No, I will not vaccinate my children!

reply to post by NuclearPaul


You don't believe the entire Medical Profession is in a Conspiracy with the Government to make us sick or kill us do you? That is far to paranoid for most people to even consider. The incredible number of people who would be in on it boggles the mind.

I really appreciate this thread, but I have a word of advice for all who are concerned with this thread and the comments made:

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. DO NOT TRUST A SINGLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION. RESEARCH THE PARTIES RESPONSIBLE FOR FUNDING THE STUDIES THAT YOU CONSIDER. CONSULT YOUR FAMILY PHYSICIAN OR OTHER QUALIFIED AUTHORITY TO ASSIST WITH YOUR RESEARCH, TO CLARIFY VAGUE DESCRIPTIONS, DEFINITIONS AND STATISTICAL RESULTS. GET A SECOND OPINION. ARRIVE AT YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS ABOUT WHETHER VACCINATING YOUR CHILDREN IS THE BEST THING FOR THEIR LONG-TERM HEALTH.

I say this because with health care it is very easy to be persuaded by "official" reports and "personal" accounts of the effectiveness of medical procedures. It generally plays like a confidence game without intending to be. This is because one has to take a leap of faith when making choices about the best course of action to take towards preventing illness. It doesn't matter whether it is voodoo, witchcraft, herbalism, homeopathy, any other alternative medicine, or the science of modern medicine; one decides to believe in one treatment or another as being the best possible course of action, and usually those beliefs are formed on the basis of stories of personal account or science/medical recommendation. Just do your homework.

Hi There,

A number of posters have already stated in the posts they made the real issue of debate here. It is not about the merit or demerit of taking the vaccine, it is about the right to decide for oneself.

Nothing of the state should interfere between the parent and their child...that relationship is sacrosanct and wholly off limits to the state. Of course, there are mitigating circumstances wherein the state might be sought or seek to interpose itself between the parent and the child for reasons of safety: such reasons being wide-ranging and variable to make it impractical to discuss them here, but I acknowledge they exist.

Vaccination is not a mitigating circumstance, nor does it become one unless it can be proven that there is the likelyhood of a epidemic. The point of this is that parents should be informed by the state truthfully, and that it is the parent whom makes the ultimate (informed) decision on whether their child is vaccinated or not. Equally, no money should be made from the enterprise, nor a charge levied. Annual vaccinations can be considered as a 'license to print money' for the pharmaceuticals, and to be sure, there is no real incentive for them to seek genuine cures and eradications of diseases. Let's face it, if they cured everything, they would be put out of business.

In a way, it is the same as the situation in which America stands, it needs a enemy, and a war it can sustain in order to make vast profits...both these industries are boom industries, and I seriously doubt that they are going to relinquish that boom on moral reasons alone.

By all accounts, what occurred in Maryland was a criminal act, as there is no law that forces parents to have their children immunised...so how did it transpire, and why did no parent make a stand? It sent a signal of docility and submission. Litmus tests?

Best wishes

Everyone should decide for themselves.

Just a few points....

Is a Hepititus B vacine required for a child under six months of age? I think not, and argued my case succesfully against the hospital (1999).

The American Pediatrics association came out two weeks later and recommended that children do NOT get the vaccine until they are 2 years old.

My point is that, this is a small developing child, is it really necessary to protect them from a virus that affects homosexuals or HIV-drug users?

Another point is, what is good for one, is not good for all. If all the kids in the school are vacinated except mine... who are they going to catch the virus from?

And no, I do not think that the Polo should be a required vaccination.. the only know cases in the last decade resulted from the vaccine itself.

I feel guilty as hell, even though I know I didn't have any idea about al this back then....but all my kids got the regular shots, and some of them start at BIRTH. I recall one nurse preparing a hypo and I asked what it was..she smiled and said it was just the REQUIRED vaccinations. I assumed it was all normal and OK.

Two of my kids are fine..but the youngest, born at the exact time that all these vaccines were using that Thimerosol crap..and he has real issues..from Aspergers to ADD and ODD and unspecified other things. The poor boy is 13 now and takes so many heavy meds that God only knows what it is doing to him. To think that it could have been caused by those damned shots makes me want to do things that I know are not advisable..

The States NEVER tel anyone about this: We never ever heard one word about innoculations except how they were mandatory for school and such. At the time there was no real worries about them..and as a kid I remember getting the big ones like polio and such..I still got chickenpox and all the other childhood illnesses like mumps and measles also. but we never thought it was a big deal. If a kid had red spots all over them they simply stayed home until it was gone.

