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British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

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posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by planetfall
 


And what purpose did your post serve exactly?

Are you trying to promote one set of values above another, demonize muslims or take a shot at the Islamic religion?

Here - take a look at this

Violence and God

The Bible is not a moral highground either.




posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
It seems most religions have had these problems. Radical control freaks bent on imposing their wills on others, take a religion and twist it and use it to control people. It never ends well.
The Salem Witch Trials were a good example. or The Inquisition



bad, bad examples, lets look at the numbers, shall we?:



More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

www.crisismagazine.com...



19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...



More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

cain.ulst.ac.uk...



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

www.law.umkc.edu...



How many people died as a result of the Salem Witch trials?

Nineteen people were hanged, one person was pressed to death, and as many as thirteen people may have died in prison. See the victims page for a list of the dead.

www.salemwitchtrials.com...




Hardly compares at all, does it?

www.thereligionofpeace.com...



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall



right, whatever could have given me that impression... oh! i remember!


The Qur'an:



You are getting annoying, Ive already asked people here to stop hating, just because terrorists hate doesn't give you the right to also start hating and become just like them.

What you are doing here is spreading disinformation! Just like what terrorists do! They Misuse and abuse the Quran spread disinformation, to gain followers for their POLITICAL needs.

This is unbelievable!! I cannot believe I have to explain this again.

Those are ONLY a SMALL PART of the Surah its like taking a bit out of a story book. For example ofcourse if you quickly read that Tom stabbed billy, obviously tom would SEEM like a bad man, but in reality he was protecting his family from a pedophile serial killer. Reading and understanding it fully can be the only way you would understand the truth.

Those are only parts of the surah, a couple of parts are specifically about people who were at war against Mohamed at that time, that is why I said its very important to read the whole surah, reading the whole story, instead of a sentence, if you read just one sentence of course your going to get the wrong idea!

Read this please, scroll down and read it all. This man explains better than me. He has STUDIED the Quran in its ORIGINAL Arabic language to FULL understanding, When I say read it, please read it fully.
www.muhaddith.org...

Ofcourse you would misunderstand that quote if you do not understand and study the whole surah( basically the whole chapter)

That link I gave you explains it very well, and also explains other things that may interest you (terrorists are bad and go against Islam's teachings), its all very interesting. Enjoy.

That site you gave obviously has an agenda, its too obvious. Now please stop spreading things you do not understand and hate things you do not understand, because how can you hate something you don't understand?

Heres the Link again Read Fully if you want to understand the truth.
www.muhaddith.org...




[edit on 27-11-2007 by _Phoenix_]

[edit on 27-11-2007 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by planetfall
 


And what purpose did your post serve exactly?

Are you trying to promote one set of values above another, demonize muslims or take a shot at the Islamic religion?

Here - take a look at this

Violence and God

The Bible is not a moral highground either.



your instinctive reflex to bash christianity has given you away. i hadn't mentioned the christian bible in any way, neither by inference or even the vaguest allusion, thats all you, baybay. apparently.

so, how many people have christians murdered in their campaign to rule the world?

i've got the numbers for islam, and i was not promoting anything other than what is from the koran itself. i only repeated allahs will, as he demands of muslims, its his words, not mine.

and really, the whole christian bashing thing, isnt that rather cliched and unimaginative yet? i dont think people are so much athiest/pagan/whackjob as they are simply antichristian... it always come back to 'oh yeah? well, christians this and christians that' at the slightest provocation, if any at all.

b-o-r-i-n-g.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by planetfall



right, whatever could have given me that impression... oh! i remember!


The Qur'an:



You are getting annoying, Ive already asked people here to stop hating, just because terrorists hate doesn't give you the right to also start hating and become just like them.

What you are doing here is spreading disinformation! Just like what terrorists do! The Misuse and abuse the Quran spread disinformation, to gain followers for their POLITICAL needs.

This is unbelievable!! I cannot believe I have to explain this again.

