There is no God, But There Are Kings

Ladies and gentlemen, there is a disturbing trend in atheism today of which stems from the shortsighted outlook of many atheists as to how to defeat “them”. Every pro-atheist book, article, and discussion I have read boils down to proving to the zealots of religion how wrong they are. This action is a waste of time and energy to the cause of atheism. Instead of telling the ignorant masses that God is an illusion, we should be telling them how real Mankind is.

Religion was created to answer man’s then unanswered questions and to set down rules for a productive society. Science has reached point that can answer any question one has about one’s past, present, and future. We are now left with a series of archaic laws that have no basis in real life and cause nothing but oppression in society. Those who continue to believe in a religion burden themselves with unnecessary restraints on their lifestyle. Dogma orders people what to eat, what to wear, whom they should marry, whom they must hate. But Atheism takes away such limiters on a person, providing an infinite amount of choices as how one lives his or her life as they see fit.

The question before all atheists is why do you continue to live, think, and argue like the religious person? How about becoming better than them by taking the path that they cannot? Atheists should not bother to argue with the religious man. They cannot be swayed from their blind path as much as you cannot be swayed from yours. The effort you make arguing with others about the benefits of a God free society could be better spent into improving yourself as a leader they will gladly follow later in life.

If evolution has taught us anything, it the fact that survival goes to the strongest. Thankfully, man’s knowledge of science and technology has removed his basic need for food, shelter, and clothing. In today’s modern society, we face a new kind of survival of the fittest. A man or woman must struggle against the others of the human race in order to fulfill their desires for a productive life. We, atheist and religious alike, fight for our right to have the most desirable mate, to have the grandest house, and to obtain more material wealth. This is basic animal instinct. But what about when your path to your desires is blocked by another who is physically and mentally your equal or greater?

The answer lies in taking advantage of the spiritual weakness of your opponent.

Ultimate moral authority does not bind atheism. A man who does not believe in God has more choices to his problems than a religious man. If to get by in life an atheist has to lie to friend as to where he has been, he does so without regret. If an atheist steals a loaf of bread to feed himself another day, then he will do it without hesitation. If a desirable woman turns down an atheist to engage in sex, he will force himself on her and impregnate her. If an atheist quarrels with another man over possessions and there is not a desirable settlement, the atheist will kill other man and take all of his possessions.

Does this seem repulsive? That’s because religion has warped even the typical atheist’s way of thinking by inventing the abstract concepts “good” and “evil”. Thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s wife, thou shall no bear false witness, etc… These rules have been hammered into our heads since birth. But without God, these rules have no basis in the way the world really works. Organisms kill, get greedy, and deceive all the time in nature. Why should man put a limit to those qualities that are beneficial for his survival?

So I ask again to all atheists out there, why are you thinking and living your life within the boundaries of a religious person? Cheat, steal, and kill more to succeed in life. A true atheist would stop in their climb for personal growth because there will be always one person better that you must overcome. And yes, there are laws, created by the believers, which punish people who do “bad things” in life. But the system punishes only those who get caught. So, if one is committing an act that the religious society deems “wrong” don’t be caught doing it.

With a bit of planning and caution, there is nothing stopping an atheist from doing what he or she deems necessary to fulfill their desires. The only moral authority they must answer to is themselves. By doing so, an Atheist becomes a king among men and rules over others. And thus shall the end of religion come, not by an argument, but by a command.

I was an Atheist and I chose to walk the path that you speak of. Ironically this lead me to believe in God, but not God in the way that religion teaches. I think a lot of people chose to be atheist in order to separate themselves from religion rather than choosing atheism because of philosophical beliefs.

And contrary to what you say, a belief in God does not always limit you, but rather empowers you. However this is usually not the case with religion.

Furthermore, one does not have to harm others in order to achieve their desires. People who do this always end up with severe social and mental problems (Stalin).

Try using the law of attraction. It works every time as long as you have a good intention and doesn't require any belief in god.

Originally posted by Cowboy Clint

Ultimate moral authority does not bind atheism. A man who does not believe in God has more choices to his problems than a religious man. If to get by in life an atheist has to lie to friend as to where he has been, he does so without regret. If an atheist steals a loaf of bread to feed himself another day, then he will do it without hesitation. If a desirable woman turns down an atheist to engage in sex, he will force himself on her and impregnate her. If an atheist quarrels with another man over possessions and there is not a desirable settlement, the atheist will kill other man and take all of his possessions.

You are so, so WRONG.

As an atheist I found most of the very same things religious people think of sin as repulsive acts as well.

NO ATHEIST I HAVE EVER MET would casually LIE, STEAL, KILL, or RAPE ANYONE, EVER.

How can you say an atheist would behave this way? That's utter nonsense! We have morals! We just don't think that we need a supposed written decree from god to know right and wrong... understanding of morality comes from within.

I would venture to say that most atheists act more morally than religious people do. The religious are always ready to go to war with some other group who does not have the same beliefs in god. More murder has been committed in the name of god than for any other reason.

In short, how do you get off telling people that this is what an atheist would do? Neither I nor any atheist I ever looked up to would condone such atrocious behavior.