All I know is that if there is even a small chance that my son is like he is due to those awful chemicals, they should be done away with and the corporate monsters that used it ought to be taken out and stood against a wall and be shot. China knows how to deal with big shots who cause harm to the people...maybe we should also.

I though I would add my 2 cents in here. My son who is now 4 years old developed severe food allergies by the time he was 8 months old.

Food allergies have been on the rise at alarming rates ALONG with autism and asthma. My son is one of the 80% that has developed asthma along with his food allergies that keeps my wife and I on our toes at ALL times. My son can not go to Birthday parties due to the extent of his allergies. He is inhalation resistand and contact resistant. His reactions have been from mild(watery eyes and itching) to severe (anaphalxis) He is not stranger to ambulance rides to the hospital. Our home is allergin free, but we are not in control over products that failed to list proper ingredients or possible cross- contaminations. If anyone is interested his allergies consist of:

Peanuts, treenuts, strawberries, soy, fish, and eggs.

What does this have to do with vaccines? Possbily nothing... posibly everything. There is a hygeine hypothisis out there that states that we have become too clean of a nation. (I would have to say Canada is too clean too seeing that their children are having the same problems)

Another hypothisis is the amount of vaccines that are now being given to our children. MY wife and I stopped vacinating our child after his diagnosis. That means all we have noy given him is the MMR and the Chicken Pox.

Chicken Pox? Anyone really care about having them? I loved getting the week off in 2nd. grade!! Fact about that... the original vaccine didn't work. Now you have to have two shots.

Why are autism rates so high? Stats are increasing so high and this at first was attributed to the mercury levels in vaccinations. IS this true? I dunno!

Please check out some of the ingredients that you are putting into your infants and toddlers:

Antifreeze:

(This is in the polio vaccine.) Classed as "Very Toxic Material". May lead to kidney, liver, blood and central nervous system (CNS) disorders. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Effects include behavioural disorders, drowsiness, vomiting, diarrhoea, visual disturbances, thirst, convulsions, cyanosis, and rapid heart rate, CNS stimulation, depression, cardiopulmonary effects, kidney disorders. May also lead to liver and blood disorders. Produces reproductive and developmental effects in experimental animals.
www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com...

Aluminium:

EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant, neurotoxicant, respiratory toxicant. Implicated as a cause of brain damage; suspected factor in Alzheimer's Disease, dementia, convulsions and comas. More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems. On at least 2 federal regulatory lists. (This element is not toxic when only in trace amounts, indeed at such levels is even beneficial to the body, however a trace amount is extremely minute - the level in vaccines is enormously higher, at around 0.5%)

Animal organ tissue and blood:

Animal cell lines need to be used to culture the viruses in vaccines, so this material is included in the formulation that is injected. Other than when this protein material is digested (i.e. consumed and broken down into its component amino acids, etc, before absorption), it is unusable and toxic to the body. It can also contain many animal viruses (see Animal Viruses).

Animals used include monkey (kidney), cow (heart), calf (serum), chicken (embryo and egg), duck (egg), pig (blood), sheep (blood), dog (kidney), horse (blood), rabbit (brain), guinea pig, etc.

Animal Viruses: Some of these can be particularly alien to the human body. The most frequently documented and publicised example is the monkey virus SV40. This is harmless in monkeys, but inject it into a human and it can cause cancer – in the brain (tumours), bone (e.g. multiple myeloma), lungs (mesothelioma) and lymphoid tissue (lymphoma). It has appeared in people born in the last 20 years (The Journal of Infectious Diseases, Sep 1999;180:884-887), long after the manufacturer claimed to have "cleaned up" the polio vaccine in which it was found. Such cases include the late Alexander Horwin, both of whose parents tested negative for SV40, therefore recent cases cannot just be blamed on inheritance from parents who received the vaccine. see:
www.ouralexander.org


Just look at the Polio Vaccine ingredients:

Polio virus, monkey kidney cell, beef heart infusion/fetal bovine serum, formaldehyde, phenol/phenoxyethanol, dry natural latex rubber, neomycin.

Neomycin Sulfate (antibiotic):

Interferes with Vitamin B6 absorption. An error in the uptake of Vitamin B6 can cause a rare form of epilepsy and mental retardation.

Please go to this site if your interested in some more:

www.knowvaccines.com...

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Modern immunization is "sketchy" to say the least.

based on what bad science? personal opinion? Scare tatics? What? please give us more than the sound bite

Sorry for the long post, I just have a lot to say and I don't want to spread it out over many more.

I've read this whole thread and while I have my personal opinon on the issue, I can't help but notice how many of these "trends" and "causes" are really nothing more than interpretations of data ... data that we simply see in the form of a chart ... and offered to us by the creators of the study.

