British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

reply to post by Odium


You must have missed my previous question, it's quite a simple one to answer really.

Do you have children of your own? I'd really like to know.

reply to post by kangjia57


obey the law of the land you are in, we in the free west (just about still, in the face of elitist demands for more control) can call mohammed anything we want, FACT, same way we can with Jesus, FACT!


Remember you said you obey the laws of the land you are in, remember that, or, if you lose the desire to put economic benefit ahead of your shariah fest, toosh off to Sudan



[edit on 5-12-2007 by blueorder]

Originally posted by Odium
Grenade, the law doesn't work how it is. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many under age mothers.

So come on, how are we going to enforce age legislation in reguards to age of consent? Please tell us the answer.

Yes, lets all convert to Islam then its a clear cut case of if shes old enough to bleed shes old enough to breed. I dont mean to be so callous but thats what it boils down to? This will not stop young mothers from having kids it will only remove the underage tag from their name.

Crimes go unpunished everyday, if a murder is commited but the culprit is not caught does that render the law useless? And if a report of underage sex is provided to the police they must, as a duty, investigate the matter. I realise the number 16 is just that a number, however to protect our children it is the most effective way to stop this plague. If a man is spotted kissing a 14 year old questions will be asked, in your world as long as she consents and understands what this means then its fine.

Do you have children of your own? I think this question is entirely relevant to this conversation. At 16 children in Britain have completed mandatory education at high school and have the ability to leave home. This could be a contributing factor as to why the age limit is 16. Simple fact is school kids should be learning about sex/std's etc. not having it/them.

Originally posted by Chemicalbrother
reply to post by Odium

 

You must have missed my previous question, it's quite a simple one to answer really.

Do you have children of your own? I'd really like to know.

I do believe I asked you first. :-)

So please, answer my question.

What's the solution to underage sex? Since the current age of consent laws aren't being enforced and can't be. :-)

reply to post by Odium


I think Chris Hansen is waiting for you to have a seat with him and discuss a few things.

reply to post by Odium


Why ask rhetorical questions? Clearly there is no definitive answer to this. However, the current law in place will for example deter a 40 year old man who likes young girls from sleeping with one who is fond of him. If the parents found out this type of relationship they would report it, as would any decent citizen. These laws empower parents to report what is essentially abuse of their child.

So the answer to your question is : we already have a law in place which when reported leads to the prosecution of anyone deemed to have broken it.

All laws are broken everyday, this is a fact of life, not all culprits are caught however the average law abiding citizen will respect them. No-one can stop young kids having sex if they so choose however it does give parents an avenue if they feel thier child is being exploited by an older man.

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by Odium

 

I think Chris Hansen is waiting for you to have a seat with him and discuss a few things.

ROFL. I tend to agree, the opinions voiced by Odium are worrying to say the least.

Now that i have answered your question Odium can you please answer mine? Do you have children of your own?

Grenade - you seem to miss the point.

The Police will not try to enforce consent legislation. They think it is a waste of time. Look at the number of teenage mothers in the United Kingdom, there are more per-year then people investigated for having sex with underage people.

Clearly, that means even when someone has been having sex. It can be proven they are having sex. You can find out who the father is. The Police do not care.

I remember watching day time T.V. a few weeks back and there was a man in his 50's who was with a 16 year old. They had a 6 month old child as well. It was on one of those day time TV shows. Nothing was done about him.

Pedophilis can go on T.V. in this country and brag about what they do.

(Also, you are not reading my posts.) The point about when women entering pubity was for older societies, not contemporary societies. Although it does raise questions:
Why is the body of the woman in question saying it is ready to have children?

I would much rather live in a society, where by people who:
Consume alcohol, have sex, smoke, drive, etcetera, are mature enough to do this because at the minute (with the exception of driving) they don't work.

The reason driving works, is because of experience but also because people have to learn before they can do it.

I would rather, that prior to someone having sex they understand the risks. I don't desire to see a 10 year old having sex, nor do I desire to see a 16 year old having sex and not understanding her/his actions.

You can't deny that underage children are having sex. Clearly, the U.K. has a problem and you aren't trying to solve it.

What's your solution to curb underage children having sex?
How do you plan to make the laws enforceable?

As for my child, it died several years ago when my partner miscarried. But we plan to try again soon, once I am done with my Masters/PHD which I plan to start next year.

