British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

reply to post by planetfall


I understand exactly what you are getting at ....its not about the people or religion ...its the culture... ...the culture / mentality that allows these things to happen !"...if we accept this and walk away and just forget...we have forgotten our humanity...and just taken another step to accepting another oppressive stage in humankinds developmet...

Personally I think its all very silly....we are on the edge of environmentally dangerous events...crap will happen in our lifetimes,,,

Its alright having a NWO a global Islamic state.....but the crap that is on its way..is going to make it difficult for anyone to govern !!

Off topic ..sorry !!

reply to post by elysiumfire

Well, it just gets better, doesn't it? In charging Ms Gibbons the Sudanese have actually made a crime out of the act of naming a teddy bear!

Ain't that the truth.

reply to post by 27jd

I cannot honestly believe I'm reading ANY defense of this at all, on ANY grounds.

MY thoughts as well.

Even a vast number of Islamic posters at another site are appalled.

Okay, time for me to wade in here. I just saw a photo of this woman. Is she a Moslem? If not, the government is wrong, especially since it was the children who chose the name.

This is just more evidence that the world has gone absolutely barking mad.

Originally posted by PrplHrt

This is just more evidence that the world has gone absolutely barking mad.

Well I cant really say gone mad, I think it was already mad, with all the mad people out there, but its also a good beautiful world, there is still good things, people and beauty, thats what keeps the rest sane

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

I cannot honestly believe I'm reading ANY defense of this at all, on ANY grounds.

MY thoughts as well.
Even a vast number of Islamic posters at another site are appalled.

Right - same thoughts I had on the situation back a year ago (that has now turned to even worse) concerning a woman in Saudi who got sentenced to lashings because she was gang raped. But there are sick bastards here just like there are sick bastards in these barbaric countries. The comments you can find on this board show that stepping over the line to inhumane treatment for the sake of dogma shows that all it takes is some undetermined percent of brain cell loss, and you're there - I'm supposing. I was warned on that thread for calling the proponents of such behavior soup-drooling, egg-sucking, booger-picking, knuckle-dragging neanderthals...same applies here, so I'll wait for my red badge of courage.


[edit on 11-28-2007 by Valhall]

Weather this woman is innocent or guilty it makes no difference.

The law is Petty at best & the Punishment barbaric.

Now all you peeps out there know how we Aussies felt about Chapelle Corby. (most people would tell any aussie who complained to bugger off & live with it). A little different now its a British woman isn't it..lol

"Life in prison, side by side with terrorists & murderers", for a misdeminer.
Mabe Chapelle was gulity, mabe she wasn't. But the sentence just did not fit the crime.

This is Islamic law!!!

This is how they think, their values on human life & their warped sence of justice.

Why can't all the islamic countries out there follow the example of countries like Jordan & get up to the 21st century with the rest of us.


[edit on 11/28/2007 by Ironclad]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by avingard

 

Yes we can be outraged and can complain and post at will about it because in our nation this is allowed and encouraged.

But in the middle east, is their laws, their religion their culture and their believes.

...

We need to stop sensationalizing everything that is coming out of the middle east like is a terrorist attack on the making when it comes to how they used the laws in their nation.

Changes only comes willingly not forced.

How is this being sensationalized? They are unfairly and grossly over-punishing a woman who came to their country to help them.

Like I said before, I agree a guest should respect their hosts to a point, but the woman obviously meant no offense and probably wasn't aware she was doing anything wrong. This is a clash of cultures and in order for both sides to be able to move on there has to be compromise.

How exactly is this being treated like a terrorist attack in the making? People are reacting with anger because this is wrong.

You didn't answer my question. If you were at someone's house and made a slight mistake, say, pet their dog, and they were extremely offended by it and wanted to beat you for it, would you accept it as just a different set of beliefs and take the beating?

Originally posted by avingard

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by avingard

 

Yes we can be outraged and can complain and post at will about it because in our nation this is allowed and encouraged.

But in the middle east, is their laws, their religion their culture and their believes.

...

