Ancient Astronauts Evidence

Originally posted by Hanslune

If one scholar makes the assumption that "Horus flew out into the Nightsea" refers to some mythological place, it is my right to make the assumption that that refers to space. Or not?

You can believe whatever you want the problem is you applying your beliefs and knowledge onto an Egyptian writer - who had no idea of what space was- all he saw was a night sky - he didn't know what we knew.

Of course the Ancients had no idea of what wonders we are aware of. That's why one of the titles of the Pharaohs was "Lord of the Orbit" and why the Old Testament includes references to the Earth hanging in the sky, it being round, and it moving through (the) um... heaven(s).

AS IF we are the first technological civilisation, or even the greatest. Gimme a break.

Originally posted by DogHead
Of course the Ancients had no idea of what wonders we are aware of. That's why one of the titles of the Pharaohs was "Lord of the Orbit" and why the Old Testament includes references to the Earth hanging in the sky, it being round, and it moving through (the) um... heaven(s).

AS IF we are the first technological civilisation, or even the greatest. Gimme a break.

Got references for these, or did you think we'd take your word for it, or what?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

But I'm not talking about disbelief here. I'm saying there's no reason to believe it.

If there were no reason to believe it, then I wouldnt believe it, would I? Every action is motivated by a REASON.

My reason for pursuing the ancient astronaut theory were encounters with a few high ranking university people and egyptologists that were scared to death of speaking out. Of course I wont tell their names on some anonymous internet forum, I will protect them. But those encounters are what originally motivated me to look into it all. There´s your REASON.

There is a very real cover-up of our history going on and the people who help continue that cover-up are not all disinfo-agents...they are mostly the brainwashed sheep who have bought into either schoolbook-history or religion. There is a very real agenda for worldview-control perpetuated by islam and christianity.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Harte
But I'm not talking about disbelief here. I'm saying there's no reason to believe it.

If there were no reason to believe it, then I wouldnt believe it, would I? Every action is motivated by a REASON.

Hardly. I mean, unless you count "I just want to believe it" as a reason.

Originally posted by SkyfloatingMy reason for pursuing the ancient astronaut theory were encounters with a few high ranking university people and egyptologists that were scared to death of speaking out. Of course I wont tell their names on some anonymous internet forum, I will protect them. But those encounters are what originally motivated me to look into it all. There´s your REASON.

Really? Well, I am in daily contact with various alien life forms here on Earth and they tell me they've been watching us for millions of years and no extraterrestrial has ever made contact with anyone or anything here until they contacted me.

Of course, I have to protect them so I can't tell you their names!

So, there's your REASON!

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Really? Well, I am in daily contact with various alien life forms here on Earth and they tell me they've been watching us for millions of years and no extraterrestrial has ever made contact with anyone or anything here until they contacted me.

Of course, I have to protect them so I can't tell you their names!

So, there's your REASON!

Some at ATS provide documentation, research and sincere inquiry, some provide scoffing and ridicule. I doubt if the latter leads to learning anything though.

reply to post by Harte


I feel sorry for people like you i honestly do. Trapped inside a prison that has either been created by yourself, religion, or the disposable society we live in. It doesn't really matter how really.

I question everything in this world because nothing makes 100% sense. It probably never will. See the thing is the world is alot more complicated than people think, and trying to find one certified conclusion on things is nonsense.

We allow governments to lie to us, companies to use us and rip us off, financial institutions to rob us blind. The world is a giant con, it motivator, the almighty dollar. The elite laugh at us, we are just pawns in their games. And you expect we should believe that everything we know, our entire history is absolute? The truth is our society has been manipulated for centuries by the people at the top. Religions, Kings, dictators and other rich folkes and secret societies have been conning us for years. You can expect to find that certain aspects of our history have been tweaked here and there to benefit a few handful of people over the years. An example of this is religion.

You have to ask yourself why was science considered a crime during the dark ages? Because religious leaders feared it would expose them. Why is it almost criminal now to question our government? It most cetainly will be a few years from now you can bet on that.

So i ask you this, why can't we access anything about our society that is older than 6000 years even though there we complex written languages and methods of keeping records and sophistacted societies.

One would also assume that if egyptians could use and understand the math involved with building the pyramids and having knowledge of some pretty slick engineering, it would have kept records of the hundreds if not thousands of years it took to aquire that information as it did for us.

The answer is simple yet real hard for some people to understand. I dont blame you for it though. As long as religious orders and corrupt governments still have power in society we will never know the truth about how we really came to be or perhaps what we once were.

The worlld in which we live does not revolve around the advancement of our species but rather to serve the needs of the people who are in charge.

And if you want to comment on how unscientific i sound go ahead, im a tradesman not a scientist.

(Sorry, I have not read all of the thread yet, but I intend to. I just want to say some of my two cents while I have time to do so.)

