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Civil War USA

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posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:08 PM
Something is definitely building, everyone I speak with feels it.
While we may not have truly draconian laws as of yet, the stage has been set to implement them. Time and time again we have examples of our personal sovereignty being eroded and the powers that be abusing their station (see tazers), I would link to other ATS threads as examples but do not know how
so instead you get a list and the freedom to choose to search.

Forced vaccinations
No law reguiring income tax but forced payment with threat of jail
Constant infringement of the 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, 1st amendment.
HR1955. Homegrown terrorism bill
Patriot Act1 and Patriot Act 2 "This time it's for Revenge!"
Rapidly rising police corruption/brutality
Executive orders written by Bush
etc etc...

All it takes is a single natural disaster or another "terrorist" attack.
Hell, in my opinion Extraordinary Rendition is enough. We are being pushed and we are being pushed hard. As of yet we have not been pushed in just the right way, just the right button, to enact a large social reaction. In my opinion they will find the button very soon.
Many of us Americans have been lied to enough, been endangered enough, and been taken advantage enough by "Them" that we are even considering Revolution. Being Free is not just about having a rich Democracy and a huge GDP. It is a state of being, more of us are realizing that just because we can buy a 60" TV on credit and a Car on credit and a house on Credit does not make us free, in fact it enslaves us to a system controlled by others who readily manipulate our economy and our way of life while expecting us to drink beer and sing songs in the street while supporting our local sports team.

We have presidential candidates who argue about which one of them is going to take the MOST CONTROL of our personal healthcare decisions for chrissake. We have Government officials dictatitng what we can drink and where, what chemicals will be injected into our children, and what companies get the rigth to poison our ground and water supplies while we sheep are left in th edark or lied to about it!

I have no need for the Fedgov to tell me what doctor to use, what medicines to take or give my child, what guns I can or cannot buy, what ffo dto eat, what drugs to take, etcetc. It's not just America either. Folks are waking up all over the world, the extent that Ron Paul has gained popularity in foreign countries is proof enough.

SO... yes, the Revolution is coming. The People will try to keep it peaceful and bloodless. Hold no doubt though that when the "They" make it a fight, that we will not fight back!

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:29 PM
reply to post by magicmushroom

i see in tonights news from google ca----------canada news that there are canadian politicians that want to get rid of the canadian dollar and instead have/take up the american dollar-------i wanted to respond but they are taking no more comments------i would have sarcasticly?asked-----why stop there ------since canada's government loves nafta so much --why not make a deal with the usa and mexico to use the peso instead?(i dont know what a peso is worth) but i was going to suggest 10 cents ------yes lets all get poor over night and exchange our dollars 1 for 1 for pesos so we can all get rich ?the politicians are starting already-- to try and get us conditioned for their nwo?

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:45 PM

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Blue, thats party of the problem because the US is so big and its population is quite well spread some people arent aware or affected by these changes, there were many happy people living in Iraq under Saddam who were not affected by his actions but that did not mean things wern't going wrong. I rarely listen to the news, I talk to Americans on line and at home.

One has only got to look at ATS and the concern many Americans raise on plenty of issues about home. Going to France does not make me a Frenchman does it, I do not have any connection with the country but I could still talk alot about the country and its people.

The golden years for the US were from 45 to the early 60's after Kennedy's murder thats when it all started going wrong.

Answer this what other democracy in peactime murders its own citizens on a regular basis.

First, please do not correct U.S. citizens about the state of affairs in their own country. It is arrogant, rude, and lends your opinions to be a bit on the absurd side. Denying a primary source for a secondary is a poor tactic, especially when you -correct- it.

To help address your issues:

i. Do not compare America to Iraq. The situations are in no way similar and its silly that you'd even think to make that connection. A nation largely dominated by desert, very little communication over-all with little private media, let alone electricity to view said private media compared to a first-world nation?

ii. Are you honestly basing your opinions of America off the worlds largest conspiracy website? If I were to apply that same logic, then year after year half the first-world countries would've gone to civil war by now, Russia and the United States would make frequent use of scalar weapons, we'd have aliens in orbit above the Earth, and etc. Your logic, at this point, is wasted and your believability nil.

iii. Murder its own citizens? Ah! I suppose you mean the rare few taser incidents. Are you aware the Britain has had its share of cop-caused fatalities? As well as most every other country which utilizes a police force? [All.]

Your logic is pathetically inadequate, and you feel the need to rudely harass the Americans here about the state of affairs in their own country.

If you want to talk about revolution, go in your own thread. It's in the top-five now. At-least then you'll have an actual, educated opinion.

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:45 PM
Im gonna have to agree with the poster on this one. I believe that if we dont have some monumental changes in the next few years that we will have a revolution in the next 1-20 years. I think it needs to happen....his country is based on a piece of paper that the people running the country would rather wipe there asses with and then go make some more money.Our country is on a very slippery slope, IMHO...

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:57 PM
I don't think it's necessary to attack each other for a mere difference of opinion. There are many truths in every post on this thread. Some statements may seem far fetched, but look at them closely and you will see they are not far from being reality. I am a businessman and see and feel what most are referring to. There is definitely a "squeeze" taking place. I hate to put the analogy of the anaconda squeezing you softly until you pass out, but that is how it feels.

