So Aliens visit us. So we have free-energy. So what?

Excuse me for going off track here, but i believe i finally understand the coherent wisdom of independance over dependance.

If you depend on others for wisdom, you can never become truly wise yourself, and as such you can be manipulated into doing things that would seem un-wise to one whom is experienced.

In essence, Capitalism is an 'un-wise' structure for humanity to operate on, for the reasons that have been shown.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


I'm sorry Jim, I realize my post was only three lines long and with a link, but it seems I didn't make your list or you over looked my post entirely, I'm not sure which it was but you CAN read it for yourself, again, this is 1952 technology, it makes me wonder what they could do today..........

[edit on 26-11-2007 by thedigirati]

Originally posted by schuyler
Now as far 'free energy' goes, those who believe in these fantasies have never studied physics. You can't violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, period. End of story. Making up a conspiracy to explain why those devices are not omnipresent won't help your cause or get them magically invented.

*sigh*

Oh ye of little Faith!

Overunity devices are perfectly acceptable in physics, as long as they receive energy from an outside source.

If it turns out that the whole Universe is a raging sea of virtually unlimited energy anyway, and we can tap into that, then "Free Energy" is no problem and does NOT violate any "Laws" of physics.

And BTW, all it takes is ONE experiment that produces new and unexpected data - and then all the so-called "LAWS" of physics have to be rewritten to accomodate the new data!

The "LAWS" of physics are not "LAWS" at all, more like the "Theories" and "Models" of physics.

And people who go around saying "You can't do that, that's impossible, that violates the Laws of physics!" are actually Ignorant of the way Science really works.

Originally posted by schuyler
Right. You don't have a patent, everyone else in this has wanted to get rich, but only you want to get rich and, umm, save the world. What's the difference between you and the other guys, then? A PATENT means you own the idea for X number of years and no one else can use it. So you want to use the legal system to lock up a technology that will free the world?

Bad night to question... I'm on a roll in all my threads... Anywho... A patent is the assurance that I don't get Tesla'd by the likes of GM, Ford, GE or whoever feels that it should be supressed/their sole property.

A patent is a guarantee that when I have the funds, or investors are found that I will be able to produce my product and reap the benefits of that product. You see I'm not a rich man... I have bills, a mortgage, and a 2 year old son. I'm not going to forget my family at the possible benefit of the world.

Your claim that a patent means no one else can use my idea is LUDICROUS!

All that a patent means is that if GE steals MY idea I can take legal recourse against them. To release a patent for free and public use (after selling it to the corporations that also need to utilize some form of energy to continue to operate) I can then release the patent for ANYONE TO USE... The only thing is that if you break the terms of the public access to this product (i.e. selling it for more than the cost of production) I will sue your pants off.

Whoa! If you DO have this energy technology that will free the world and make things all better, it would seem to me that giving the idea away, making sure everyone had copies so it couldn't be suppressed, publishing it in thousands of places on the Internet, would 'ensure your child's future' and everyone else's as well.

Right... and after I have the patent, and have made a small profit off of the oil barons who run our country our society will reap the benefits by a full release on the understanding that this product is not for the purpose of profit.
Yes I should be the ONLY person to profit from this invention because it is MY idea. Now if you add a new feature to my patented Item you are more than free to patent it, and make your money... but no one else will STEAL my IDEAS. To take without permission is theft. To take what is given is gratitude.

For the sake of argument let us assume everything you say about this device is true, thus earning you a Nobel Prize at the very least. Sitting on it because you don't have a patent to lock in your profits does not strike me as particularly benificient nor humanitarian.

To be honest I'm not interested in recognition. But IF I have a multi million dollar Idea... I expect to receive payment accordingly. To expect me to put the world before my family (who is in NO way rich or well off) is ignorant of you to say the least. But hell if you feel like working for free go right ahead. I for one expect to be rewarded for my labor. There is nothing inhumane about ensuring your own survival before others. It is human nature.