Those are ONLY a SMALL PART of the Surah its like taking a bit out of the story. For example ofcourse if you quickly read that Tom stabbed billy, that tom would seem like a bad man, but in reality he was protecting his family from a pedophile serial killer.

Those are only parts of the surah, a couple of parts are specifically about people who were at war against Mohamed at that time, that is why I said its very important to read the whole surah, reading the whole story, instead of a sentence, if you read just one sentence of course your going to get the wrong idea!

Read this please, scroll down and read it all. This man explains better than me. He has STUDIED the Quran in its ORIGINAL Arabic language to FULL understanding, When I say read it, please read it fully.
www.muhaddith.org...

Ofcourse you would misunderstand that quote if you do not understand and study the whole surah( basically the whole chapter)

That link I gave you explains it very well, and also explains other things that may interest you (terrorists are bad and go against Islam's teachings), its all very interesting. Enjoy.

That site you gave obviously has an agenda, its too obvious. Now please stop spreading things you do not understand and hate things you do not understand, because how can you hate something you don't understand?

Heres the Link again Read Fully if you want to understand the truth.




if quoting allah's very words, right from the koran itself is hating, then you have a sensitivity issue.

i am not hating, simply presenting facts.

dispute anything i am saying? be specific.

that site's agenda is sourced from the reported and researched facts. again, is there something specifically you dispute?

yes, the truth is annoying, but i find ignorance even more ofensive, shouldnt you?



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall
]


bad, bad examples, lets look at the numbers, shall we?:



More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

Oh wait and who are those people? Umm let me think MUSLIMS!

MORE muslims get killed by Terrorists every month than anyone else, they are the ones who have to SURVIVE through this.

Try telling me these terrorists are muslims, they are not, they are more of an enemy to muslims than anyone else.

Go ahead hate Muslims, thats EXACTLY what the terrorists want, think about it. Dont help them.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall



if quoting allah's very words, right from the koran itself is hating, then you have a sensitivity issue.

i am not hating, simply presenting facts.




You obviously didn't read and study what I showed you, therefore your showing yourself to be ignorant in front of everyone, sorry but its the truth.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by spacenickoy


i hope that when that asteroid is eventually on a path with our tiny blue pearl we have no way of deflecting it and the scum that is our race finally gets finished off for good>

Keep talking like this and you will become one of them.


fair point



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by planetfall
]


bad, bad examples, lets look at the numbers, shall we?:



More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

Oh wait and who are those people? Umm let me think MUSLIMS!

MORE muslims get killed by Terrorists every month than anyone else, they are the ones who have to SURVIVE through this.

Try telling me these terrorists are muslims, they are not, they are more of an enemy to muslims than anyone else.

Go ahead hate Muslims, thats EXACTLY what the terrorists want, think about it. Dont help them.





i dont hate muslims, again, your overly sensitive, defensive reflex assuming everything is persecution, especially recorded facts, gives you away.

terrorists not muslims? ha ha h ah ah a! they are not only muslim, but proper muslims who do allahs bidding, they are carrying out allahs demands without regard to their own personal comfort.

being informed is NOT hating, lets recognise that difference, it may be a sublety lost on this board, but its a very real difference all the same.

As Indonesian cleric, Abu Bakar Bashir recently put it, "If the West wants to have peace, then they have to accept Islamic rule."

terrorist do indeed kill their fellow muslims, muslims are people, and they count among the MASSIVE number killed by the more enthusiastic among their creed.

whats your point?



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall
if quoting allah's very words, right from the koran itself is hating, then you have a sensitivity issue.

i am not hating, simply presenting facts.


The facts are, you cherry pick quotes, out of the context of their chapters, and the situation whence it was revealed in history.

Look, here's another case of cherry-picking quotes out of context to fit an agenda (in this case The Bible):
David Hasselhoff is the AntiChrist

You know who else takes quotes out of context from the Quran? Those terrorist you condemn.


Originally posted by planetfall
yes, the truth is annoying, but i find ignorance even more ofensive, shouldnt you?


