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faith + 1 [question for bible beleivers]

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posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Drzava
 


Bible is a lesson plan. I've talked to someone in the big man's business (made a deal with God, not the devil) and I've seen dead relatives. One time, I was on the computer, and the room where my grandmother died made a distinctive scream. No one was home, and I swear to this day it was her voice. I ran out of the house and took a walk. It happens like once a week now and I've normalized to her cries form the other side. She was a vile woman who hated life and all things, but I think she is happy and didn't go to hell. Just for laughs, one time she said to my mother " YOU SON OF A BITCH, I WISH YOU WERE NEVER BORN!!!! Why am I here? I want to go home! I'm calling the cops on you if you don't let me call a cab. LET ME GO HOME!" - My grandmother after she broke her hip and was living her last month of life.

In all irony, the last words I heard her say were " OHHH, SON OF A BITCH". That was the night she died in her sleep. She said those words squirming in bed in pain due to her medicine. Great sadness. But it's people like her I know God exists because she simple did not go into death silently. She went out cursing and in hatred of life, but still faithful and waiting for the afterlife.

[edit on 28-11-2007 by Gorman91]




posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Here is an interesting study of scripture with the use of a computer, The Infinite Book

As for the 6000 year time line in scripture, this was derived by Bishop Ulsser and adding the who begat whom dates. It did not take into account that biblical time is not set in the Greeco - Roman system but by patriarchal time line. There can be hundreds to even thousands of years between patriarchs. Thus the 6000 years postulated by Bishop Ulsser is invalid. However, time is not the issue, did or did not the events happen as stated in scripture? With even a small amount of research the answer is Yes they did.

In regards to faith, we all have faith in something. Every time you put your key in the ignition of your car or motorcycle you have faith that it will start. However in the case of the car or bike, sooner or later it will let us down and not start. In the case of God, He never fails.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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Got a perfect example of the above. I made a deal with God once that I would give 20 dollars to a person in need on the spot when I was a kid. This was in exchange for a 90-100 on a test I new jack crap about. Just then, a kid came up to me asking for money to buy milk. I gave the kid 20 bucks on the spot and smiled away. I got an 89 I think. It's ironic, I know, but I think it was God telling me that monetary means alone won't win his respect.

Ok, so maybe that doesn't prove anything to the above post, but it does show GOd's lesson teaching abilities. I DID get a 90+ on the next test when I studied.

[edit on 28-11-2007 by Gorman91]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Rigel
6 is primal organised reality. 1 is God. Their relation takes place in/as human history. Which is by the way 6000 yrs old, give or take centuries...


...no, give or take a few millenia.
we've been around for about 130,000 years.


Good morning Madness. I knew that we would agree on something someday, OK, give or take a few thousand years.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Rigel
 


depends on how you define history.
if it starts with the first writings, you're right

if it starts with the first artifacts, it's quite a bit off



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


So am I right.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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I'm gong with madness on this one. (Holy crap, me agreeing with him?)

Earth is billions of years old, Humans millions. The Bible didn't even use the Roman calendar (no Romans around in 6000 BC, Der!) They used something else.

Riddle me this. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, then why does Egyptian history go back to 10,000. Why are there Mexican crystals 100,000 years old. Why are there fossils in caves, completely sealed off and un effected by outside carbon, with Carbon dates millions of years old?

Exactly.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by Gorman91]



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by Rigel
 


depends on how you look at things, i tend to consider history as the first evidence that we were doing specific things and leaving traces of it, not when we were recording it specifically.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Rigel
 


depends on how you look at things, i tend to consider history as the first evidence that we were doing specific things and leaving traces of it, not when we were recording it specifically.


Well, you can also consider that you are the King of the World.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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Wow.

Thanks to the OP I have finally realized that my beliefs were untenable. Unfortunately he only postulated that I was either blind or willfully remaining ignorant. He/She left out the possibility of both being true.

Boy, I'm so happy that a barely literate, disrespectful, supercilious, condescending poster such as yourself has opened my eyes.


Eric



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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Ok, I've already postes my question to Rigel with no response, so alas.

Onto the next.

Madness, if your going to use history as a context to disprove religion, riddle me this. Why exactly did the Syrian, Indian, and other heretic churches pop up before the Romans ever even heard of Christianity. It was but 30 years after Jesus died and resurrected that the Indian church was formed. I highly doubt a group of 20-30 foreigner preachers could simply walk in and claim something, then have a group follow them, just because. They got no money in return, and only preached what they believed. If, according to you other posts, Jesus never was, why would this group sail half way across their known world just to preach from a few memories. Not even a Bible, as this was before that.

Why?

And if you try to say it's made up, this was pre-Western church. There was no Pope directing things, no one. Just a group a guys going around



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069

If these things are true, we must find a different interpretation of the book that makes sense in a figurative way that supports our faith. If we are basing faith on physical presumptions, we will not make it.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by ben91069]


Daniel Quinn, in his excellent novel Ishmael, offers this alternate interpretation of the bible you want to see.

I'd recommend everyone read it, it's worth it.