I mean people are claiming this link to autism ... that may very well be the case that autism cases are increasing. And it may be the case that it is a result of heavy metals in vaccinations. Or it may be the result of HAARP. Or contrails. Or stress causing a Darwinian change in genes that foster autism. Or drinking water. Or the current methods of producing peanut butter.

Just because a seperated, isolated population does not follow trend A (vaccinations) and happens to not have result B (autisim), does not mean that there is any relation whatsoever. Hell, for all we know they could be TESTING for autism less in amish communities. Or it could be that they ALSO have cleaner drinking water (and peanut butter).

There is no denying that in the current state of the U.S. health system there are more "band-aids" than "cures". It is VERY possible things like vaccinations could be used for nefarious purposes. And that things like them have in the past, and still are today. Then again, so could drinking water. Or the air we breathe. Or food we eat. Or our electronic devices. Or genetic modification of foods and animals. Or peanut butter (man do I want some peanut butter right now, regardless ).

My point is that conspiracies can literally be applied to anything and everything one encounters in life as a human. It is our choice to decide which ones are bunk and which ones are rational and thus probable.

Just like it is, and SHOULD BE, our choice to accept or deny vaccinations. If you want your child to die of polio and I want mine to die of a crazy neurological disease (or vice versa) than so be it. What's the right answer? The truth is we will in all likelihood never know. I for one do not trust big government and big pharm ... nor do I trust fear-mongering statistics and poorly designed studies.

reply to post by Fiverz


I completely agree with you Fiverz.

When you are given statistic, you need to take a step back for a moment and see what is going on. If any of you ever get the chance, take a class in it. You will learn a lot.

First off, if you look at any graph, table, chart, etc, and they are saying that due to vaccinations children are getting disorders such as ADD and diseases such as cancer, then that is all fine and dandy. This doesn't make it true. There is this thing called causation. And unless there is an experiment of some sort going on, they can make assumptions, but they cannot say that it is surely causing it.

An experiment would be taking a bunch of children, injecting them with vaccines and then seeing what becomes of them and comparing them to children who have not had vaccines. They would also have to account for as many variables as they could, like pollution in the area and cleanliness of the drinking water. A treatment (in this case vaccination) must be imposed to say one thing caused another. What these people have done are studies. This is when one simply looks at information that already exists.

It makes sense when you think about it. Looking at numbers I could make ludicrous statements as well such as, the decrease in the amount of pirates in the world corresponds with the rise in global warming. Looking at numbers, that statement is true. That doesn't mean the decrease in pirates caused global warming.

Until a conclusive experiment is done that can somehow prove that these vaccines are harmful to people, no one can say that vaccines cause problems like this is children. Nor can anyone say that they don't. For now, it is all a theory, with facts that seem misguided.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
Quite right. While I support his right to not vaccinate his kids, I certainly don't want his little virus factories around my kid.

What difference would it make if a "little virus factory" was around your child? Your kid (if vaccinated) is supposedly immune.

Nope. Not immune, at least not to some viruses.

Resistant.

And the more people who contract a virus, the more the virus is likely to mutate, thus making it less susceptable to the vaccination. Ergo, you are better off keeping the majority of people from contracting the virus by vaccinating the most people possible from your original samples.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by NuclearPaul

 

You don't believe the entire Medical Profession is in a Conspiracy with the Government to make us sick or kill us do you? That is far to paranoid for most people to even consider. The incredible number of people who would be in on it boggles the mind.

Please stand by for an insulting, appeal-to-ridicule response from muzzleflash in 3...2...1...

Originally posted by muzzleflash

I didnt throw a 1-liner around. My post was about 7 lines long.

Man, your full of it arent you? Plz stop and realize your actually Lying here.
Blatent Lies. I did NOT post a 1 Liner.

You were deliberately, pointlessly insulting. Your one liner was the "redeculous" (sic) comment.

Please try to be more honest in your future posts.

And please direct those posts to someone else. I am not interested in your non-opinions nor in your attempts at sarcastic humor. If at some point in the future you wish to actually contribute to the conversation, please feel free to do so.

Alright folks, leave the moderating to the moderators and for Pete's sake, CHILL OUT!

I think the key here is 'informed'.

Even if there is only a slight suspicion of problems, then people should be informed of the risk.

They should be informed of the kind of vaccination, the probability that the person will need it, the detail of the age restrictions (we all know children react differently to meds than adults (see Reyes Syndrome)), and the way the shot is prepared and what preservatives are present, and what alternatives are available.

This should all be given up front.

But the medical and gubmint take is 'don't tell them too much or they'll make a fuss'. They talk about 'acceptable losses' and other stuff. We don't consider our children an 'acceptable loss'.