No kidding


 

Don't bother responding. It's been my experience that when people have a set agenda, no amount of facts will sway them. Instead of denying ignorance, they'll choose to embrace it. Their choice, their loss. Keep on hating.

Just remember, communication is reciprocal and the meaning of your communication is the response you get.

This will be my last post in this hate-fest. Deny ignorance, my ass.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall


whats your point?

My point is that everything you've just said is wrong, you do not understand the Quran, you have not studied the Quran, you OBVIOUSLY didn't read what I just said LOL, Its rather amusing. And your basically spreading disinformation about a religion BILLIONS of people follow.

I showed you the TRUE meanings of those quotes you showed, once again terrorist are not Muslims, they go against everything Islam stands for.

I showed you the proof, in the link I gave, from a very clever Muslim, who has fully studied and understands the Quran, but you didnt bother to read it, and yet you still talk nonsense.

Im not sensitive, Ive just don't like people twisting the truth, or simply posting something they obviously dont uunderstand that thus leads to hate.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by planetfall



if quoting allah's very words, right from the koran itself is hating, then you have a sensitivity issue.

i am not hating, simply presenting facts.



You obviously didn't read and study what I showed you, therefore your showing yourself to be ignorant in front of everyone, sorry but its the truth.



that site has everything but passages from the koran, its all spin and twist, for example, search for Sura:

www.muhaddith.org...

returns poorly organised, wordy and apparently desperate attempts to put allahs word in a harmless light


ol' mo said it was perfectly fine to lie to the infidels, to decieve them that they might be defeated....

they'll say anything to us. and some will buy into it, obviously.


Sura (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Sura (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Sura (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Sura (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Sura (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

Bukhari (52:271) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.


From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746) - "[it is] obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining the sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate... it is not unlawful to lie when any of these aims can only be attained through lying. But is is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression..."


their words, not mine, presented as recorded and documented fact. is there a problem here?



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by planetfall


whats your point?

My point is that everything you've just said is wrong, you do not understand the Quran, you have not studied the Quran, you OBVIOUSLY didn't read what I just said LOL, Its rather amusing. And your basically spreading disinformation about a religion BILLIONS of people follow.

I showed you the TRUE meanings of those quotes you showed, once again terrorist are not Muslims, they go against everything Islam stands for.

I showed you the proof, in the link I gave, from a very clever Muslim, who has fully studied and understands the Quran, but you didnt bother to read it, and yet you still talk nonsense.

Im not sensitive, Ive just don't like people twisting the truth, or simply posting something they obviously dont uunderstand that thus leads to hate.



everything i said was recorded fact, do you dispute the historical record? do you dispute the very words of allah and the prophet? thats all i've presented.

theres something more here, i suspect. there must be.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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Id also like to add religion isn't the problem, of course you can nitpick a few things here and there and try to blame religion as a whole, but in reality the real problem lies within the people, humans, without religion humans would still have ways of doing bad things, instead of abusing religion and using it for their political gains, they would instead do other evil things, think of all the bad people out there, rapists, pedophiles, murders etc, corrupt politicians, Politics? isn't that similar to religion?

So I think its time to stop blaming religion and start getting to the source, the people, us, humans.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:13 AM
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Damn this guy doesnt even try reading anything, instead he goes around trying to find bad things about the website. lol I give up. For real, think what you want. I hope others see the light.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by planetfall
your instinctive reflex to bash christianity has given you away. i hadn't mentioned the christian bible in any way, neither by inference or even the vaguest allusion, thats all you, baybay. apparently.


If you think this was Christian bashing, then you are wrong.

I'm trying to make a point.

You quote from the Koran, I presented quotes from the bible.

Neither of them is exactly steeped in niceties, are they?

So whilst ripping the crap out of one - as you have done in the case of the Koran - are you prepared to read the information in the link I posted and then say the same about the other?

If not, then I would say you have a very one sided agenda.

And that, my learned friend, is as you would put it boo - ooo - ooring.