"A culture is a people enacting a story"


In the book, it is explained that the account of Genesis is a retelling of how humanity has fallen. Not literally from eating an apple from a forbidden tree (those who 'debunk' useing crap like that is hilarious), but because our ancestors decided that they knew better than nature what should live and what should die (the knowledge of good and evil).

Mankind decided that we knew wether the fox or the grasshopper should die today, and that we were capable of running the planet with this forbidden 'knowledge'. The lesson is that we can't, we are incapable. That is the message in Genesis.

We will continue to be 'fallen people' until we out our lives and the life of the planet back into the hands of mother nature. When we learn that other nature and/or God is better at running the planet than we are.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


I said I believe - or/so know - that Earth was created 6000 yrs ago " symbolically", or even "hyperbolically". Words that are etymologically opposed to the "Diable" (fr.)/ "Devil" (eng.) > Dia-Bolein (greek).

The Skeptic : " Hey man, how can you believe that Adam was created from mud by a God who blew air in his nostrils" ?
The Believer : " Because Bible is not a supermarket bill".

You're welcome Gorman91 : ask clearly, then receive...


[edit on 30-11-2007 by Rigel]



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 07:32 PM
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Let me just add this here.. Mind you IM jumping right in before reading the whole thread..
But the people who fight for God make me wanna freakin puke..

You murder, you lie and maim young children.. You pay money to the wacko loonies in charge, and claim you are all good people..

You will rot in hell as far as I can see..

Yeah you might be a good person.. But when you fight for God, you are really fighting for the devil.. Dont you see that yet???

OR do more people have to die in Gods name for you to belive it?



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Karlhungis
 


LOL, I love that episode, it's so retarded.

"you died for my life/ and you know that I would die for you, Right?/ What's the matter baby/ you're trembling Jesus baby."

Damn that Cartman lol.

P.S. to the original poster. It's believer not "beleiver." Learn to spell lol.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by thehumbleone]



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Rigel
 


You couldn't have put it in a more un-understanding way.

The bible doesn't use the Julianic calendar, so how can you say it is accurate?



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 11:51 PM
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To drzava -


can i ask?u have faith god is real and all that stuff right?but, there is enough proof to debunk at least the bible.so i ask u bible beleivers, are u blind, or u just dont wanna see?why do u still have faith, when someboy proves u the bible is crap lies?why do u have faith is something fictional why???


Dude, you just lack understanding.


The Bible contains enough scientific facts for me to wonder with awe:

1. Characteristics of a comet
2. Solar flares and sun spots
3. Ozone layer depletion
4. Islands moving due to a big earthquake
5. Underwater volcanoes
6. Limnic eruptions
7. Red Rain or Blood Rain due to volcanic ashes
8. Biological effect of concentrated carbon dioxide in the human body
9. Waters turning to blood due to the iron oxide plume from underwater volcanoes.
10. Lava Bombs aka Hail fire
11. Tsunamis
12. Kingtides due to the close proximity of the moon at perigee called the perigean spring tides
13. Volcanic ashes turning the day into pitch darkness
14. Volcanic lightnings
15. Atmosphere being literally cooked due to solar wind energy
16. Biofuel
17. Solar and Lunar Eclipses
18. The Black Hole

Modern Vehicles:

1. Submarine
2. Space Shuttle
3. Military Space Station

---

Some of the facts above are recent findings. The Bible is way ahead before men discovered these scientific facts.

The Bible contains both faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence. In fact, so that you believe.

Any questions? I'm happy to expound more.

[edit on 1-12-2007 by amitheone]



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Rigel
 


You couldn't have put it in a more un-understanding way.

The bible doesn't use the Julianic calendar, so how can you say it is accurate?



Are you takin to Rigel ?

Jewish year is 5767, dude.

More when you'll be more polite.

And don't forget not to believe every ATS fellow's claim.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Rigel
Well, you can also consider that you are the King of the World.


this isn't an issue of my personal beliefs... it's just an issue of how you're going to define a single word.

anyway, main point stands that the bible is flat out wrong in some places.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



If you get by science paradigm, you have to follow it by taking one thing for what it is comonly defined as it ; and history is universally admitted as begining with the use of some "alphabet".

But still, your Bible view is pointless. "When the wise man shows the moon, the fool watch the finger...". Contradictions in Bible are not contradictions, as much as a spherical geometry seems non logical when projected on a 2d plane. See Riemann, Lobatchevsky and Poincaré's works.

Now, as for science, it is "flat out wrong" until it's not... In 1959, a poll * asked scientists what was the age of the universe according to them. You know what ? The two third gave the same answer : Universe never began as greeks philosophers have taught this to us : it's just eternal... Some years later, the big-bang sound was discovered... So those sheeps began to change their views... Just to so join the biblical truth.

[* source : "Scientific american", quoted by Gerald Schroeder, atom specialist, MIT professor... ]


Edit to add :

www.geraldschroeder.com...
www.sciencefindsgod.com...

Help yourself by now...



[edit on 1-12-2007 by Rigel]



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