We feel shame and guilt just like everybody else does, and we also believe there is a difference between right and wrong.

This accusation of indiscriminate criminality is so totally false it makes me sick to hear it.

How sad that people believe that in order to have a relationship with God and His son Christ Jesus, they must follow the false-shepherds of man-made religion. Even sadder than that is that those shepherds are doing such a horrible job at shepherding Christ's flock, that people are literally running the other way and in all different directions to escape it only to be led down the wide path of destruction. The Bible provides us with everything we need to know in order to obtain Eternal Life. Christ showed us The Way, all we have to do is walk it. The Holy Spirit will guide us, all we have to do is ask.

The reason I find this so sad, is because there isn't much time left. We are already experiencing the Tribulation. Soon, Armageddon will be upon us and there's only two things that will save you. Man-made religion plays no part in whether or not we obtain Eternal Life. Nor does Baptism. Or Tithing. Or believing in the falsehood of the Trinity. What will save you is 1) An acceptance of Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior and 2) A good heart condition.

No matter who you are, or what you believe, there is only ONE TRUTH.

For more information on this and to obtain Truth visit: The Kingdom Message

How can you say an atheist would behave this way? That's utter nonsense! We have morals! We just don't think that we need a supposed written decree from god to know right and wrong... understanding of morality comes from within.

Do you, an atheist, refuse to eat beef? Have a fish fry on Friday? Abstain from alcohol? These are “good” morals too, as deemed by various religions. Do you follow them along with not killing, stealing and lying?

Of course not!

Morals are abstract inventions of religion to discourage people to committing the actions which come naturally to all organisms, i.e.: to survive and better themselves. In order to convince people that they should follow these draconian rules, religion offers a reward at the end of good service. The chance to go to heaven, to reincarnated as a better person, etc… But take God out of the equation and the rewards of heaven and reincarnation is meaningless.

Thus, there is no “wrong” you can do. There is only you to decide what is “right” for yourself.

So why do you, an atheist, continue to follow a silly set of laws that offers you no reward and impedes your struggle to improve yourself? If you had the chance to blackmail or kill your boss, get away with the “crime” scott-free, and move up in position with better pay and perks, you should take it. No, you MUST take it. If you deny a chance to improve upon yourself, you are a weak organism who deserves to be used consumed by a stronger organism. (And in that example, that stronger organism would most likely be your boss or co-workers.)

My friend, your thoughts are still trapped in a religious mindset, despite the fact that you claim that you are atheist. If there is no afterlife or reincarnation, then why not take the best you can in this life and hope to pass those improvements it on to your chosen genetic offspring? Once you are dead, you can’t take it with you.

How can you honestly condone murder? do you truly believe that murdering people to get ahead in life wont result in serious psychological consequences? Are there no universal morals that exist at all?

Your type of thinking is very much comparable to Stalin. We all know he had serious mental issues.

Originally posted by Cowboy Clint

Morals are abstract inventions of religion to discourage people to committing the actions which come naturally to all organisms, i.e.: to survive and better themselves. In order to convince people that they should follow these draconian rules, religion offers a reward at the end of good service. The chance to go to heaven, to reincarnated as a better person, etc… But take God out of the equation and the rewards of heaven and reincarnation is meaningless.

Thus, there is no “wrong” you can do. There is only you to decide what is “right” for yourself.

Your darwinian argument falls upon the one that is encrypted within the Christic -not "christian"- path.

Christ - and in some manner others spiritual leaders of the ERA OF FISH - shows an exemple of what "he" calls the "Son of Humankind". Precisely a humanity composed of selfless people that have given up negative animal aspect of its primal nature, that lead to :

1 - murder - by war - through nations/states/empires
2 - murder - by society - through laws
3 - murder - by persons - through anomy

... and all that ensues on a social and moral plane in terms of unjustice and violation of the person.

You can live free from all "christiAN brotherhood", or religion from any obedience, and be fully christIC.

The question of God's existence is not, to me, an atheistic question. That's a LOGICAL evidence : you didn't created the universe, but the universe does exist, intelligence is one ot its configurations, an effect of its very nature, and so this whole, this system does manifest a project through my own existence (and destiny or experience on a spiritual plan), so It is fully packed from alpha (big bang or birth) to omega (future of humanity/universe/person>death or beyond) with Intelligence. Period. And don't speak to me of any sophism, the formulation does'nt matter here - you have to feel it to understand it - what could be called faith.

Everyone proud of a skeptic, scientist, atheist view of the world should read Teilhard de Chardin's books [ The Human Phenomenon specially] - one of the greatest promoter of the NOOSPHERE concept, and if totally scentific in his approaches, stands as totally christic in his "theo-philosophical" thesis. Without preaching any kind of "moraline".

All that said, the feeling of BEING THE ULTIMATE PROOF of God, and that this brings as much possibilities that responsabilities as everyone become an ACTIVE PART OF A DIVINE PROJECT THAT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE MATERIALIZE, - well that makes life somewhat more sexy that feeling as a piece of random material growing on the back of a big ball of s***.