I'm an atheist/agnostic btw. I don't care about religions. The books are as valid as a Jeffrey Archer novel to me.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Id also like to add religion isn't the problem, of course you can nitpick a few things here and there and try to blame religion as a whole, but in reality the real problem lies within the people, humans, without religion humans would still have ways of doing bad things, instead of abusing religion and using it for their political gains, they would instead do other evil things, think of all the bad people out there, rapists, pedophiles, murders etc, corrupt politicians, Politics? isn't that similar to religion?

So I think its time to stop blaming religion and start getting to the source, the people, us, humans.


nitpicking? how many innocent people have bhuddists, catholics, hindu's, scientologists, southern baptists, shinto, evengelicals, etc... murdered over the years, in the name of god?

anything even remotely close to islam? in any way at all? even just a teensy bit? lets stick to the facts and not perpetuate a sense of feel-good 'we're all in this together' complacency that leaves us vulnerable.

islam is clearly a threat to the rest of the civilised world. unless of course you're on board with their mission, to make this a mulsim world, converting or killing ALL infidels.

then you're probably fine with it.

In Muhammad's OWN words: "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them..." (Bukhari 8:387)

not my words, his. if you have a problem with that, you have a problem with islam.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by neformore


If you think this was Christian bashing, then you are wrong.

I'm trying to make a point.

I wouldn't bother with him, lol. Its just impossible. Lets give up before we waste any more energy on him and this.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by planetfall
your instinctive reflex to bash christianity has given you away. i hadn't mentioned the christian bible in any way, neither by inference or even the vaguest allusion, thats all you, baybay. apparently.


If you think this was Christian bashing, then you are wrong.

I'm trying to make a point.

You quote from the Koran, I presented quotes from the bible.

Neither of them is exactly steeped in niceties, are they?

So whilst ripping the crap out of one - as you have done in the case of the Koran - are you prepared to read the information in the link I posted and then say the same about the other?

If not, then I would say you have a very one sided agenda.

And that, my learned friend, is as you would put it boo - ooo - ooring.

I'm an atheist/agnostic btw. I don't care about religions. The books are as valid as a Jeffrey Archer novel to me.


my agenda is very plain. islam must be known for what it really is, right or wrong. knowledge will set us all free.

muslims also believe in the old testament, and the new testament for the most part. you might say the koran is the third testament.

you really have to dig around the old books for the dirt, i believe its leviticus in the o.t. but nothing even close to the direct commands by allah himself, in the frequency or depth of the very real desire for this to be a muslim world. period. no middle ground.

atheist, hmm? you'd be among the first buried waist deep and stoned to death by the folks you defend. allah doesnt care about your personally held beliefs, if it doesnt involve worshipping HIM totally.



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by planetfall


whats your point?

My point is that everything you've just said is wrong, you do not understand the Quran, you have not studied the Quran, you OBVIOUSLY didn't read what I just said LOL, Its rather amusing. And your basically spreading disinformation about a religion BILLIONS of people follow.

I showed you the TRUE meanings of those quotes you showed, once again terrorist are not Muslims, they go against everything Islam stands for.

I showed you the proof, in the link I gave, from a very clever Muslim, who has fully studied and understands the Quran, but you didnt bother to read it, and yet you still talk nonsense.

Im not sensitive, Ive just don't like people twisting the truth, or simply posting something they obviously dont uunderstand that thus leads to hate.



why dont you ask the terrorists if they are muslim or not? what they do sure looks like devout following of allahs will to me, and the rest of the world. allah says it, they do it. ka-boom.

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." (9:29)

cherry picking the koran, hadith and islamic law? then thats the most productive cherry harvest ever realised, there is endless examples to reap, as opposed to the old and new testament, where you really have dig and extrapolate.

again, this is simply presenting the record. hating would look like this:



“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”



yow! thats pretty strong, dont you agree? who would be able to get away with that? apparently muslims can:


Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement


again, not my words. i'm just presenting the facts.

cherry picking, indeed.




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