I guess a few years ago, or most of my life, I was just asleep or mind controlled by the mainstream media, and also religion. Although I am a libertarian, I voted for Bush twice (covering my face to avoid the rotten tomatoes). If I had known. If I had woken up. If, if, if. I know there are plenty like me who now feel that it was all a lie. All you need is connect the dots. Look at the trends. All the way from Prescott Bush to the current one.

Most people are still asleep and even if you make them open their eyes, they would rather call you a conspiracy theorist, unpatriotic, and on and on... Yes, it is not a civil war that's brewing, it is definitely a revolution. The illegal alien situation is just a cop out. All you have to do is go to your nearest supermarket and look at the prices you pay today. Without illegals, you would be paying so much more for everything you eat and wear that you could not afford it. Don't get me wrong, I support LEGAL immigration. However, I also see how difficult the government makes it for any business who needs a continued flow of labor and cannot find it. They have to be on "survival mode". Agricultural, hospitality, and many other industries need this flow so that you can continue paying today's prices. The problem is the unnecessary spending that is bankrupting this country and our representatives don't seem to be doing anything about it. No wonder their approval rating of 11% is even lower than the president. The question is, why?

It is indeed a revolution brewing slowly. I am so tired of the mainstream media and all the brainwashed sheeple calling everyone who questions the government actions and the erosion of our Constitution unpatriotic. Someone said if martial law were to be implemented, the local government wouldn't stand it. Understand our armed forces are on a federal basis and the local governments wouldn't have a leg to stand on. It is federal, state, municipal, local, and territorial. All activated at the same time. The question is, what can we do?

I would say, wake everyone you know up. Just like Ghandi said: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". I was one of the those ignoring and laughing. I am not laughing anymore and hope you are not either. The American Union is just around the corner, along with the Amero and no one is talking about it. As of right now, are we the only significant few awake, while the insignificant many are asleep? Ron Paul seems to be the only hope, but we have seen what happens to leaders that truly bring hope with them. If Ron Paul doesn't get the Republican nomination, I hope a new party, call it the American or Constitution Party, should surface so that people realize that it doesn't have to be righ or left, republicans or democrats, but plainly AMERICAN. The NWO knows this: DIVIDE AND CONQUER. And that's exactly how they're doing it.

Our days of freely expressing ourselves seem to be getting shorter and shorter. I thank you for reading this long post and I wish you peace and freedom.

"I rather keep my mind open by wonder than have it closed by belief"

[edit on 23-11-2007 by manticore]

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 05:09 PM
Iblis, dont you know your own history, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma, 9/11 and how many other events.

Yes every other democracy goes around murdering its own citizens, even despot nations dont have a PNAC plan, you know the one were they say we will attack you even if your not a threat but its in our own interests.

Instead of sniping at me why dont you spend your efforts on your Goverment. And you fail to address many of the problems within your country or its corrupt foreign policy.

You see thats the problem everthing your Goverment does effects us all be it our troops dying in the ME or the price of oil going through the roof. Its about time you started taking responsibility for your actions.

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 05:20 PM

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Iblis, dont you know your own history, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma, 9/11 and how many other events.

Yes every other democracy goes around murdering its own citizens, even despot nations dont have a PNAC plan, you know the one were they say we will attack you even if your not a threat but its in our own interests.

Instead of sniping at me why dont you spend your efforts on your Goverment. And you fail to address many of the problems within your country or its corrupt foreign policy.

You see thats the problem everthing your Goverment does effects us all be it our troops dying in the ME or the price of oil going through the roof. Its about time you started taking responsibility for your actions.

Claiming I don't know my own history?
Ignoring my points and telling me to attack my government in some way, even though the very basis of my discussion was that you're wrong?

Maybe you should learn to develop an argument against me, instead of side-stepping what I say.

After all, 'Deny Ignorance' an all.

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 05:25 PM
Iblis, you did not actually make any points, you reffered to tasering of people whilst I was refering to the mass murder of people.

And unfortunately most of your thread was about attacking me so I cannot really comment on that.

I would rather discuss the important issues to be honest and if you read my words you will see what I mean.

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 07:10 PM
I don't even know why I bother posting in absurd threads written by you Magic. I honestly don't.

Rock I know you like to see your country through rose tinted spectacles but maybe you should take them off some time.

Your childish ignorance and lapsing education in regards to the affairs of American politics and domestic feelings is insanly pathetic. If you think I look at my country through "rosey spectacles" you obviously have never read any of my writings on ATS.

Have you been to the moon no you have not have you yet you can still talk about it carn't you

Illogical, but I can play along. No I have never been to the Moon, I suppose I could talk about the way it looks from here, but I cannot say how Earth looks from there. Get my drift you angry Englishman?

and I find it rich coming from an American the majority of whom dont have passports and believe that their living in a bubble to those who do and dont live in the bubble.

I have a passport. Does that make me more informed?
I understand how you pull your logic straight from your backside, but I never once commented on anyone else, I commented on America which you claim to have a better analysis of. In other words your point doesn't even make sense.