From what I read, there seems to be lots of debate about the Egyptians knowledge of the universe. People seem to not be able to tell if the Egyptians knew of empty space or not. All I can say is, yes they did, they were the first to use zero, (remember, to this day we are using the ancient Egyptians math) zero can only be understood through the knowledge of void. They knew the earth was round, they knew that the starts where places, note the positions of where the pyramids point. What this adds to the argument is, the Egyptians knew a lot, sure they didn't have planes, but they did understand aerodynamics. Their math is our math, they are basically the founders of our most basic and well used and most solid sciences we have today. They even knew things that today we don't know and most likely understood their own advanced mathematical theories better than we do today. This being said, you have to consider that Egyptians looked on to the world with just as much clarity and understanding as we do today, if not more.

Forgot to add: There has been much research on this theory. Note the book called "the chariot of the gods" also note that stargate (yes the movie and the show.) was based on real research that 2 archologists wanted to get money for to fund their research. There was also a grand meeting this last october on considering changing the look on how technology advanced through history to note that some acient cultures knew alot more then previously thought.

Also to add my personal oppinoin. There still is a large gap time that our homo sapien sapien form was around and had plenty of time to develop advanced civilizations and then die off. You must remember human kind has had our current advanced complete brain for a long time. Remeber our current level only took 2k years, and there is like what (sorry I don't know the exact amounts.) like 20k years of homo sapein sapeins being around. that is enough time for at least 5 civilizations as advanced as ours to form and then die off. Not saying their were, but you still have to concider this.
[edit on 13-1-2008 by halfmask]

[edit on 13-1-2008 by halfmask]

[edit on 13-1-2008 by halfmask]

reply to post by halfmask

Also to add my personal oppinoin. There still is a large gap time that our homo sapien sapien form was around and had plenty of time to develop advanced civilizations and then die off

Yes this is exactly my point. There is also alot of research and evidence into the fact that even though our life expectancy is higher, we are genetically inferior to humans 10000 years ago. It is even suggested that average intelligence level is declining due to the fact that we depend more on technology and others to perform work for us and rarely have to fully solve any problem on our own.

Also what we consider to be ancient civilizations actually appeared rather suddenly in history. We have plenty of understand of how ancient societies lived but know nothing on how most of them came to be. This is also very true for south american cultures. Most of the theories are just speculation and there are huge gaps between human development and human society.

One must also consider a global catastrophe. There is must evidence to support a global flood anywhere from 10000-12000 years ago. Something like that would have not only wiped out society at the time, but most evidence of it even existing. Flowing waters would have eroded and displaced just about everything you can think of and left little evidence of technology. The only things to survive would be more rugged structures such as stone buildings, carvings, foundations, statutes, anything buried, etc. It would also seriously throw off methods of dating artifacts and buildings. All this would lead us to believe there were no advanced technologies at the time.

These avenues of thought also lead down many different roads and conclusions however, they give more perspective than we have now. You would think that ancient societies such as the egyptians would keep a better record of the thousands of years before them. What bothers me about ancient civilization is that their creation stories sound asif either someone had created them or helped them along. The Mayans believed that they were the legacy of their gods, those who came before them. Their gods made numerous failed attemps at creating them and enlisted the help of many more gods in the creation process.

Why do all previous religions contain multiple gods and ranking systems throughout the godly community. Some gods were actually more like us and had no powers of any sorts. Also they speak of god/human hybrids that in some cases surpassed the powers of some full gods.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


I read your recent thread lamenting the closed-mindedness of pseudoskeptics.

But it looks as if its not just "closed-mindedness" but deliberate campaigning against the theory from christian-and-islamic sources. One of my goals will be to prove this cover-up in the form of an article or book someday.

Thanks for your great contributions.

I was reading the wikipedia-entry "ancient egypt" the other day and had a good laugh. From that article alone it is painfully apparent how little our current scientific establishment actually knows about our past. The text is full of "probably", "maybe", "suddenly civilization appeared", ""the egyptians must have gotten their accounts wrong" and other such nonsense. And all of this confusion only happens because some people are unwilling to fathom the idea of OTHER advanced civilizations than their own current one. Maybe its a narcisstic psychological issue of needing not only to be the center of the universe but also the only civilization that achieved technology.

Maybe we could find answer about ancient astronaut in our DAN.
Let’s face it; all the scientists are baffled about 95% of our DNA is been switch off.
What scientist had come up with is supply to call all off-genome, junk DNA.
This is what happens when we have no clue.
Further more only human have so many switches off DNA.
And many other aspect of the modern man doesn’t make sense.
One of them is the sudden emergence of civilisation just after the last ice age where before that the humans where only food gatherer and hunter.
These phenomena of sudden burse of knowledge in all fronts contradict the slow process of evolutionary progression.
The question of where we come from is been pushed to us right in front of our eyes and logic.
For me it seems that something external of the human capability has been playing a great roll in our evolution.

