Civil War USA

Originally posted by SpaceBits
A civil war is citizens against citizens.
you dont need a civil war and one will only cause the Nazi Administration... i mean the Bush Administration to induce a police state or rush to a NWO.
what america need is a peaceful revolution to let the world know that americans do not trust there government anymore and you's want change for the good of america and not for the bad.

Like i posted earlier put America at a stand still, shut down the state for a day or two, you are in need of a major revolution to get rid of theses "evil do gooders" as buch even said...

Also i was just wondering why he is still in power... he wasnt voted in and yet he is pres? and when it was time to vote him out he declare a stat of emergency so that he can stay in office even longer and create even more damage?

Wake up america before you lose your country to a facist government.

Nazi Administration. Cute. Well, I don't mind being called a Nazi. Not too many women have fantasies of being tied down to a bed and ravished by a man dressed as a liberal.

Now, back to our regular thread:

I don't think Bush has anything up his sleeve. I mean, the guy has had eight years to pull something, and a bunch of occasions to do it, and never has. I don't think he'd wait until the last day he's in office.

And I thought everyone thought Bush was an idiot, a moron, a retard. Come on, either he's stupid, or he's going to take over the world. He can't be both.

Originally posted by Pericle
Honestly I think the OP is right. IF USA attacks Iran, USA will be hit by everything: revolution, civil war, terrorism, home war, etc.

So I do not think it is impossible. Looking at Bush, you can already see that he's preparing for something. Only in USA can you see police officers with rifle guns, shoot guns, automatic weapons, etc. That is no ordinary police, that is a police state.

I think Americans believe it is normal to see the police going around with MP5 Navy, FN P90, HK UMP, M4A1 Colt, etc. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

What happens if Iran attacks the US? Maybe not mainland US, but sets off a nuke at Camp Victory, Iraq, or at Balad Air Base in Iraq? If we attack then, do you think that would lead to a civil war?

And I think the US cops are armed like they are because the crooks are. They have an "iron pipeline" that moves all sorts of illegal weapons in the US. Some of them are quite nasty. I'd hope my cops are armed with something more than a .38 if they run into one of those guys.

Jerico, Bush is a puppet, pure and simple, he is not in the same league as Moa, Stalin, Lenin etc. but there are those with the ambitions of the aforementioned lurking behind the Goverment.

And remember this, the majority of people do not support corrupt regimes only the few, but those few will use any means neccessary to bring the people to heal be it charm or terror.

I dont think anyone has a problem with a well equipped police force to deal with serious crime but that is completely different to use said police force to murder, to deny rights, to deny free speech, there is a big difference between a gun totin crack head and a person standing on the street corner speaking out against his or her Goverment.

When you seek to deny the people the right to speak out against your Goverment then you are on the road to a dictatorship. History is replete with such incidents and it only takes a few to bring about dramatic change fuelled by ignorance, apathy and indifference.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
You would be right if all your fellow Americans on these boards agreed with your sentiments but they dont and that should tell you something.

Here's one that agrees with him. You need to understand that the little slice of America you're exposed to on ATS is not representative of America as a whole. In fact, it's not even close.

Blue, so there was no rigged elections, no profiteering from war, illegal wars, no PNAC, no Patriot 1 & 2, Health, Education, Welfare loosing out to the trillions spent on the Military, No Muslim bogey man, no culpability on 9/11, no Waco, No Ruby Ridge, no Oklahoma bombing, no threatening to nuke Iran and all the rest of it.

If you want to spend time talking about what the average American does each day then fine but this thread is not about that.

What this thread is about is a democratic country turning into a fascist one, one that is waging war on its own people at home and is pursuing the goal of PNAC abroad. Well its quite simple, when you publish a document stating that you will attack anyone friend or foe that threatens your interests what do you rightly think the reaction will be to such a plan.

Do you and peole such as Rockpuck think were going to sit back will the US stomps all over us or draws us into a world war not of our making. Its time to start looking at the bigger picture, I'm not interested in what good Americans may do or not I am concerned that the Goverments actions may start a nuke war and perhaps rather than telling me I dont live in the US or have not visited it maybe you should listen to the voices of many concerned people around the world as to where America is heading.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Blue, so there was no rigged elections, no profiteering from war, illegal wars, no PNAC, no Patriot 1 & 2, Health, Education, Welfare loosing out to the trillions spent on the Military, No Muslim bogey man, no culpability on 9/11, no Waco, No Ruby Ridge, no Oklahoma bombing, no threatening to nuke Iran and all the rest of it.

Since you wanna go there, let's go there. I'm an average middle class American with a college education and here's my opinions on these items.

Rigged Elections - Negative. There was cheating on both sides and that happens in every election. This was nothing more than crybabying by some sore losers.

Profiteering from War - Sure there's profit in war. However, what led us into war was 9/11 and I've yet to be convinced that it was anything other than a terrorist attack.

Illegal Wars - Negative. Nothing illegal about them.

no PNAC - not exactly sure what you're getting at here. Do you not like the PNAC or are you saying it does not exist?

Patriot 1 & 2 - The Patriot Act hasn't affected me in any way. I'm as free as I ever was, thank you.

Health - I like our healthcare system, thank you.

Education - Not overly pleased with public education, but I went to public schools and I turned out ok. Public schooling wasn't great 20 years ago, so you can't really blame that on war spending.

Welfare losing out to the Military - I'm anti-welfare. I think the great thing about America is that each person makes their own life. I've busted my butt and I'm doing OK. I don't think hand outs should be available to anyone unless they are unable to work. This is NOT the state of the current welfare system.

No muslim bogeyman - Really?? From what I see muslims are blowing stuff up all over the world. Looks like many "muslim bogeyman" to me.

no culpability on 9/11 - ???? Is culpability really the word you wanted here? I don't buy what the "government did it" crowd is selling so this doens't even make sense to me.

no Waco - There was definitely a Waco incident. Do you actually know anything about it or are you just throwing out the buzzword? Koresh had a harem of very underage girls in there. He had created his own little world where he made the laws and those of the outside world did not apply. He refused to surrender, so action was taken. A lot of people died and it shall all be laid at the feet of Mr. Koresh in the afterlife.

Ruby Ridge - Again I have to ask...are you just throwing out a buzzword? This is another case of a suspect with a warrant that decided to barricade his family in a house and shoot at cops rather than be a MAN and face up to his crime.

Oklahoma bombing - yes, it happened. What exactly it has to do with your point, I dunno. Another terrorist attack.

no threatening to nuke Iran - I'm in the camp of people that think that if Iran gets nuclear weapons they're going to use them, so this argument is bunk for me. If (and I mean if, I would like to see lots of diplomacy first) there is no other way to "bury" the Iranian nuclear program, then I'm all for bunker busters. Note that it was never said that population centers would be nuked, which I'm completely against. It seems like you're trying to tell a half truth and make people think that's the idea.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
If you want to spend time talking about what the average American does each day then fine but this thread is not about that.

I disagree. The whole point is that you're a foreigner trying to tell Americans what their day to day life is like and I'm telling you that you're way off base.

Originally posted by magicmushroomWhat this thread is about is a democratic country turning into a fascist one, one that is waging war on its own people at home and is pursuing the goal of PNAC abroad. Well its quite simple, when you publish a document stating that you will attack anyone friend or foe that threatens your interests what do you rightly think the reaction will be to such a plan.

If and when I think we're "turning into a fascist country" I'll throw my voice in with people like you. Until then, I'll believe what my life experiences here in the country you're talking about are indicating and live my life.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Do you and peole such as Rockpuck think were going to sit back will the US stomps all over us or draws us into a world war not of our making. Its time to start looking at the bigger picture, I'm not interested in what good Americans may do or not I am concerned that the Goverments actions may start a nuke war and perhaps rather than telling me I dont live in the US or have not visited it maybe you should listen to the voices of many concerned people around the world as to where America is heading.

If you're drawn into a war, I don't think it's going to be our doing. It's going to be the responsibility of pacifists like you. I hate war, but it's necessary at times. My fear is that nothing will be done and Iran will get nukes and use them. You forget that the country is run by an insane religious extremist. People of his persuasion have no issues with strapping explosives to their body and running into the middle of thousands of women and children and detonating them...and you want to give them the opportunity to have nuclear weapons??

Having said that...I really think you're just anti-American. I think the long post earlier in this thread summed your opinions up nicely. That's your right, so good luck with that.

If you think killing the innocent to protect them and shooting a mother holding a child is good police work you will really like whats coming next. But I would suggest you get your head out of your hindquarters and wake up! Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it isn't happening. Do some real research on Ruby Ridge and Waco. I don't believe David Koresh was right in what he was doing, but why couldn't he have been apprehended on one of his unarmed trips into town? And there is just no excuse for shooting children in the back and nursing mothers.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

To the O.P. sorry for the hijack, the ill informed sometimes really get my goat. People really need to wake up and see what is really going on. Of course everyone is entitled to there own opinion even if wrong. I strongly disagreed with the previous poster. But I will fight to the death his right to say what he feels. I wonder if he would do the same for me?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by Rockpuck


The US in breaking apart... Its debt is so extense that it is no possible anymore.. to fix it. Thus UN owns thy country my friend whether you like it or not. And yes it has plans for it as well. Let me give you the numbers.

National Debt as on November the 26th of 2007 - 4:00PM GTM TIME

> 9,127,083,492,343.76 !!!

US Population = 303,639,072
Then, sharing the National Debt with each of the citizens.... each citizen's share on this debt is of $30,058.99

Those are the numbers... lets not mention whos the biggest enconomy.. cuz you know as well as everyone of us that has nothing to do with it. When the US is one of the largest produces, exporters, let face it.... all that money is not being use to cover the debt... thus the contry has money to waste it in wherever they want (ie. the ridiculous bills for military equipment and weaponery) then the strongest economy.... so as obvious as it sounds, start paying every dollar you own and lets see how strong you economy ends up being.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle

Originally posted by magicmushroom

Patriot 1 & 2 - The Patriot Act hasn't affected me in any way. I'm as free as I ever was, thank you.



Really??? so why is it that your senate allows your president and his friends to read your emails? and listen to your phone conversations? hahahaha and not just terrorists but every single citizen? and now made legal by the senate mmmmm so thats freedom?

Why does a student get teasered at a public convertion when asking John Kerry if he was part of the Skull and Bones?? hahaha

Do you even know what freedom feels like? Huh? Dont run too fast cuz in the next few years, you gonna be implanted a microchip my friend. The exact same one the soldiers are now beginning to wear. No way around it. Keep being as free as you has ever been for you aint gonna be no more. The sad thing is most of the companies and organizations involved in all this are American as well. To their own ppl! sad.. greed, money, and power. The same why IBM acepted helping Hitler in murdering 6 million ppl! so the same way they perfectly demolish the WTC and give you an excuse or reason for you to become frightened and support their new plans and hidden agendas.

Blue, First off I'm no pacifist sometimes wras have to be fought but the act of war should be the last resort. Iraq 2 and afganistan are illegal wars, the wot and the WMD's are a pack of lies and the method to bring these actions about have been used by others many times before.

Welfare, if we had a fair system we would not need welfare but the system is not fair so that is why we do. We cannot all be rich it would not work, are you going to pay $40 an hour to the trashman or a road sweeper no your not.

So you think its ok for your Goverment to kill its own citizens, women and children, thats a democracy is it, that once someone is lablled a criminal proof or not its ok to kill them, torture them, detain them without due process.

PNAC is a plan designed for America's control of the globe , corporate greed backed by the military who will do whatever they are told.

But you do have one point, depending on a persons social class you may be totally unaware of the problems around you or you are aware but dont give a dam, I'm all right jack stuff you.

Read the words of your fellow Americans who do not see it your way, not just on these boards but in every walk of life.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
To the O.P. sorry for the hijack, the ill informed sometimes really get my goat. People really need to wake up and see what is really going on. Of course everyone is entitled to there own opinion even if wrong. I strongly disagreed with the previous poster. But I will fight to the death his right to say what he feels. I wonder if he would do the same for me?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Indeed I would, sir. Free speech is very important. The main difference is that while I may disagree with your opinion I don't assume you're unintelligent an/or use phrases like "get your head out of your hindquarters" to try to belittle you into keeping your opinion silent.

Reluctant, the problem is many of these people want it that way, there are always willing hands to do the dirty work, thats when you find out who they really are. Every murderous regime has its heplers and Americans has been helped by these people to kill what, at least 6 million at the last count since 1945.

Now because of PNAC they are upping the stakes, first to go will be the right to bear arms, a few more school shootings should do the trick. Political activists, groups etc. will be detained and charged under Patriot as being subversive, aiding and abbetting terrorists and virtually any other excuse/lie they can think of.

Anyone who is seen as a burden on the state will be taken care of and I dont mean in a nice way, probally forced labour etc. the usual trick is to criminalise such groups that way the sheeple, and the helpers make it easy to get them sorted.

You already have all the spy on your neighbour and on each other, denounce anyone you hear speaking out against the Goverment, such people will be re-educated, nice way to put it.

And has the US in recent times, by any other country ever been invaded no, occupide no, attacked no, bombed no. Has the there been people murdered by the Goverment yes, are people being tortured, imprisoned, murdered by the goverment yes at home and abroad.

Are there Americans who support the Goverment in its policy of murder mayhem and greed oh you bet and proud of it as well.

This has all happened before though many times and still is in places like Burma, North Korea but the nearest example is Nazi Germany.

I can recommend a good book, The Nazis a Warning From History

Originally posted by plaetorian
Really??? so why is it that your senate allows your president and his friends to read your emails? and listen to your phone conversations? hahahaha and not just terrorists but every single citizen? and now made legal by the senate mmmmm so thats freedom?

Since I'm not involved in anything illegal, I have nothing to worry about. If the "president and his friends" want to read/listen to me arranging hiking trips with my friends or discussing what's for dinner with my wife then they can go ahead. I really don't care. The people that are being monitored are monitored for a reason.

Why does a student get teasered at a public convertion when asking John Kerry if he was part of the Skull and Bones?? hahaha

Oh you mean the kid that decided he was going to disrupt an event so that he could spread his bs and get some attention. Perhaps if he had listened to the officers instead of being an idiot, he wouldn't have been tasered.

Do you even know what freedom feels like? Huh? Dont run too fast cuz in the next few years, you gonna be implanted a microchip my friend. The exact same one the soldiers are now beginning to wear. No way around it. Keep being as free as you has ever been for you aint gonna be no more.

I know very well what freedom feels like and I've heard firsthand from a former member of the soviet republic what lack of freedom is like. I'm confident that time will prove me right on this and there's really no other way to argue it. Send me a U2U 5 years from now and I'll be happy to let you know that none of your dire predictions ever happened.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Read the words of your fellow Americans who do not see it your way, not just on these boards but in every walk of life.

I have read many many posts that are the opposing viewpoint to mine and I haven't changed my mind. Sorry but when I am presented with an idea that conflicts with the reality I see in my daily life, I have to go with reality.

I think you should take your own advice and talk to some Americans that aren't ATS members. I know a lot of people and I don't know one single person that buys into the "the government did it" idea. Not one. On here, 90% of the posters buy that. You've constructed your entire view of America based on a group of posters on a conspiracy board that are skewed anti-government.

Blue, When are you going to realise that we are all seen as the enemy, this crap I hear all the time oh if you dont do anything wrong etc. then your ok, well let me give you one big reminder, how about 6 million Jews who did nothing wrong and all the other countless millions who did nothing wrong, are you getting the picture yet.

In Polpots Cambodia anyone who was educated was murdered. peacful demonstration is allowed in a democracy in a despot nation like Burma its not and you think if some one speaks out they should be tasered, I must say you have a very strange interpretation of freedom and democracy.

Your making it sound like you would support the actions of the despots in Burma, but hey maybe you do thats your choice, well all have choices dont we.

Blue my view is not just based on what I see and read on ATS, both my wife and I have family in America, I have American penals and it was only last night when we had a couple of young Americans around.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


to you first answer.. YES it is important... you may say you dont care or you have not done anything illegal! but that is not the point of the matter my friend, the point is your government is ready your private life, listening to what you say,,, proving they dont give one about your freedom, freedom of speech nor even privacy.

The student that was put down by the cops that day did in fact not do anything wrong. I saw the video. He asked John carry that simple question about skull and bones. You ca even see in the footage that as soon as the finishes the question, the cop behind him receives an order in the ear, prolly thru earpiece and they jump on him. All he does is ask why, what did he do, they kick bulling this guy to the teeth hahahaha what a free country.

Examples like that I could tell you about for years. You have no clue what being free is all about. Come to the other side of the atlantic and be my guess I show you why when you ppl come here you dont want to go back.

The sadness is you are so brainbashed to support the whole thing you dont even see it! thousands dead in iraq and afganistan and your citizens have no clue why you went ther in the first place. You ask your senators and congress to bring your troops home! those same ppl chosen by you to defend your rights in the congress.... and nothing happens. You president hahah instead of hearing what you have to say, he threatens to veto everything and sends more troops and spends more billions with "b" on the issue!!! unbelievable thats the same goverment that promisses you freedon but forgets what freedom means.

Blue really needs to get his head out of the dirt and look around.....There is a struggle for our rights and for us to keep them we need to stand up and for you to say oh! I am not doing anything wrong go ahead and stop me out on the road hell frisk my wife hey! cop a feel while your at it!!! sounds ludicrous.....Ben if you give up liberty for safty then you deserve no liberty at all......

Second if you honestly think we are in Iraq in a phony war (it is an occuation) because of 911 you are a mental case they had absolutely nothing to do with it at all period.....Most of the high jackers were Saudis...Even more odd half of them are alive aswell...

Also if you think no bid contracts and private companies making three to five times the amount our troops are making (at our expense) is ok aswell there deffinetly is no hope for you...The Hannnitys and Oreilys have you brainwashed.....


We are heading dow a nasty path in this country....I actually heard Glenn Beck saying we need to tax the poor and mid class (whats left) and let the rich keep more of their money....Thought they already did that wit off shore account????

Bottom line is enough people are going to lose what they have and do what they gotta do to survive....It is no wonder Detroit has the highest crime in the nation they lost all their good jobs because of corporate greed....Only a matter of time.....

reply to post by BlueTriangle


I am big enough to accept the criticism and be put in my place. I do apologize for those statements in the heat of my emotions. However please research those items closely.

respectfully

reluctantpawn