Do you really beleive just because I have not been to America I dont know anything about it, so on that logic you cannot talk about anywhere you have not been then I take it.

You don't know what it like to live here. That is different. It should be noted to anyone following along with what this fool is saying, click on his name and review his threads.

I will do it for you, for mr. Mushroom is a sadistic anti-American with a devout devotion to morbid fantacies regarding its demise.

From: Delluded Americans

What is wrong with some Americans, are they so controlled by the mind trap, do they really belive they are on sonme viictorious crusade to save the World from tyranny.

I will say from the many, many spelling errors that this is a thread written with speed and angry. I must ask Mushroom, why so hateful? Where you wronged by an American?

But where are all the smart Americans, where are all those who do know whats going on, where in the Worlds alleged largest democracy is the hue and cry to these recent events, there is none.

Indeed the Englishman is smarter then those Americans.. we live in a Bubble while the Englishman knows all about us. Except, Englishman, the worlds largest Democracy is India. A two year old would know that chief.

A nation led by the greatest fool that ever walked this Planet is leading in into a black hole, yet this great democracy and its people are silent, why, whats wrong with you all is it that the junk food and drugs have finally taken effect.

So we see you don't like our president. Me either.. but what outcry do you want? Did you know only 20% of the population considers them selves either strict Democratic or Republican? The rest go along with policies and so forth, and ironic as it sounds, hoodwinked or not the majority agreed and voted in the "worlds greatest fool". However I can still feed my family, go to work, buy all the useless Chinese crap I want to so what do I have to complain about? Bad laws being passed? You say we are Draconian? We still have more liberties then you, Englishman, who cannot even own a gun.

Lets move along... To this thread. Will American Change Their Ways?

Note, these are small excerpts from disturbing rants, and I am not even going to link to all of these threads, read them your self and see the disturbing pattern.

With Americans creating 25% of the the Worlds pollution are they ready to ditch their overfed throwaway gass gusling society. Is it the Bubble Syndrome, that they are blissfully unaware of what is happening in the World, do they really believe that they can continue down this path of self destruction, are they even aware of it or do they not care at all.

More "bubble" talk, seeing apparently American's are ignorant fools who never know anything at all about the world. Guess he has been here to find out, when will you walk out of your bubble Englishman and come to America?

America and Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee they need to down size everything from thier waste to their houses and their military.

Being big is not cool anymore, living in a bubble translates to were isolationists who do not know whats going on, its time to get smart because the alternative would be to awfull to contemplate, people who have enjoyed an endless bounty need to stop and think where it all comes from and the price that is paid. So wake up America and get with the picture.

Sad rant, no replies, go figure.

It appears after a bad day Mushroom comes on and rants about dead Americans, so gloomy....

This one The End of America Is pleasantly titled.

The despots who run America those who should and must be tried for crimes against humanity are now lining up to nuke Iran. This will be the final chapter on the book of the USA

many deaths on the field of battle but would plunge the country into its own destruction.

This will be a conflict where major players such as Russia and China will face off the US, where investors will cut the purse strings, where it will be the US is attacked and faces sanctions from every country on the planet.
The US is to be sanctioned by everynation on earth! Oh my.

To those who run America even its own citizens are seen as terrorists and a threat. Draconian measures have now been introduced that can turn the country into a police state at the whim of the greatest fool who ever walked this Earth. Patriots so blinded by the lies and smoke screens wont believe it till they are in one of the many camps being built, but then it will be too late wont it.

Such a bleak picture. While surely Mushroom that because we do not follow your personal political ideologies we are doomed to damnation huh?
Almost sounds.. dare I say, Draconian?

But this thread...

This thread he was really mad.. and he accidentally showed his true colors. Beware, its a sad spectacle to see.

American Patriots

What are they! are they all lobotomised at birth? are they some kind of pre programmed android, their certainly not human, no intelligent human with their own brain could but that stupid, ignorant, narrow minded, uncaring, selfish, murderous, depraved, racist, bigots and bubble minded inhabitants could they.

Read that, word for word.

None Human.
Narrow minded
Bubble Minded Inhabitants.

That sums up my Englishman's view of American citizens.
Cheer to you mate, you can prove again your an ignorant child who has a hate for a people yet no clause.

Your sad. That is all I can say.

But I think I will leave people with this:

What Mr Englishman really thinks of Americans is....

a group of prozac zombies who kill and eat their own babies.

So there you have it. The Englishman's supposed none anti-american attitude is infact ----

Simply a pathetic excuse for a rational human being.

Cheers to you shroom. Always a good chat. See ya next time you make another rant.

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 07:28 PM
Ya know... I had a strokish kind of thing here a few months back, and that led to me being out of work, and that led to me being able to read more and more on the web... aka ATS.

Having been born in 1948 (You do the math... If it's not too hard)... , And having been a child of the 60s, and having been a proud participant, in good standing, in the Viet Nam War Games (2nd place team)... I just want to say.


If you don't like what's happening in this country, do what a lot of us did in the 60s and 70s... