British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Originally posted by PartChimp
Yes, there are some people here attacking Islam. There are also some here logically and coolly pointing out its irredeemable flaws. So all semantics aside, i find it curious how arduous a task Islam apologists are making this business of theirs.

Not arduous at all to deny ignorance. I've pointed it out various times in this thread alone. Broad brush stroking of 1 billion people is incorrect, so I will point it out.

I also find it interesting how a lot of people defend Islam by attacking other religions (namely Christianity, often because of transparent reasons). Cavemanish, no? Sorry. The facts are there. Keep telling yourself what you want though. I'm sure you will.

I'm not defending anything. I'm pointing out the facts. Here they are once again. 48 countries are predominently Muslim and we are getting stuff like this incident coming from but a few of those. But there are those that condemn a whole religion for the actions of a few. Btw, I haven't said anything about Christianity.

Originally posted by planetfall

venomous snakes will bite you and you will die. its the nature of the snake. i do not hate the snake, but i am aware of its tendencies.

do i want those snakes crawling free in my house? no.

is that " hatin' "?

no. its knowledge. are we all clear on this yet?

If you are going to post extensive lists of things to do with Islamics without pointing out the flaws in our culture and dragging all of those out as well then yes, thats hating. Thats not balanced. Its not impartial.

How many people were murdered and raped yesterday in our "better" society? How many dealers pushed filth on to kids? How much money was swindled out of corporate funds? How many people beat up on/abused their kids? How many peadophiles were arrested and put away?

Why don't you round up and list all of those headlines? The answer is that - simply - it doesn't suit your argument, because you would be admitting that our society is just as messed up as everyone else's is.

You asked when was the last time someone flew an airliner into a building - when was the last time an Islamic country invaded a sovereign nation 4500 miles away from it on the pretext of - at best - a completely flawed intelligence system and - at worst - a blatant lie?

You're looking at one side. Yeah, 9/11 was an atrocity, but then so is the invasion of Iraq. Which one has killed more people? Which one continues to kill more people eother directly from its original intention or from the subsequent consequences of the action?

This is knowledge. Its there and its available and everyone can see it.

Are you clear on this yet?

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm not defending anything. I'm pointing out the facts. Here they are once again. 48 countries are predominently Muslim and we are getting stuff like this incident coming from but a few of those. But there are those that condemn a whole religion for the actions of a few. Btw, I haven't said anything about Christianity.

48 and counting, france, the uk and the states are next. its systematic.

since 9/11, an attack on our economies, combined with the skyrocketing oil prices, another economic attack, the states at least has been weakened to the point of record home loan defaults. which can be directly sourced to those events.

hey, guess who is investing in (buying, in a big way) citicorp?

thats right...

Stocks higher after Citi secures capital

step by step.... ready to convert, infidel?

I was going to come here & say it's not a case of attacking mainstream Islam ... that's it's only the radical Islamicists who deserve condemnation ... but it isn't really.

Sharia law, as practised by our great friend Saudi Arabia, results in huge breaches of the universal declaration of human rights ... universal declaration ... corporal punishment, amputations, lashings, capital punishment (US contributors take note) by means of public beheadings & stonings, no due process or representation for the accused. Women are routinely denied education, employment, justice ... and aren't allowed to vote or even drive a car. Any sexual activity outside marriage is a criminal offence & punishable by lashings and God knows what else. There's little freedom of speech, no political parties as such and trade unions are banned. Public synagogues or christian churches are banned, religious icons such as Bibles or rosaries are routinely confiscated and the bearer punished.

It's not a case of "when in Rome" .... that because we visit these countries we should obey their way of doing things .... every man and woman, no matter their race or religion deserves some basic human rights and ones which take precedence over every bit of law our countries conjure up .... and yet these rights are routinely denied by Islamic governments. And no one ever says a damned thing.

Their abuses of human rights are unbelieveable. Every bit as bad if not worse than in the former communist countries of Eastern Europe.... remember them, "the evil empire" ? We even get the King of Saudi Arabia being welcomed to the UK recently on a state visit and being welcomed by grovelling British government ministers on bended knee. It makes me sick.

