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British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

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posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Do you expect other that come to the west to integrate? I've seen that more than once in this thread.

What about the other way? Hmm. Interesting question?




posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by planetfall
 


Preaching to the converted.

I am more than aware of extreme interpretations of Islam and Sharia Law.
The problem is that these extremists are growing in influence and moderate Muslims are more and more afraid to speak out against them, thus giving them more and more influence and attract more followers.



what to do, what to do...

Islam: What Can be Done?




Islam is like a virus. It radiates from Muslim countries that are too diseased to support it and into healthy systems that are that way because they have had the luxury of developing apart from Islam. Once in the host system, the Islam virus uses the existing machinery to make replicas of itself. Over time, the host makes unilateral concessions to the religion, feeding and appeasing it in the vain hope that it can be pacified.

Vital organs are co-opted and eventually shut down as Islam advances. In a matter of time, the entire system groans to an agonizing death and assumes the condition of the diseased nations from which Muslims originally fled. The virus then looks for new hosts to cannibalize.

Some Westerners, particularly those with children (and an investment in the future), are far-sighted enough to see where current trends eventually lead. Though many Muslims are decent people, the religion itself always has a way of bringing the radicals along with it. The radicals then infest and influence the mainstream, and the rest of society pays the cost.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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First, let’s go over what shouldn’t be done about Islam.

1) Do NOT hurt Muslims. Westerners generally don’t have a problem with this anyway, and have shown remarkable restraint in the wake of horrendous terror attacks. Bottom line: You don’t know any terrorists. The Muslims that you know in your private life are not terrorists. Don’t harm them or protect anyone who does.

2) Do NOT harass Muslims. The Muslims that you know personally are probably not much different than you are. They have the same concerns for their children’s future and the same interests in getting ahead in life. They do not deserve to be harassed on account of a religion that they probably either don’t understand all that well or may not even believe too sincerely anyway.

3) Do NOT vandalize the property of Muslims. (Same reasons. Grow up.)

4) Do NOT desecrate the Qur’an (such as using a piece of bacon as a bookmark). It doesn’t accomplish anything other than to give radicals another reason to play the victim, get angry and, perhaps, hurt someone. It’s also juvenile and offensive. Treat the Qur’an the way that you would prefer Muslims treat whatever book that you consider sacred.




posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Muslim extremists frequently protest and march here in my country.
Muslim extremists frequently demand the introduction of Sharia Law here in my country.
Muslim extremists are not prosecuted for any of these.

I believe that if anyone is prepared to contribute positively to my country then should be allowed to live as they please and believe in what they want to believe in.
Just don't free load and sponge and don't try to impose your opinions on me.

Some Muslims integrate more than others.

There are no go areas in Britain for Whites, which police tolerate.
There aren't any no go areas for Muslims in Britain and if there was then the police would act immediately.

Just who is being marginalised in British society?



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:08 PM
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Hi There,


I maintain that Islam is a scourge of humanity and will hold the entire (human?) race back from progress, especially if practised properly by its followers.


I tend to find myself nodding in agreement with a number of points you make in your postings, but I would suggest a more accurate cristicism would be to lump religious extremism under the title of 'fundamentalism', for it is the 'desire' of the zealot that drives extremism. Fundamentalism is the scourge of humanity, for it is expressed on the platforms of all human expression, and is often not responded to with a equity of rightful villification. Let us not point to one extreme expression of belief, but to all extreme beliefs, not just in the religious sphere, but also in the politico-socio-philosophical spheres, too.

Thus, to say that Islam in general is a 'scourge of humanity' is to lump all its followers into the general consensus of your own opinion...which is unfair, and patently untrue. Not all followers of Islam hold to the same fanatical twisted tenets of their creed. I would certainly like to see a critical response from the more moderate followers, and indeed, such has been given many times, but I've also seen non-islamics rationalise the rightness of the Sudaneses authorities in many ways that condemn the teacher's actions, as if it was entirely her own fault through ignorance. To be honest, this rattles me more than the the actions of the Sudanese, because these kind of criticisms come from a number of her own compatriots, from whom you do not expect to see criticism registered, but more of a conscienable support.