Lastly the tone of your post proves you ignored the basic statement of my entire post.

Magnetics and electricity are tied together by the laws of physics. Utilizing this tie is one of the keys to our energy problems. It is also the key to my idea.

frankly... its people with negative attitudes like yours that keep the blue collar workers with good ideas down. Necessity is the mother of invention.. such and such.


I bet you would have laughed at Simon Gray 11 years ago when he was telling you about his lame website idea... Then you would have judged him for wanting to profit off of this idea... wouldn't you?

my heart light burns vindictive cinders
my head mind finds a place adjacent
all fractals act as an actual example
raise my hands lucid infusion
color the latent faded ageless
when the time comes i will be ready
steady measure the leisure gesture
invest your time in spirit
can you hear it
he speaks in a secret frequency
open your heart to love light
dove flight
some sight is meant to be hidden
you cannot hear if you cannot listen
this is a world of much beauty rudely awakened
men as creatures must be trained for the remainder
where do i stand in this land of abandon
i am a culture shock product document
a monument to the last days of a failing fabric
weave the trees with a new fusion of leaves
i've seen a great fractal spiral light the night sky
it explodes from the center of my spine chakra
i imagine a tangible thing and manifest catalyst
drown the foundation and cement your intention
learn your lesson in this lifetime and move to the next vector
stage two becomes phase three for the fourth quarter horse
grab the reins and proclaim the son of man tour de force
align the planetary defiance righteous assignment
find it within and tear it out shouting valiant
i've made this place so that i may erase it
face it

reply to post by Jim_Kraken



Aye... I will... sure... just like the guys who made little silicone boards with these little electrical circuits in 'em did back in the 30's and 40's. Cause god knows your not the first naysayer. Hell Tesla had hundreds... But his inventions worked.

Who are you to DECLARE it is a lost cause.

since your such an expert, post up some PROOF... I'm not claiming to be an expert... but I'm a knowledgeable fellow who has an interest in mechanics, magnetics, and electricity. people like you didn't stop galileo from studying, copernicus from stargazing, or columbus from exploring. Why do you insist or being a part of the problem? Anything is possible with thought and innovation. Nothing is possible with denial and ignorance.

see I admit... I'm just trying to make something... make enough money to get by; and then help the world. I'm doing just like you would. If you don't think about yourself before the world your bound to be screwed over. But thats ok... because all your thought has shown is that you are stuck in the now, and not thinking of the possible New.


When you admit you are not an expert we will go back to civility. otherwise
leave your negativity at the door... especially as it is leading us further off topic.


Proof required:
post a bill showing your IP with the name the bill is to showing. also i want a post with your degree showing you have a degree in any form of advanced physics. After that you can go ahead and post me a picture of yourself HOLDING your degree and the bill. Maybe also a piece of paper with your hand written screen name on it.


Once again... I am no expert... just a person using my brain.

got the guts to admit the same?

Hey, coven, if you actually have something that works, have you thought of trying out the AERO Award Program?

$200,000 up front and $5 million in royalties over two years for a working device....

And AERO get to deal with all the logistical problems of getting the device properly disclosed to the world, instead of you alone.......

reply to post by MrdDstrbr


Awesome! no i had not... this is all conceptual at this time; so it is something I a bookmarking for the possibility of use in the future... and five million would just about... nah... it WOULD cover everything I or my son would need for a while.

Thanks so much for the link! (and also for being one of the few who aren't reading me as if I had a malicious intent behind my post... to be frank I didn't even want to mention it...)

reading AERO link now!

I was a lot like Jim_Kraken. Spent quite a number of years after High School sitting in class rooms and labs learning all those laws of physics. Imagine my disappointment in advanced education when I ran into James Clerk Maxwell's real theories after working with those fricken physics laws for over twenty-five years. If only colleges taught an awareness class.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


Zero point energy is not free energy. The parts and stuff cost money. But it would produce no co 2 emissions only heat. Good for northern climates or underground.

FYI- By modern definition, zero point energy is "the extraction of an electrical current from a preexisting magnetic field". The zero point being the magnetic field itself, which remains undiminished .

reply to post by napper


I'm not past admitting I'm wrong if the data prove otherwise. James Clerk Maxwell was a genius-please share what you learned.

[edit on 26-11-2007 by Jim_Kraken]

[edit on 26-11-2007 by Jim_Kraken]

Dear Diplomat,
The answer of "so what" can be used for anything. For example, your "free energy" ideas, so what, what does it matter? The truth is that it's up to you to decide what matters. You're only alive on this earth for so long, you might as well put some meaning into your life before you inevitably fail and die, as we all surely will.

So answer this to yourself, what in your life is meaningful? One might say their friends or family, as others may say power and wealth. "So what?" is simply a test of your priorities. If you truly believe in UFO's or government secrets, allocate your time into research and give your life some meaning.

It's all really a question of value, and value is by definition subjectable. Answering the question your friend asked you may lead to something deeper, an answer about yourself, think about it.

reply to post by coven

The key is to open your mind and approach the problem from the perspective of "How Can I MAKE if work?" as opposed to "by the laws of Physics it won't work".

Yes but the laws of physics are laws for a reason. Science is self correcting and if you manage to get your device going and prove it then I'm sure the scientific community would jump on board. But you're right.. "impossible" barriers do sometimes crumble. Good luck

Hi Jim_Kraken:

I'm not suggesting you are wrong for asking for proof. I was simply making an observation from your inquiries that seem to be on the skeptical side. Nothing wrong with that either.

What has happened is Heaviside (and I'm putting this in very simply terms right now since that's all I know at this time) removed the 4th dimension, not time, from Maxwell's vector equations because for all practical purposes that worked out just fine in our materialist reality.

So from there, I think back in the mid to late 1800's, science has used Heaviside's modifications to describe our 3d+t world. But Heaviside's modifications do not accurately predict effects of spinning objects where Maxwell's original equations do as one example.

I'm still studying but I think if we apply Maxwell's equations to some of the stiffled free energy devices replicators could have a better understanding as to how the thing worked, or not worked, in the first place. Steven Mark's toriodal power unit just as one example.

There are many other's and they all can be easily debunked. However, it may sound a lot like Beardon and Hoagland, but I think there was something to what Stanley Myer did with his hydrogen production and what Steorn is doing with their perpetual motion device.

Maxwell's equations are not the only theories that may describe how free energy can work. The Steorn dude sites Noether's theorem. Noether's theorem describes how one could use variances in time.

There are so many examples that are out there. I do not blame anyone for being skeptical. The law of thermal dynamics and conservation of energy are very usefull in are everyday realities. I was just saying that I wish we were exposed to other theories out there so we wouldn't be so skeptical as to not see other realities.

I used to be pretty rigid about applying the laws of physics as many of use has come to understand them. But lately I've been leaning more torward keeping a more open mind and doing further research.

I hope I didn't offend you as it was not intended.

Take care.

nap

reply to post by napper


Nah, I wasn't offended. I don't know if truly free energy may ever be possible but I think very cheap energy thru solar, nuclear, or zero-point means is almost certainly within our grasp. I would probably think differently about free energy if it there hadn't been so many unsuccessful experiments. I think the exploration of means of cheap and clean energy shows far more promise than the exploration of free energy.

I appreciate your input.

Signed,

Jim Kraken

[edit on 26-11-2007 by Jim_Kraken]

This is a perfect time to tell you guys of the story of when I bumped into Ralph Ring. I have been wanting to share this experience some of you but did not think that it was important enough for its own thread.

This is a true story, this took place sometime in 2002 - one day me and my wife and a couple of friends where in downtown Sacramento, its a part of downtown that is called old town because it has a lot of buildings that are over 100 years old. Anyway we where on are way to find a good place to eat when this really crazy looking guy comes up to us out of no where and wants a few minutes of our time to tell us a story.

At first I was thinking, oh great, we get to here a sob story from a city bum in his pathetic attempt to get us too feel sorry for him so that we can give him some money. Well I us completely shock when he started to talk about how he invented an anti gravity engine for automobiles and tried to sell it to GM. But GM rejected his invention and said that it would ruin the economy. Then he went on to telling us that he was involved in some other projects but government goonies found out and shut him down and confiscated all of his work and threatened him if he pursued this any further.

He then went on to tell us that he fought for his right and the group of government goonies that threaten him, basically made his life hell by giving him a bad name where ever he went, like making it so that he cant get any loans, making it so that he cannot get good employment and so on and so forth. He did not tell me about the experience that he had in the flying disk, because at this point we where just strangers and he did not want to scare us away.

He said that he just wanted to tell his story to someone because he was going through such a hard time and it made him feel better to talk about it. He gave me his name and said to look him up and said that there was a lot of information about him on the internet.

At the time I did not think much of it because there was a lot of things going on in my life and I had already got involved in doing research on ufo's and conspiracies a few years ago but I was taking a break from it all. It did not click for me until a few months ago when I saw the video interview with him on Project Camelot and shortly after the ATS Mix interview. You can see both of them here:

www.projectcamelot.net...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Every thing that he told me that day is exactly every thing that he said in these interviews. I am thinking about emailing him and asking if he remembers this. Anyway, I just wanted to share this experience with you guys and I can tell you that after bumping into him like this and getting most of his story in person, I can tell you that I believe this guy 100% and what he says is true.

[edit on 11/26/07 by housegroove23]

The more I read about Ralph Ring, the more it seems like he is the key to figuring out this free-energy stuff. I remember in the Camelot interview they asked Mr. Ring if he could build another flying disc himself, and he said something like, "No, you can't do it alone. You've got to have other people."

So why don't we assemble a team, contact Ralph Ring, and get the ball rolling? It looks like he is publicly listed in Las Vegas, but I am hesitant to call him because I think he might get angry.

That is a good idea, Diplomat

I know for sure that he gave his email address out on the ATS MIX show, so when I get some time I will email him and see if he remembers bumping into me and then try to convince him to join ATS. I think I remember in the ATS MIX interview that he said he does not really do the internet thing, so I don't know how far we will get on that.

By the way, I know this is really off topic but I just saw that Project Camelot did an interview and got some really good information about the Barksdale 'missing nukes' incident. Check it out here:

www.projectcamelot.net...

It looks like they already got wind of it on this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11/27/07 by housegroove23]

What goes for the "so what" part, I'm quite convinced that anybody truly having the control of any Free Energy would propably have nearly absolute control of the world as well. World's economy is obviously dependant on dependance of _cost_ of energy in a way, that it does have to cost something for economy to actually work.

Having control of technology about Free Energy would also mean that it would be easy to just announce that "we just discovered free energy and here's a power plant to prove it". It doesn't require that one should tell that the source is alien, just tell the world that a genious was born. Such people have born before, and can get birth tomorrow as well.

To think that any single nation would actually have power plants producing Free Energy would mean nearly total control of economy for that particular nation, and it would be possible to guard the secret with an army surrounding the base and the town where workers live in. Russia's atomic cities are a good example of that, and so are many military bases.

If one has this energy, why on earth they wouldn't take advantage of it by using it?

I got a little out of context here, but the answer is deductable nevertheless. So, for "So what?": it would give that particular nation immense advantage over everybody else in capitalism. Moneywise and militarywise.

Originally posted by rawsomIf one has this energy, why on earth they wouldn't take advantage of it by using it?

But that's just the thing, no one on Earth has it. It doesn't have anything to do with loving capitalism, the socialist countries don't have it, either. I'll reiterate-free energy is a waste of time, but UFO research-which has produced real data, is not.