The point is the authorities KNOW what they're doing and they are NOT forthcoming about it.

So it's a good idea to question this stuff, and we should be demanding information - it's clear that the pharmaceutical industry can not be trusted. Who here can't rattle off half a dozen mistakes and recalls and other things they're now being class-action sued for? I see three TV ads for class action suits on this stuff every day!

Why blame people or call them alarmist or tell them they're not reading a chart correctly. Those are just details - the risk is already known, the lies have been documented and there are known conspiracies where people were medicated to their detriment, in secret by the gubmint.

Hospitals kill a lot of people due to medical errors and they are not required to report all of these. I think the last stat I read is that they kill 83,000 people per year due to medical mistakes (preventable mistakes, as well).

There are too many sick people, and they are doing things to make us sicker in the name of 'good of the many' or some kind of screwed up reasoning, istm.

Originally posted by intrepid
Alright folks, leave the moderating to the moderators and for Pete's sake, CHILL OUT!

Sounds good to me.

Does this board have an ignore button? That would make things easier.

Originally posted by Badge01


The point is the authorities KNOW what they're doing and they are NOT forthcoming about it.

I've never had a problem getting information from my doctor. All you really have to do is ask.

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
Does this board have an ignore button? That would make things easier.

Should be in the panel of the member you want to ignore. Unfortunately I don't have that option.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by The Good Reverend Roger
Does this board have an ignore button? That would make things easier.

Should be in the panel of the member you want to ignore. Unfortunately I don't have that option.

Har har! Point taken.

EDIT: Cannot find button. Oh, well, I shall simply ignore this person the old-fashioned way.

[edit on 25-11-2007 by The Good Reverend Roger]

reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger


Are you purposely missing my point? The information should be actively disseminated. A lot of the time people don't know what to ask.

For instance my doc, a good guy, knows I'm medically savvy. Yet he prescribed a 'fluid pill' for me. I thought it was exactly that.

Turned out it was an ACE inhibitor which is a different kind of fluid pill and it causes your potassium to go up.

Why did I have to go research the medicine on the web? Could he have not just told me 'this is different than what you're used to, and here's how it works'.

The point is, he got into 'I'm the doc and I know better' mode and didn't discuss it with me.

There is also a significant danger of renal impairment with this kind of drug, especially if you are taking NSAIDs. He knew I was taking an NSAID because he prescribed it for me.

I don't recall him asking 'is there any family history of renal disease'.

So 'just asking' would not have worked in this instance, because he lead me to believe that it was just a fluid pill, i.e. a diuretic.

The point here is that almost EVERYONE on the forum can relate a story like this that happened to themselves or a loved one wrt to the medical or pharm. community.

However, I wasn't talking about one's family physician - actually I suggested using the family doc as a second opinion on what the School docs wanted if you'd have read my post.

Heck I could tell about a dozen additional stories of medical screw ups.

Here's a funny one. I had a hip injury. The doc I had was the Workman's Comp doctor.

I went to the office and sat down and she came in and asked me about the pain and stuff. Then she tried to palpate (touch) my injured area - but she was trying to do it through my heavy jeans pants!!?

I was stunned? Ordinarily they ask you to disrobe and put on a gown and they'll feel the area directly. I don't know what her problem was. Maybe she was hung up on having a male patient. I know it wasn't a mistake since she did it twice on separate visits, and I could barely feel her touching the side of my leg, so of course I said 'no that doesn't hurt, but you're feeling it through my pants'.

I didn't bother to say anything more because this was so retarded I figured she was a lost cause - I mean should a patient have to tell their doc that they are not going to properly feel an injury through a thick pair of pants?

One doc was trying to test my reflexes with a reflex hammer, but he was not sitting in front of me so he couldn't hit the area at the right angle. Instead of moving his freaking chair over a foot he tried hitting my knee harder. After about the fifth try I actually said 'OW!'.

Did he acknowledge he was doing it wrong? Did he adjust and get the reflex reading. Heck no. He just stopped. And this was supposedly the top sports med guy in the whole area.

So, in case you were serious, no, you've got to know what to ask - since you don't always know and they DO, they should be taught to actively disclose. They don't like doing that because I think it erodes their self-confidence and their aura of 'godliness' or some damn thing.

I haven't had any vaccinations since I was like 4 years old. My immune system and metabolism is very high. I rarely if ever get sick. These laws in the US are getting beyond pathetic.

Rise up to your oppressive government. Tell them you wont take this bull# anymore. And if necessary start a militia and TAKE BACK YOUR COUNTRY FOR GOD SAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!