Atheists never catch that their view is poorer that mysticotheospiritualist - and please don't speak to me of sunday bigots that bring their a$* in any church in the name of any lordy marechal as a purely ethnic social ritual. Obviously America is eaten from inside by those kind of impostors make this kind of thread understable, as false-religiousness indeedly seems closely linked to the problematic of power out there.

Anyhow, those, forgetter of the Golden Mean, who believe human life reduces to some animalistic game should realize that not only their bodies are incredibly complexely ruled without the help of their own bright intelligences, but their "spirit", as the non-directly-material part of their experience - and so all of it, in some ways - opens the ways of some truly over-mundain realities, or "realms of experience", that nobody knows of before having truly experienced them. I can "think" of something that isn't here : think and meditate about it, dudes. Some guys like Soravardhi wrote entire "books" on that only question. For beginners, the thing is to behave in the mental world oppositely to the way we normally behave in the external world. Then the doors begins to open up...


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Rigel]

I've been lurking here for a few months, and this thread finally warranted registering.

The OP is either a very misguided atheist, or a very clever troll.

With that said, he does have several valid points. Without religion, who decides where society's moral compass points? You can say murder is wrong, and theft is wrong, and rape is wrong, but how exactly did you come to that conclusion? If not through religion, then through your own personal beliefs, which are no more valid than mine, or the OP's, or anyone else's. Preen and posture all you want, but in the end we're all just animals, with a thin coating of "civility" to protect our fragile egos. That's not to say we should act like animals, because we know better and therefore have the responsibility to rise above our base urges.

Please note, I don't agree with what the OP is saying, because I'm almost certain he's just a "religious zealot", trolling to tick people off. But when you really give it some thought, it's kind of scary just how little we differ from wild animals.

An interesting and well done thread Cowboy, whatever your motives. I would just like to point out that even outside of ‘religion’ morality is a beneficial and necessary component of a highly functioning society. The reason you don’t murder and rape and whatever else is because you don’t want those things being done to you and yours. Business and commerce are severely restricted if you can’t trust anyone to do business with. The reason the human race is so successful is because we have learned to cooperate, and that means following certain ‘rules’. Not everyone will conform, obviously. But the more that do, the more successful the culture and society will be. On the other hand, there is point of diminishing returns with rules, where initiative and proper self interest are suppressed. At any rate, this has been very thought provoking , THX.

THough I find your thread "Absolutely self imposed redundency", you are the acquisitor to the topic, you somehow manage to blow your thought's to the porportions of the definative arguement's of being "Religous".
I am Atheist, I wasn't (I thought) at one time, I am not anything you proclaim to for a description of a Atheist. Your mode of intellectual disinformation is almost laughable, but yet acceptable. Apparently you find yourself as better than other's, such as Atheist's and the like? Sounds to me like you have an evaluation going thru your thought's of who you are and what it takes to make you a "Whole and Acceptable individual in your own eye's and thoughts."
If you look at it from my point of view, "I am real, I am a live, I am kind and courtious to fellow man." All that without the confussion of your religous belief systems and analogies.
If push comes to shove, you are totally entitled to your opinion. But to allow yourself to make statements that disregard the feeling's and capabilities of others that are not so much like you is a testiment to your character and should be viewed by you as the "Assumer" of matter's you don't entirely understand.
Alot of priest's being accused of sexual and immoral acts, suppose you think they are Athiest in the making? I wouldn't doubt it, if you do think that way. But, "Who am I to "Assume" your thought's or intention's?"
Atheists are human, just like you. You have the ability to destroy or create as just like anyone that romes the earth, if there is one time I wish do something that would be negative, I realise it is in my thought's before it becomes a reality and until that mistake is made, I am in "Control" of the future , one way or the other, I pay for how I react to my ways of thinking. Just like you cowboy......"I am only human with a different out look on life when it comes to a religous belief system."

"Thought's of the mind produce after thier kind." S. Freud

"A man who knows men has knowledge, but a man who knows himself has insight...." RAMI

Originally posted by Kranil
Without religion, who decides where society's moral compass points?

That statement makes the assumption that SOMEBODY has to decide, and the rest will follow.


Nonsense.


WE... ALL... KNOW... RIGHT FROM WRONG.


Right is doing whatever makes you happy. Wrong is what hurts others.

Do what's in between.

That's it!

To the mods---

I think this thread should be deleted because this is a family site and i don't think our younger members need to ponder on this post. this is one mentally unstable person here. The prisons are full of people who think like he does.
I could have a field day with this post but i don't want to fuel the fire, so to speak.
I hope many of you will ignore this person to as this is going to turn out to be one hot topic if we don't.
what a sad start to the day.

[edit on 25-11-2007 by jon1]

Originally posted by dionysius9

That statement makes the assumption that SOMEBODY has to decide, and the rest will follow.


Nonsense.


WE... ALL... KNOW... RIGHT FROM WRONG.


Right is doing whatever makes you happy. Wrong is what hurts others.

Do what's in between.

That's it!

I didn't really mean that some one person, or even one group, should make the rules for society, I was just illustrating a point. I feel the same way you do, if everyone lived according to that value I think the world would be a little friendlier.