Kacou

Originally posted by SkyfloatingMy reason for pursuing the ancient astronaut theory were encounters with a few high ranking university people and egyptologists that were scared to death of speaking out. Of course I wont tell their names on some anonymous internet forum, I will protect them. But those encounters are what originally motivated me to look into it all. There´s your REASON.

Originally posted by Harte
Really? Well, I am in daily contact with various alien life forms here on Earth and they tell me they've been watching us for millions of years and no extraterrestrial has ever made contact with anyone or anything here until they contacted me.

Of course, I have to protect them so I can't tell you their names!
So, there's your REASON!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Some at ATS provide documentation, research and sincere inquiry, some provide scoffing and ridicule. I doubt if the latter leads to learning anything though.

And some can't take it when somebody else (besides themselves) makes some baseless claim that cannot be checked because they are too lazy to do the research that is necessary for them to be able to provide evidence that might support their point of view.

If you run a search here at ATS for my posts, I'm sure you will see that I have provided more documentation and have evinced far more "sincere" inquiry, at least as regards my posts in this forum, than you or (probably) any other poster in this thread!

However, my response to your crapola about "people you know" is the response you deserved. If you can't back it up, why are you saying it?

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by Harte

 

I feel sorry for people like you i honestly do. Trapped inside a prison that has either been created by yourself, religion, or the disposable society we live in. It doesn't really matter how really.

I'll forgive you for that now, because you probably haven't read much of my stuff here - there's a lot of it and I've been absent lately.

I won't forgive it again if you pull this sort of personal attack out on me again.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000I question everything in this world because nothing makes 100% sense. It probably never will. See the thing is the world is alot more complicated than people think, and trying to find one certified conclusion on things is nonsense.

I'm glad you question everything. Now if you would just make some slight effort to find answers you might see where I'm coming from.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000And you expect we should believe that everything we know, our entire history is absolute?

Straw man. You do know what I mean by that don't you?

Originally posted by metaldemon2000You have to ask yourself why was science considered a crime during the dark ages? Because religious leaders feared it would expose them.

Moreover, I also must ask myself why science is "considered a crime" by posters (such as yourself) here at ATS.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000 So i ask you this, why can't we access anything about our society that is older than 6000 years even though there we complex written languages and methods of keeping records and sophistacted societies.

Because there were not "complex written languages?"

Who is preventing you from "accessing" something about some ancient society? Nobody. You are only limited by your own desire, or lack thereof.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000One would also assume that if egyptians could use and understand the math involved with building the pyramids and having knowledge of some pretty slick engineering, it would have kept records of the hundreds if not thousands of years it took to aquire that information as it did for us.

Are you not aware that we do already know that the Egyptians in fact possessed all the math they needed to build the pyramids?

As a teacher of mathematics, I could enlighten you if only you could open your mind to the possibilities of human capabilities.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
And if you want to comment on how unscientific i sound go ahead, im a tradesman not a scientist.

Thanks for your permission, but I don't look down on tradesmen, just on people that refuse to have the "open mind" that they claim to have.

Harte

[edit on 1/14/2008 by Harte]

reply to post by Harte


I looked at the four threads you authored in the last few years. Youve done your research yes. No need to denigrate the research Ive done, though.

Are you aware that ancient egyptian leftovers have been hijacked by muslim arabs and are you aware that in "modern" egypt you can get killed for proposing theories counter to islamic religion?

reply to post by Harte


You are missing the point entirely. Just another poster like walsky, or perhaps that was your other account as it was a newer account.
And what won't you forgive me for? I wasn't "attacking" you so you can relax now.

You are seriously missing the point, these arguments can go on endlessly. First walsky and now you i mean cmon already. BTW i must add i see similarities in your posts and choice of words. But im not going to comment further on that.

The poster created this post to exchange information with people interested in the topic.
You don't see me busting into a star trek convention with a t-shirt that says "Shatner sucks" or busting up a gay bar because i didn't like the show Will and Grace.

The point is your not going to get your point across so seriously just throw in the towel, i dont go into your posts and start terrorizing people do i? Seriously if you feel that bad about it make your own post and call it " I hate aliens, reptiles, astronauts, cowboys and Santa Clause"

Im sorry if i am sounding abit harsh however, i was looking forward to this topic origionally and it is being ruined for me. Dont think this changes anything though, if anything you have elevated my suspicion of a cover up, or disinfo agents that i had previously thought to be hogwash untill this thread.

Anyways if you feel as if i have attacked you than whatever. I am just expressing my frustration in regards to what has transpired here. Kinda like when a cetain group of morons crash a party and it goes bad.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by Harte

 

You are missing the point entirely. Just another poster like walsky, or perhaps that was your other account as it was a newer account.
And what won't you forgive me for? I wasn't "attacking" you so you can relax now.

I take offense at the following:

I feel sorry for people like you i honestly do. Trapped inside a prison that has either been created by yourself, religion, or the disposable society we live in. It doesn't really matter how really.

And this:

The answer is simple yet real hard for some people to understand. I dont blame you for it though. As long as religious orders and corrupt governments still have power in society we will never know the truth about how we really came to be or perhaps what we once were.

That is condescending. Like I said, I forgive it this time. Not again.

You're assuming I'm parroting someone's argument for the orthodox view when what I'm doing is providing information. Exactly what the O.P. wanted.

Not my fault if you don't want to know the facts that have been uncovered.

Believe it or not, I entered into this debate in 1983. I've been looking at these claims since then. I started out much like you. Eventually I found I'd been lied to. I resented that - like Walsky - (no, I'm not her - but thanks for the compliment.)

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
You are seriously missing the point, these arguments can go on endlessly.

This is true. Every month or so some new poster comes on here and tries to rehash an argument that was settled years ago - mainly because they have never looked into any of the multitude of reasons that these arguments are fallacious.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000The point is your not going to get your point across so seriously just throw in the towel, i dont go into your posts and start terrorizing people do i? Seriously if you feel that bad about it make your own post and call it " I hate aliens, reptiles, astronauts, cowboys and Santa Clause"

Straw man again?

I disagree. I have gotten my point across quite clearly. My concern is not to convince everybody but to provide the evidence against these silly arguments in the threads where they occur. This is due to my trouble in the past finding the scientific arguments that tend to discount the fabulous ideas of pseudoscience.

If you use Google on, say, "Ancient Astronauts," one or two out a million returns will present both sides of the argument. The rest just give one side. ATS appears in some of those Google returns. I'm putting the other side of the argument into future Google searches. I couldn't care less if I change your thinking (such as it is.)

Originally posted by metaldemon2000Im sorry if i am sounding abit harsh however, i was looking forward to this topic origionally and it is being ruined for me.

The "party" is what's bad. It needs to be crashed.

Also, I also "looked forward to this topic" myself, only it was decades ago. Turned out that the entire thing was a facade for a moneymaking scheme. That ruins it, alright, if you feel like you have to believe it at any cost. Even at the cost of discounting the work of people that have spent their entire lives bent over in the desert trying like hell to answer the very questions you yourself pose.

Harte

[edit on 1/15/2008 by Harte]

reply to post by Harte


Alright, lets push the re-start button on this entire debate, ok? We both acknowledge are differing views on history.

The very basic, level 1 idea here is: We do not know what evidence will surface in the next few 100 years as our methods of research improve. I wouldnt be surprised if we find that we are not the first advanced civilization on earth nor the only advanced civilization in the universe.

I think that is a fair and valid statement.

The big question is: What is the use in stifling extrapolation from that basic idea?

Yes there have been many road blocks to what we know of discovered history, but we have overcame many of them to get where we are. Ignoring what humanity has accomplished in favor or ones personal world view as many believers have done is a disservice to us all. Statements like, "You aren't going to win, so throw in the towel" or "We don't know what will be found in the future" are tantamount, to me, to saying, "We believe what is convenient to our own personal worldviews, regardless of facts, because it makes us feel better about our place in the scheme of things". If a person used what is known of history as the center point for asking their, "What if's" or "Could it have happened this way", I believe they would serve themselves and others much better. My 2 cents.

reply to post by cormac mac airt


So you are saying to me "cease and desist speculation!"

Nothing new discovered with that approach.

I say "Lets see if we may not be the first advanced people on earth"

and then I have a bunch of people coming here telling me there is no reason to look for that or that its silly to do so.

Am I in the middle ages here or something???? "Its silly to look outside of the earth. Nothing to see there. The earth is flat".

No, I am not saying, "cease speculating". What I am saying is, "Don't discard the facts because you don't like them" and "Don't present your speculations as if they are verified facts". That's really not that hard to do.

Every single piece of evidence for the ancient astronaut theory brought forward in this Forum is QUICKLY dismissed by certain people here.

Its not "hm, maybe. Lets have a look at it". Its always categorically "no!". Bring the next piece and its "No!" and so forth.

Dismissiveness is certainly not a scientific attitude.

Skyfloating,

I understand what you are saying and in some cases there is much more "Dismissiveness" than is called for. However, when a person makes a broad statement like, "such and such civilization just seems to have happened overnight", that tells me and others that that person really has no understanding of the culture that lived there nor its predecessors. Their "research" was extremely lacking, to say the least. You want answers, fine, we all do. Also, many of us "non-believers" have been researching this stuff for years, sometimes decades. Our understanding of events has changed as well, just not to the point where we will believe anything without proof.