We need to stop sensationalizing everything that is coming out of the middle east like is a terrorist attack on the making when it comes to how they used the laws in their nation.

Changes only comes willingly not forced.

How is this being sensationalized? They are unfairly and grossly over-punishing a woman who came to their country to help them.

Like I said before, I agree a guest should respect their hosts to a point, but the woman obviously meant no offense and probably wasn't aware she was doing anything wrong. This is a clash of cultures and in order for both sides to be able to move on there has to be compromise.

How exactly is this being treated like a terrorist attack in the making? People are reacting with anger because this is wrong.

You didn't answer my question. If you were at someone's house and made a slight mistake, say, pet their dog, and they were extremely offended by it and wanted to beat you for it, would you accept it as just a different set of beliefs and take the beating?

I wouln't beat a man for petting my dog....

Petting my Girlfriend on the other hand..

I thought it might be helpful to put her punishment in perspective.

Here are a couple pics of the the type of abuse she can expect if the sentence is carried out:

Granted, I don't know if she will be lashed with a cane or a whip, but the punishment certainly does not fit the so called crime.


Word of caution, be careful googling lashing or flogging.....make sure you have your safesearch feature turned on!!!!

Those Muslims that approve of this are beneath contempt in my book.

I commend the Muslims who condemn it.
Where is the combined voices of the powerful Clerics and Imams condemning the Sudanese government and the Muslim leaders in Sudan who approve of such torture?
There should be a global outcry, but it is only a whisper...sad.


[edit on 28-11-2007 by Sparky63]

Here is an article on what it feels like to be flogged:

www.dailymail.co.uk...

But with each blow, the skin softened and the pain grew and grew to the point that my whole back felt like it was on fire.

Soon it was unbearable, but they kept coming, mostly on my left shoulder and calf. I had to summon up all my control not to move.

I didn't realise the human body could generate and tolerate such pain. I had never felt anything like it before, and I hope I will never feel anything like it again.

At about 20 I lost count because I was in too much pain, but someone else was counting each stroke out loud in Arabic.

you can read the rest yourself. It is pretty frightening. IS there nothing the British Gov't can do for her?

Originally posted by Sparky63
I thought it might be helpful to put her punishment in perspective.

Here are a couple pics of the the type of abuse she can expect if the sentence is carried out:

Granted, I don't know if she will be lashed with a cane or a whip, but the punishment certainly does not fit the so called crime.


Word of caution, be careful googling lashing or flogging.....make sure you have your safesearch feature turned on!!!!

Those Muslims that approve of this are beneath contempt in my book.

I commend the Muslims who condemn it.
Where is the combined voices of the powerful Clerics and Imams condemning the Sudanese government and the Muslim leaders in Sudan who approve of such torture?
There should be a global outcry, but it is only a whisper...sad.


[edit on 28-11-2007 by Sparky63]

If someone did this to me, I'd try to conserve my strenggth for when it was over..., then when I was able to stand, Pummel the guy with the whip, till his face resembles a bloody bowl of Porridge.

One interesting side to all this that I do not think anyone has brought up is that canning is actually considered one of their lower forms of punishment and is used for mainly small infractions.

If you only get caned then consider yourself lucky that is all you got. The Taliban would walk around and whip people right on the spot for anything they thought was against their religious laws.

Personally I care less if the person was British, American, or a local Arab for it is all the same. The bigger issue here is the extreme level their religious laws go to that basically creates a brutal world full of fear, suffering, and major violations of basic human rights.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Well, im sure any day know we will begin to hear the majority of Muslims speak out loudly and demand this stop! Im sure of it! After all majority of Muslims are against the horrible human rights issues that happen to their own people and guests of their countries around the world. Im sure they are tired of the horrible reputation that a few Muslims are creating for them.

Originally posted by neformore
OK.

Whats your final solution to this guys?

I think the punishment is absurd for the offense. Disproportionate doesn't even touch it. IF they go through with the aforementioned punishment and IF the Sudanese government does not step in, I suggest an equally absurd and disproportionate response:

1) Bring the woman back home after she receives punishment.
2) Begin the physical and mental treatment she will need in order to have a remote chance of moving on with her life.
3) Scramble a RAF bomber loaded with a tactical nuke and target the building of the governing body of the city/township who adminstered the punishment.

Sound absurd and disproportionate? It is. You may yell, scream, chastize me all you want ( I have big shoulders). Call me a bigot or whatever. I don't really care. I read the forum often. I post little. After sifting through 24 pages of people arguing about religion and worrying about being politically correct, I felt compelled to say what is on my mind. Deal with it. Later



"I'm going to switch to flaming arrows. I'm going to switch to a little FOUR WHEEL DRIVE FURY!!!!!...... There's no trucks in World of Warcraft!!" gotta love those Toyota Pickup commericals. The WoW the one with the meteor, and one with the Loch Ness monster are my favorites.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Well, im sure any day know we will begin to hear the majority of Muslims speak out loudly and demand this stop! Im sure of it! After all majority of Muslims are against the horrible human rights issues that happen to their own people and guests of their countries around the world. Im sure they are tired of the horrible reputation that a few Muslims are creating for them.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, if not then I would be willing to bet you have not lived in that part of the world. This is the main establishment that is doing this not some small rogue government official, and as I said this is not really considered a harsh punishment, so who is to complain in the Arab world. There is no reputation about this for it is their religious laws that they are following and be damn anyone that might inadvertently break one. This is the type of thing the crowd cheers on.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Well if they do go through with it...

Anyone know what Imports / Exports come into / out of Sudan..

A Good ol boycott of any of their Products & a Black ban on Selling products to em for 6 months will be disproportionate enough..

Easy enough for the guys down at the docks to refuse to load shipments bound for Sudan & unload Shipments from Sudan.

Once they have a taste of what it's like to be totally Isolated.. they will think twice & save such punishments for people who really do deserve them.

Boycotts have worked before on other countries, I don't see why it wouldn't here as well.

Originally posted by hooptie
I think the punishment is absurd for the offense. Disproportionate doesn't even touch it.

Scramble a RAF bomber loaded with a tactical nuke and target the building of the governing body of the city/township who adminstered the punishment.

So you think flogging a woman for naming a Teddy Bear is disproportionate, but you are willing to advocate using a weapon of mass destruction on the township and surrounding area to prove your point?

Sound absurd and disproportionate? It is.

Damn right.

This thread fascinates me. I see people referring to "apologists" - where are they? No one on the thread has actually said this is a good thing IF it happens. Its been pointed out that she broke their laws. Its been pointed out that she probably should have known better. Its been pointed out that no one in the West would like anyone else interferring in what they would percieve to be their laws and legal systems. Its been pointed out that Sudan is not the USA/UK/Pick western country of your choice and that they do things differently there.

No one - at all - on this thread has said that the woman deserves to be flogged.

And then theres the people who condemn this as a barbaric act but come up with the idea that it needs to be sorted out with the mass slaughter of a whole load of innocents using nuclear weaponry.

Nice that. Hypocrisy in action.

Give with one hand and take with the other.

Punish barabarism with genocide.

[edit on 29/1107/07 by neformore]

I don't think this point has been touched on yet, and if it has I apologise, but it's not just the disproportionate nature of the punishment to this crime that is an issue, it is also the fact that the Sudanese authorities are saying this is 100% deliberate on her part! They just won't say she made a slight error but they do say was her aim all along to, "incite religious hatred".

I would still not be surprised if this was all about the fact that the children VOTED on something. If Gibbons had said to her class that they couldn't use the name Muhammad I believe this would still be happening now for the same reasons and excuses.

[edit on 29/11/2007 by Muppetus Galacticus]

Don't mess with religion of "peace", in case they get violent,


We should withdraw all aid to the Sudan (not Darfur) and any other nation who indulges in shariah law.

As for those moral cowards who waffle on about all religions being like this, yeah, maybe if you get in a timewarp and toodle off to the middle ages- Islam has no comparison in the modern world.