Originally posted by Grenade
Now that i have answered your question Odium can you please answer mine? Do you have children of your own?

It doesn't matter one way or the other, I'm sure he knows where you're going with the question and will just tell you that if his children had a good working knowledge of sex, then it would be their choice if they wanted to have sex with a 40 year old man, right Odium?

What Really lost me is how is underageness have anything to do with a teacher that faced 40 lash's and has now returned home. I think this topic has lost it's place some how and is dead Just seems to have gone into a bi** fest.

Least that's how am reading it

reply to post by SE7EN


The teddy bear thing left the building a long time ago, lol. Not much further to run that into the ground, so it's kinda a fluid thread now.

Originally posted by Odium
Grenade - you seem to miss the point.


As for my child, it died several years ago when my partner miscarried. But we plan to try again soon, once I am done with my Masters/PHD which I plan to start next year.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

reply to post by Odium


I think you are missing my point. The logistics involved in DNA testing every new born baby to an underage mother are impossible. Not to mention the human rights violation of baby and mother.

The current system allows parents or good samaritans to report underage sex. I will say again when there is a report filed the police must investigate the matter. I feel this system is adequate and i have no intention of trying to change the law.

If i found my daughter was having sex at 15 with a boy around the same age i would discuss the matter with her and probably not report it. So in essence this law isnt down to the police to enforce, it is up to parents and the public. This also allows for your theory that is a child is mature enough and under the right circumstances the 16 year old rule can be broken. However, rather than a social worker it should be the job of the parents to ensure their child is not being exploited. The law gives them the power to prosecute if they feel this is the case.

With people like yourself who feel it is a silly law in the first place it makes it even more difficult.

I am also sorry to hear of your loss. Please accept my condolancies and good luck in the future.

Originally posted by Chemicalbrother

Originally posted by Odium
Grenade - you seem to miss the point.


As for my child, it died several years ago when my partner miscarried. But we plan to try again soon, once I am done with my Masters/PHD which I plan to start next year.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Don't be, I'm fine with it mate.

The point I am making here, is that age of consent has no importance in this society.

People break this law, you can see it flaunted on Sky T.V. on shows like Trisha, Jeremy Kyle, etcetera. The Police can't do anything about it unless the child is willing to say something. How often are they doing to do that? Not very often.

The only time the Police can act without the child pressing charges is in the event, there is proof - text messages online or over a mobile phone, if the child is deemed "unfit/unable" to understand what has happened (less then 10 years old).

Let me explain it like this:
Parents go to the Police, saying their daughter is having sex with a 50 year old man.
This man is brought in for questionning as is the girl.
They both deny it.
The man isn't on the sex offenders register.
The Police will drop the investigation.

There's nothing they can do.

So instead, the Police test the child. If they understand what they are doing, that sex can result in pregnancy, sexual health risks, contraception. It's better than someone who is 16 having sex and not understanding the risks.

I'll try and find a report, but I did see one published saying roughly 40% of girls will have sex prior to being 16 now.

There's a problem and honestly, if you can come up with a better solution then please do. I don't want to see children being taken advantage of, I don't want to see adults getting taken advantage of either. But people just go:

There's a law. It is all alright!

When in reality, if nobody will enforce the law it's a wasted law.

Think about this for a minute.
You have X amount of teenage mothers, who got pregnant under age.
You have Y amount of people in prison for sleeping with underage girls.

If X and Y do not match, then there's clearly evidence of the Police not enforcing the legislation in place. If the Police won't or can't enforce a law, that law then needs to be reworked.

reply to post by Grenade


Grenade a large part of the problem though is parents who do not care. The rate of domestic violence and abuse in this country is insane. Here are the numbers:

The British Crime Survey for the year 2001-2 reported, "There were an estimated 12.9 million incidents of domestic violence acts (nonsexual threats or force) against women [84%] and 2.5 million against men [16%] in England and Wales in the year prior to interview." The same report states, "Four per cent of women and two per cent of men were subject to domestic violence (non-sexual domestic threats or force) during the last year."

In the United Kingdom, the police estimate that around 35% of domestic violence against women is actually reported and a 2002 Women's Aid study found that 74% of separated women suffered from post-separation violence.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

You seem like a good parent, but the problem is many aren't.

So you need to base laws around that.

Nobody in their right mind, will think that a child of 10 is ready to have sex. Thus the Police even under my laws would investigate this. However, it should be based on the teenagers understanding and not just a magic number. The reason we have such a problem is partially because we treat teenagers like idiots.

We have to understand, that now there's a large social pressure on children to engage in sex. With the fact so many are going out and taking drugs, alcohol, etcetera, it makes it even more common. If we engaged teenagers as young adults and made them realise we'd respect their choices a lot would change.

I don't desire to see anyone who isn't ready being abused, sexually, mentally, economically. But unless we take a long look into these laws, there's so little that can be done.

Honestly, the Police won't do anything if you told them you think your daughter is having sex. If she says she isn't. That's a problem we need to find a solution to.

I'm desperately trying to avoid the nonsense here about underage sex.
So let post something that has a "Bear"ing on the case.

The dynamics of the Teddy Bear Intifada still fascinate me.

When I first heard news reports of the riots going on in Sudan due to the moniker The teacher gave the bear, It was downplayed by the media as a "small group of hotheads" as reported by the BBC's Amber Henshaw.

Similarly, Jeffrey Gettleman of the New York Times downplayed the intensity of incensed locals, stating, "Aside from a large gathering outside the presidential palace, most of Khartoum was quiet,"

They seemed to make a conscience effort to downplay what what was taking place.

Then more reports show up now estimating that the "small crowd" was really thousands, some even claim upward to 10,000 rioters & protesters, many calling for her death.

We all know that in a volatile situation like this, all it takes is a spark to ignite a wave of violence.

Should those responsible for inciting this violence be held accountable? Whether they be clerics, politicians, or both? I think so. Will they? I think not.
[edit on 5-12-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Sparky63]

Reply to Grenade

Can you find any unbiased articles or provide your own thoughts on the great man and his history?

I will provide you with my own thoughts on the great man. The man because of whom more than 1bil Muslims exist today.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a very merciful man. He loved everyone and never hated anyone. His aim was just to guide humans and make them understand who the real God is. He always worried about the people and prayed to Allah to keep guiding his Ummah (his people) in future. He will intercede for us on the day of judgement if our sins are greater than good deeds and save us from the hellfire. He was always kind and polite to people who even insulted and threatened to kill him. Many times the angels came and said to him if you want we will destroy whoever denies you and Allah and we will combine the mountains and crush their cities. But he (peace be upon him) said to the angles I have been send as a mercy to the world, not to destroy it.This just shows how forgiveful was the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

reply to post by Sparky63


Wouldn't the reasons for 'up-playing' the size of that group of hot-heads make for a more interesting topic?

Don't believe everything you read or hear on the news. Over-dramatizing events makes for better ratings.

Should those responsible for inciting this violence be held accountable?

Yes. And the source of the spark has been identified, Sparky.
Grudge Sparked Teddy Bear Crisis

Given that Allah on the Islamic side and God on the Christian side are the same deity, the question needs to be asked - whats the difference between the religions?

The difference is the interpretations of men. Its not divine will. Its someones idea of what divine will should be.

As such its highly subjective, open to abuse, fanaticism and extremism.

And this is where I have a problem with both religions - because, lets face it, if a "divine" being wanted us to act in a perfect manner, all the time, all it would need to do is make it so, and it wouldn't need to put any spin on it.

If thats not the case, and the "divine" entity feels that people need to be tested and punished, then to me its in it for the sport, in which case, by definition, its not "divine"

You see - no one on this planet is better than anyone else, mo matter where they come from and what they believe in. The last time someone tried to force such an issue was during Hitlers brand of personality-cult facism in WW2, and look what happened there.

Originally posted by neformore
If thats not the case, and the "divine" entity feels that people need to be tested and punished, then to me its in it for the sport, in which case, by definition, its not "divine"

That is a very interesting idea.

In Islam:

And we will surely test you with some fear, hunger and shortages of property, people and produce. But give good tidings to the steadfast. Those who, when a calamity befalls them say: "We belong to Allah and to Him we return." Upon these are prayers from their Lord and mercy and these are the rightly-guided ones.
Al-Baqarah: 155-157

Christianity:

(James 1:13-14) 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

There is a vast difference in the two.