How could Jesus die for my sins, when I wasn't even born during his time?

How could Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born during his time which was thousands of years ago?

If He knew what my sins would be then that would suggest that everything is preordained or basically our lives are planned and we have no free will further suggesting that our sins are already written into our life's script(If thats what you want to call it.) for which we can not be held accountable.

If He did not know we were going to sin, but died anyway, then that is suicide.
How could God accept a human sacrifice to write off future debts?

[edit on 22-11-2007 by jca2005]

I think the reasoning they use is that we are all born sinners.

Gareth.

Every sin comes from the following categories; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

Specific sins are just sub-categories contained within these. Eve fell for every one of these in the garden when pursuaded by the serpent and Adam followed suit.
Jesus denied every one of these in the desert for 40 days, remaining sinless and then took upon himself, not by commiting sin, but placing them on himself, every sin we could ever commit( just like the passover lamb and the scapegoat) and died in judgement of God for them.
He knows almost ALL, but we have freewill which allows us several options for our lives.
Asking him to forgive us and follow him is what he asks in return. Taste and see that the Lord is good.

Well why would god need jesus for sacrifice? That just doesn't make any sense. Basically "Jesus" commited suicide.

reply to post by Clearskies


Actually if you look at how it is presented, all Eve really did was eat the fruit She herself didn't fall until after Adam ate it. Just something to consider.

As to how he could die for your sins jca, it is rather simple you are human and are going to sin. So it doesn't matter whether he knew which ones specifically you were going to commit, his death was to cover all of mans sin. The reason for the need has to do with the various sacrifices of the Jews in accordance with the Law God had given them. Up until this point the animal sacrificed was always an unblemished one. Jesus now being the perfect sinless man, would be the same in representation as the blemish free man. And would take the place of all the animal sacrifices needed to fulfill the Law. This is why to a Christian it is essential to believe on Jesus for your salvation.

how can an immortal being actually "die" in the first place.
the whole situation really just seems like a bit of a con.

i'm going to die so that i can forgive you for something and at the same time force you into a situation where you're forever in my debt for it.

Jesus died to remove Original sin from mankind. This is the sins he died for because the original sin was spread upon each man.

reply to post by Incarnated


um... how?
how do we have original sin when the story of original sin is inherently contradictory to..well..reality.


i thought jesus specifically argued against hereditary sin... ya know, all of that healing sick folk stuff...

Originally posted by jca2005
How could Jesus die for my sins when I wasn't even born during his time which was thousands of years ago?

If He knew what my sins would be then that would suggest that everything is preordained or basically our lives are planned and we have no free will further suggesting that our sins are already written into our life's script(If thats what you want to call it.) for which we can not be held accountable.

If He did not know we were going to sin, but died anyway, then that is suicide.
How could God accept a human sacrifice to write off future debts?

[edit on 22-11-2007 by jca2005]

What I do today or tomorrow or the next year already happened relative to God. God is not contained in time. He is above time. He knows our future. He knows what you are going to do next and if he left us alone, we will die for eternity. For man's heart is evil continually, that is the human nature.

He stepped in, died for all of our sins, and conquered death for everyone and whoever believes in Him, will be saved. That is all thats required. No amount of good you do will ever meet the requirement of God's Holiness. Only Jesus can do it for us.

Try to picture yourself today. I'm sure many of us wants to change the bad things that happened to us in the past. We would correct the wrongs so that we will have a better, if not, the best future. If only you could have the power to go back to the past and change events, you would do it. If only you could have warned a loved one to avoid an accident that caused his death, you would have warned him before it happened.

I think this movie is an example : Next - movies.aol.com...

God knows that everyone will die, Christian or not, that is everyone's destiny. But He gave hope to everyone who believes in Him to live again and have an eternal, non corruptible body. A body which can no longer sin, can never get sick, and can no longer die. This is the future that already happened to those who are in Christ.

Originally posted by amitheone

He stepped in, died for all of our sins, and conquered death for everyone and whoever believes in Him, will be saved. That is all thats required. No amount of good you do will ever meet the requirement of God's Holiness. Only Jesus can do it for us.

This is the concept that bothers me about Christianity. You can be the most charitable person in the world, but God cares more about your worship than your righteousness? Sounds like an excuse to sin to me. This is why many Christians can be some of te most shrewed and mean people, yet it's ok because they praise Jesus. Sounds like a load of BS to me.

No disrespect to you at all amitheone by the way, I do respect your right to your spirituality. It's just my opinion.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
This is the concept that bothers me about Christianity. You can be the most charitable person in the world, but God cares more about your worship than your righteousness?

Misconception No. 1 - Christians do good works to be saved or to be guaranteed a place in heaven.

Know the difference and hear clearly. It is the name of Jesus that saves, not what you do righteously. Our righteousness are like rags to God.

It is not the wires which gives light to the bulb, but the battery. The wire doesn't give electricity, but the battery, which gives the energy. Translation : It is not your righteousness which gives you life, but Jesus. Your righteousness doesn't give life, but Jesus, who gives life eternal.

Even the most generous and charitable Christian knows that what he does good doesn't save him. We don't do good works in order to be saved, we believe in His name in order to be saved. The good work we do afterwards is the work of the Holy Spirit. There's no merit in us whatsoever. There's nothing to brag about. There's no trophy or applause. Any good works we do is for His glory, not ours to claim.

Misconception No. 2 - All non-Christians are condemned forever.

God has already planned this out. There will be people who did not accept Jesus beforehand, but only during the Great Tribulation. During this intense cosmic calamity where the Earth will burn like an oven, thinning atmosphere, extreme earthquakes, violent volcanic eruptions, hail fire, and etc. there will be millions of millions of people who will finally cry out the name of Jesus to save them, for anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. They will give glory to God, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb."

But, only for the sake of the elect, the 144K Jews, who cried out, will this calamity be stopped, otherwise no one will be saved.

These are the Great Multitude in white robes from every nation, tribe, people and language who came out of the Great Tribulation.

Don't count yourself out dude. Atheist, Buddhist, Hindus, Taoist, cults, pagans and etc. will populate the millennium. The evidence you are searching for will be on the Throne. Everyone will be a given a chance and new life with God.

Sounds like an excuse to sin to me.

Misconception No. 3 - Christians can never sin.

People do commonly mistaken that Christians are immune to doing things contrary to Christianity. People think Christians are all goody goody, holier than though. I tell you the truth, we are human, we are subject to sin. We are not perfect, we are just like the rest of humanity subject to weaknesses and temptations. We are sinners just like the rest of the people on Earth.

One thing different about us. We struggle with our sinful nature. Our conscience bothers a lot more and it torments us every time we sin. Unlike before, everything is no holds barred, no one to be accountable for. Its tough being a Christian as it requires self control and discipline for a lifetime.

Romans 7

" 14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

This is why many Christians can be some of te most shrewed and mean people, yet it's ok because they praise Jesus. Sounds like a load of BS to me.

Misconception No. 4 - Christians are all the same.

Anyone can claim to be a Christian, that's very easy. Anyone can go to a church and sing praises to His name, that's very easy. If one just joins this like joining a mickey mouse club, then I don't think he is serious about it. He has but a false conversion.

Bear this in mind, it is impossible for a Christian to change overnight. It takes a life time of reformation. There's no such thing as a 5 minute Christian. You take the plunge in the pool, get baptized, and viola, a new you??? This is a misconception. It only symbolizes a new life. The old you is still there, you only feel the euphoria, nothing else. You still have a lifetime to walk and each one God deals individually as each person is different.

I hope this has shed light to you.

[edit on 26-11-2007 by amitheone]

reply to post by jca2005


Hi jca2005/

Jesus Christ being the Son of God,the Logos(the Word)was God in human form.
All three, yet ONE .
the Lord, is called “the Word” or “the Logos” in the Bible.
God is the Word (John 1:1).
God the Word became flesh, became man (John 1:14)
Therefore if Jesus Christ is God in human form(beheld two natures)He did not require Human Sacrifice, but gave mankind a second chance to be re united with the first creation, before sin.
Sin.......we do not carry the Original sin of Adam and Eve.
We have a choice
Adam and Eve were given a commandment and failed.....therefore disrupted nature and all with it....this led man's DEATH of body and soul from closeness of God.
''God, in His compassion, began to call them to repentance, that is, for men to realize their sin, admit it before the Lord, and ask for forgiveness.
But each person blamed one another, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.(as many do so today)
Sin brought DEATH......And Death caused man's separation from God.
''"for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Gen. 3:16-19).
discussion on sin
The only way to bring back man to their former, was to take the sins of man to Himself......this was explained in the Old Testament.
''"Death, where is thy sting?
Where is thy victory? (I Corinthians 15:55)This is sung at Pascha(Easter)......Resurrection of Christ
DEATH was conquered by God.

helen

Amitheone, You don't need to paint a picture for me I get it. Yes, I understand that doing good is not what saves you. I am saying that I just can't believe in a God that cares more about how you worship him than how much good you are doing in the world.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
Amitheone, You don't need to paint a picture for me I get it. Yes, I understand that doing good is not what saves you.

I'm glad to hear you understood. Thanks for reading.

I am saying that I just can't believe in a God that cares more about how you worship him than how much good you are doing in the world.

Simply because everyone in this world is a sinner. No matter how much good you do, you are still a sinner. Mention a person to me in this world who haven't sin. Mention to me a charitable, kind hearted, and honorable person in this world who haven't sin, past and present time. If you have found one, then I stand corrected and the bible is false.

It only through faith in Jesus Christ that your sins will be forgiven. There is no other name in heaven in which man can be saved.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
I am saying that I just can't believe in a God that cares more about how you worship him than how much good you are doing in the world.

It isn't that he cares more how you worship him, just that you do. But when matters more is when nothing good can come from you, every good work you do is to satisfy yourself and your goals otherwise. Would you prefer the gift given because someone felt they had to or because the person actually cared about you? This is how Christians believe God feels about it.

The idea that we're born with "original sin" is as ridiculous as the story of Adam & Eve, from which the concept of original sin is derived.

You've got to really want to believe that stuff to actually believe it.

Now the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the other hand...

We as beings didn't come into existance because of our birth rather we were born because we exist.

Jesus was born into existance and died in the confusion of existance to over take death and loss of self that happens in the rebirthing process that is the punishment for the sin of speration for "The Source" or "The One" aka God.

I never said that people don't sin, of course people sin. I just think that being a generally good person and performing charitable work and good deeds should far outweigh the occasional "sinning" that people do that is brought on by normal biological and societal temptation from time to time.

Jovi, do you really feel that all people only do good to satisfy themselves?

reply to post by Kruel



100% agreed. to the OP, don't let 'them' lay this trip on you....jesus did not die for any of our sins...it is a fairy tell that has been told for years so it must be true eh?

the whole adam and eve deal=


from my main dude

---The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your #ing mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.
Interview, Playboy, May 2, 1993
----

So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb # and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity.
--------

quoes by FZ

reply to post by Boondock78


I'm a woman and Jeshua has given me MORE knowledge than I EVER had before, granted I don't know how to make a pipe out of a coke can to smoke weed like I used to or how to be paranoid out of my mind anymore,......

You fail to see that Had Adam and Eve taken from the tree of life (Jesus, Jeshua) They would have lived forever without sin!

They chose the worst one because Eve fell for the You'll be like God, he's trying to keep you down, argument.

Being good is all I used to try to do. "Be a good person." However at some point you'll realize that you can't be perfect, that's why you need help from God by His Son, Jeshua.