Everyone should be condemning Sharia law as practised .... and those muslim governments/individuals who support it .... and not apologising for it. Everyone on this forum should be doing that instead acting like latterday islamicist Uncle Toms.

We're all Jock Tamson's bairns and deserve basic human rights no matter what.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by planetfall

venomous snakes will bite you and you will die. its the nature of the snake. i do not hate the snake, but i am aware of its tendencies.

do i want those snakes crawling free in my house? no.

is that " hatin' "?

no. its knowledge. are we all clear on this yet?

If you are going to post extensive lists of things to do with Islamics without pointing out the flaws in our culture and dragging all of those out as well then yes, thats hating. Thats not balanced. Its not impartial.

thats your job, its known as the factual rebuttal.

How many people were murdered and raped yesterday in our "better" society? How many dealers pushed filth on to kids? How much money was swindled out of corporate funds? How many people beat up on/abused their kids? How many peadophiles were arrested and put away?

red herring, lets stay on topic. there are crimes wherever there are people, those are not related to religious impetus, the way that islamic 'evengelism' is.

Why don't you round up and list all of those headlines? The answer is that - simply - it doesn't suit your argument, because you would be admitting that our society is just as messed up as everyone else's is.

i research the islam impact on the western world, and the religious origin of their actions, why dont you cite some examples of other religions perpetrating terror, if the headlines are so numerous?

You asked when was the last time someone flew an airliner into a building - when was the last time an Islamic country invaded a sovereign nation 4500 miles away from it on the pretext of - at best - a completely flawed intelligence system and - at worst - a blatant lie?

i didnt say 'someone' i said members of another religion. but okay, someone then, anyone? no? iraq was invaded, and rightly so, based on the worlds best intelligence at the time. our allies were also convinced, but who had the stones to do something about the threat? thats right, the states. again. for a prez confronted with such data and just sit on his hands would be treasonous.

You're looking at one side. Yeah, 9/11 was an atrocity, but then so is the invasion of Iraq. Which one has killed more people? Which one continues to kill more people eother directly from its original intention or from the subsequent consequences of the action?

invasion of iraq was defense, who is killing those iraqis? thats right, the islamic fan club. they're really devoted.

This is knowledge. Its there and its available and everyone can see it.
Are you clear on this yet?

that is not knowledge, its revisionist and purposefully deflective. because someone is raped by a drunken kennedy in the states does not make it equivalent to islamic jihad murdering of women and children on a global scale. its very simple really.

I won't attack Islam, but I think Islam needs reform and if the world community keeps making excuses for them, reform will never happen.

I see poverty, third world countries, and Islam as a toxic mix.

Christianity has a terrifying past, and people keep reminding them of it, as well they should, but they have gone through major reform and are past the darkages that much of Islam still lives in.


When is the last time you seen 10,000 Christian take to the streets over their faith being maligned or jesus being insulted.

Someone mentioned Saudi Arabia being free for these human right atrocities, not true,

Saudi Arabia continues to impose corporal punishment, amputations of hands and feet for robbery, and lashings for lesser crimes such as sexual deviance and drunkenness.

Saudi Arabia currently has one of the worst records of all countries on human rights and there is no freedom of religion. Christians in particular are targeted for abuse, discrimination, and persecution. Apostasy (forsaking Islam for another religion) is a capital offence, and proselytism can result in arrest and coporal punishment. Christian worshippers risk arrest, lashing, and deportation for engaging in overt religious activity. Christians are prohibited from entering the Holy city of Mecca, and there are no official churches in Saudi Arabia.

www.human-rights-and-christian-persecution.org...

India Appeases Radical Islam

Friday's multiple bomb blasts in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh -- which killed 13 people and injured about 80 -- ought to give pause to those who see the world's largest democracy as a linchpin in the war on terror. India's leaders and diplomats seek to portray the country as a firebreak against radical Islam, or the drive to impose the medieval Arab norms enshrined in Shariah law on 21st century life. In reality, India is ill- equipped to fight this scourge.

online.wsj.com...

Last year, Haji Muhammad Yaqoob Qureshi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh government, publicly offered a $11 million bounty for beheading the Danish cartoonists who had drawn the prophet Mohammed. In high-tech Hyderabad, parts of which are Muslim strongholds, three sitting legislators of a local Islamic party recently roughed up Taslima Nasreen, a Bangladeshi author critical of her country's treatment of its Hindu minority and her faith's treatment of women. Last week, the government of West Bengal state in eastern India had to call in the army to quell Muslim rioters in Calcutta, whose demands included Ms. Nasreen's expulsion from the country.

Originally posted by johnsky
all current religions are almost identical when you take a step back and look at them.

Oh? I don't see Rome demanding that people (Christian or not) be whipped 40 times because they name their stuffed animal Jesus.

Originally posted by MGauntz
One shouldn't demonize a religion due to extremists.

Sure. But telling the truth about a government that is barbaric isn't 'demonizing' - it's telling the truth.

Originally posted by V0NkA1N87
I can't imagine the British Government will allow this to go through.

They have no say in this matter. It's the SUDANIZE government, not the British government, that will have the final say.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Get off your high horses everyone and maybe check some other sources before jumping on the bloody bandwagon...it says she might just get a fine...

MIGHT just get a fine .... but the fact is that she very well could get whipped 40 times - and the bloodthirsty crowds have already started to gather and get in line for her rape/murder. Whipping shouldn't even be a possibility. But it is. It's even a probability. Sickening.

Originally posted by centurion1211
And what about that poor woman in saudi arabia getting whipped for getting raped? Another example of muslim sharia arbarism.

Glad you brought it up.

Originally posted by apc
Any government that is ruled by a set of religious ideals will appear barbaric to outsiders.

Absolutely ... but do you consider this 40 lashes to just 'appear barbaric' or can you see it for what it really is ... BARBARIC. The word 'appears' shouldn't be in play. This is barbaric. Period.

Originally posted by apc
It is the reliance on theology to run a country that must be condemned.

I agree.

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken
I don't think the Saudis are going to kill her and risk even more bad press than they've already got.

Why not? They don't care what we think. They have oil and so we will still do business with them - no matter what human rights violations they pull over and over (usually against women).

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken
I am disturbed by the Muslim-bashing on this thread that otherwise wouldn't be tolerated if it were another group.

You should see the anti-Catholic crap that gets applauded ....
And that's without anyone getting sentenced to 40 lashed by Rome.

Nov 27, 2007, 15:41 GMT Ramallah/Gaza - Palestinian opponents of the international Mideast peace conference being held in Annapolis, Maryland, took to the streets Tuesday, battling police in the West Bank and loudly cheering declarations in Gaza never to recognise Israel's right to exist.

news.monstersandcritics.com...

Senior Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar told tens of thousands of protestors that 'the Palestinian people will not recognize a Jewish state or Israel.'

WHY not? Forget the past MAKE an effort.

We all exist on this planet together or we all die together,

" Stop The madness."

Asked repeatedly whether they would accept any concessions that the Palestinian delegation, headed by President Mahmoud Abbas, might make at Annapolis, the crowd roared 'no!'

So what does it matter who owns what , this is a new day and age, reform must start.

Israeli and Palestinian leaders Monday expressed hope and optimism that a renewed peace effort will emerge from Tuesday's conference in Annapolis, Maryland.

www.cnn.com...

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said the conference will draw a line between moderates and extremists in the Arab world. "There will be those who are here, those who support the process, and there will be those who are shouting -- Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah," she said. "They will be on the outside trying to stop this conference from happening."

What are Islamic fundamentalist afraid of?

WE can strive to live peacefully with one another.

Make an effort.

This forum is read by thousands of people all over the world,

Think peace and tolerance.

reply to post by FlyersFan

You should see the anti-Catholic crap that gets applauded ....

YUP and the mods don't say a thing.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

What are Islamic fundamentalist afraid of?

WE can strive to live peacefully with one another.

Make an effort.

This forum is read by thousands of people all over the world,

Think peace and tolerance.

they fear nothing but allah's wrath.

there is no peace to be had, until this is a muslim world. allah is not a very tolerant god, there is no middle ground, at least not for devout, true muslims. you know, like the prophet himself:

"I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them..." (Bukhari 8:387)


As Indonesian cleric, Abu Bakar Bashir recently put it, "If the West wants to have peace, then they have to accept Islamic rule."


"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." (9:29)


they are not interested in striving for anything but allahs will. the biggest mistake everyone seems to make is the assumption that islams devoted thinks and feels with western sensibilities.

do not make that mistake.


The Life of Muhammad:
An Inconvenient Truth

It's funny you guys bring up Catholics, because I was just thinking how this negative generalization of Islam is similar to the negative generalization that the Catholic church faced concerning their priests molesting little boys.

In hindsight I'm sure those little boys would have prefered 40 lashes instead of what they got.

Peace

reply to post by planetfall

they are not interested in striving for anything but allahs will. the biggest mistake everyone seems to make is the assumption that islams devoted thinks and feels with western sensibilities.

That bad is it?

Even when I was a practicing Christian I was open minded, and questioned,

I blame the sever indoctrination, and of course the propagation of fear.

I think many keep silent because of fear.

reply to post by Dr Love

Originally posted by Dr Love
It's funny you guys bring up Catholics, because I was just thinking how this negative generalization of Islam is similar to the negative generalization that the Catholic church faced concerning their priests molesting little boys.

Hardly. The Catholic religion did not sanction the abuse of children, whereas Sharia law is the law of the land to many millions of people.

Originally posted by Dr Love
It's funny you guys bring up Catholics, because I was just thinking how this negative generalization of Islam is similar to the negative generalization that the Catholic church faced concerning their priests molesting little boys.

In hindsight I'm sure those little boys would have prefered 40 lashes instead of what they got.

Peace

something i generally am not known for is defense of catholics. however, the well pressed molestation cases represent a teeny, tiny bit of a fraction of all catholic clergy. but, the media needs to sell adverts, so woo hoo! like many things, its seems more prevalent than it is.

those kids obviously did not deserve that, any more than women deserve law sanctioned beatings for not pleasing husband (but only as a last resort! riiiiiight...)

reply to post by intrepid


I actually never referenced a post/quote of yours. I'm talking about blind defense here. Uneducated defense. Intrepid, you bring up an interesting point though. One billion muslims; how many public demonstrations condemning the acts of these muslim ruled nations? I rest my case. An earlier poster brought up the Catholic molestation rash. Don't you remember the public outcry? The news coverage? Sure you do.

You are missing the point either out of confusion or you are doing so purposefully.

think this is a joke? it is funny to us westerners...


Death to America TV


who could possibly take that seriously?

Originally posted by PartChimp
reply to post by intrepid

 

I actually never referenced a post/quote of yours. I'm talking about blind defense here. Uneducated defense. Intrepid, you bring up an interesting point though. One billion muslims; how many public demonstrations condemning the acts of these muslim ruled nations? I rest my case.

I think Stormdancer said it quite well:

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I blame the sever indoctrination, and of course the propagation of fear.

I think many keep silent because of fear.

It's the governments, not the average Muslim per say.

An earlier poster brought up the Catholic molestation rash. Don't you remember the public outcry? The news coverage? Sure you do.

You are missing the point either out of confusion or you are doing so purposefully.

You're right, I'm missing the point. What is it?

Originally posted by Dr Love
It's funny you guys bring up Catholics, because I was just thinking how this negative generalization of Islam is similar to the negative generalization that the Catholic church faced concerning their priests molesting little boys.

besides, its just not for catholics, anymore:

Afghan boy dancers sexually abused by former warlords

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by neformore
If you are going to post extensive lists of things to do with Islamics without pointing out the flaws in our culture and dragging all of those out as well then yes, thats hating. Thats not balanced. Its not impartial.

Why must every thread be a comparative list of country X vs the US? All that does is sidetrack the discussion.

Sometimes, a nation/religion/people commits an atrocity that should and must be discussed by itself, without the ususal drone of "Yes but the US did thus and such also."

The only reason you drag the US into every discussion is to try to make another country look less evil than they might be.

I've just heard on BBC radio 2 that the teacher Gillian Gibbons has been released.