What the Sudanese (religious) authorities have done with their treatment of this woman, is to take a mere spark out of their own sense of outrage and stoked it into a conflagarated blaze of condemnation upon themselves, but in true fundamentalistic verve, have pinned the blame for their incitement of the religious hatred they have brought upon themselves entirely upon the teacher.

Langauge tends to fall short of the required expression to bring a comprehension to minds such as these, our cultures are indeed so alien to each other that I doubt in all sincerity, their capability to fully cement a workable and lasting peace between them. Events such as these will continue in the future to plague our conscious and conscience; two required attributes fundamentalists do not possess to create a peaceful world. This much I take as a understanding of the problems that beset us all, but answers...I have none.

Best wishes



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:17 PM
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You do know that your own Magna Carta(which we basec OUR freadoms on) gives you the right to be armed, don't you???
Just because your government took that right away, does not mean that you should not have the right.
Yes, you CAN get a gun, but you cannot keep it at your house, or use it for self defence(which is WHY the Magna Carta give you the right in the first place).



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd


I'd rather have 10 moderately experienced women than 72 virgins. I'm forgetting. Let them know we will NOT stand for that crap. Period.


How about 1 good hooker?



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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Intrepid,
Do us a favor and answer the question, your a "Super Mod" You should know better then to throw out Half Answers. I know you do not want to find your self agreeing in any kind of way to certain posts, but the question on the table was.

Do you think she deserved to be arrested and was this a fair judgment. Considering the the info you have on the story and the fact, this was named after a child and the children voted for it.

Thanks



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom


You hit the nail on the head. Lets examine the status of most Islam-dominant countries...most are third-world or less, with most of the population starving, or struggling to even have clean water and food.

Let's now look at predominantly "Christian" countries...

Oh what? Most are European or North American? And all of those are considered "1st world"?

These people in these countries with Islam as their religion are doing what they have to do, having been given the lot they were cast.

Terrorism and barbarism are desperate acts by desperate people.

Lets examine why these people feel so desperate to be heard/taken seriously, and then we can make progress.

If we as a species should have learned ONE DANG THING from the 20th century--it's that wars of ideals can NEVER be won and only cause endless forms of misery, death and suffering.

[edit on 26-11-2007 by MystikMushroom]


But what is the REASON that they are third-world or worse???
Could it be BECAUSE they are Islan domanated?
The Muslam world used to be on of the most advance in the world... Then they let Islan come to domanate every part of their lives and they have never realy advanced since.

Even in the 'bad' times, many Cristian prests were scientists, because the church FUNDED research so that people could better understand God's creation.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Do you think she deserved to be arrested and was this a fair judgment. Considering the the info you have on the story and the fact, this was named after a child and the children voted for it.

Thanks


Damn man, do you guys read what I post? NO, I don't think she should have been arrested. I'm sitting here in Canada though. I'm not in the Sudan. Do I know what it's like there? Do you? Is it the same for Muslims in the rest of the world?

I've seen this issue used to castigate 1 billion people though. I'll stand up against that. I've know religious Muslims in my personal and professional life and they were cool. To see them bitchslapped JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS is wrong. I'm not saying you're doing this but there are some here, due to ignorance, that are though.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 






but I've also seen non-islamics rationalise the rightness of the Sudaneses authorities in many ways that condemn the teacher's actions, as if it was entirely her own fault through ignorance.

To be honest, this rattles me more than the the actions of the Sudanese, because these kind of criticisms come from a number of her own compatriots, from whom you do not expect to see criticism registered, but more of a conscienable support.


Yes I don't understand this either,



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
How about 1 good hooker?




You don't have to go to heaven for that my friend....just the clinic after.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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Intrepid I understand your point, I know some followers of Allah intimately,
should I say Allah and intimate in the same sentence? har.
anyway,

If they had to choose between your friendship or their god who do you think they would chose?

Goes for Christians too.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
If we have to stop enemy we can go to any extent to stop them.


Can I ask you a few questions?

1. Most of your Sharia laws are for Muslins, and so do you feel that non-Muslins should be forced to follow them too?

2. Are these laws to ensure your soul goes to the right place or are they the control the population.

3. If they are mainly to preserve your soul then how do non-Muslins really play into all of this?

4. If a person totally hated Sharia laws would it be ok for that person to hate the muslin religion as a whole too?

5. If a person thought that Sharia laws were preventing major human rights would it be ok to fight to stop them?

6. Is anyone that does not follow Sharia law basically considered the enemy?

One of the reasons I ask these questions is because the extreme side of these Sharia laws are basically against much of the western world’s moral code. This is not saying the west is better or worse, but the west most definitely disagrees with them.

Is there away to separate the muslin religion from Sharia laws or are they one and the same. If they are one and the same then the point that many try to make that only a small percent of Muslins are dangerous is totally incorrect and would in fact be all who accepts Sharia laws as their binding law on everyone and so this would mean the majority of the Muslin community.

One last question…If you had a daughter and she married a non-muslin in secret would you kill both of them?


[edit on 29-11-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Xtrozero
How about 1 good hooker?




You don't have to go to heaven for that my friend....just the clinic after.


That would make a great rock song,"Hookers In Heaven" maybe rap.

How about grambo?

Let's tell them i will be there, then they will all turn to buddhism,


Music and humor, to heal the planet,

and strippers, send them pole dancers, give them something to do,


[edit on 053030p://bThursday2007 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 053030p://bThursday2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


I think that most people have been expressing disgust at the actions of Muslim extremists and fundamentalists, not Muslims per se.
If people cannot differentiate well......

What disgusts me is the number of apologists who have tried to excuse this barbaric behaviour and the lack of compassion and consideration for Mrs Gibbons and her entire family.
It seems that people are more concerned with trying not to offend Muslim sensibilities rather than show sympathy for a woman who was quite admirably trying to teach children in an alien environment.


[edit on 29-11-2007 by Freeborn]



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
If they had to choose between your friendship or their god who do you think they would chose?

Goes for Christians too.


Why would they have to? Why would we have to? It doesn't have to be a "you against me" thing. That's the media's creation. Regardless of what some say here, we CAN coexist.



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Muslim extremists frequently protest and march here in my country.


Thats because its a free country, and they are allowed to as long as they do so peacefully



Muslim extremists frequently demand the introduction of Sharia Law here in my country.


Thats because they exercise their freedom of speech, which we all seem to agree is a basic human right.



Muslim extremists are not prosecuted for any of these.


Considering its perfectly legal for them to do it, thats no suprising, is it?



I believe that if anyone is prepared to contribute positively to my country then should be allowed to live as they please and believe in what they want to believe in.


Thats fair enough.




Just don't free load and sponge and don't try to impose your opinions on me.


And that was where you introduced a completely irrelevant point, which you then went on and to try and justify it with



Some Muslims integrate more than others.


Of which the same can be said of Jews, Catholics, Buddhists, Mormons etc.



There are no go areas in Britain for Whites, which police tolerate.


I've yet to see one, and I've worked in the inner cities of Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford and Leeds. In fact the only thing close to a "no go area" I've ever come across was just outside Toxteth in Liverpool, which was a predominantly white area where two rival gangs were fighting across an estate.

What I've found is that if you go about your business and aren't looking for problems or have an attitude, people treat you just fine. Personally I wouldn't go walking around Hulme in Manchester after 9pm for fear of getting shot, but thats because there is a drug and gang war going on there, which is nothing to do with race/religion or colour and is all to do with profits.



Just who is being marginalised in British society?


Its a good question. Its got nothing to do with this thread at all..... but its a good question nontheless.

However, despite what you seem to think the muslim population makes up 2.7% of the British Population according to the 2001 Census. Thats 1.5 million out of a population of 60 million people. , or to put it another way, 97.3% of the UK population is NOT muslim. I fail to see how you can claim 58.5 million people...the majority...are being marginalised.

Anyway....nice distraction.

BTW. She hasn't been whipped, which is what the initial outcry was about, so all is well, is it not?



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
If they had to choose between your friendship or their god who do you think they would chose?

Goes for Christians too.


Why would they have to? Why would we have to? It doesn't have to be a "you against me" thing. That's the media's creation. Regardless of what some say here, we CAN coexist.


Intrepid, Intrepid, Intrepid, I am not saying it is a you against me thing, they are.

I don't know why people do this to one another, If I did I would be god.

but they will chose



posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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it is the nature of the beast,

It is tribal/survival instinct, it is warped, we are warped,

except me.



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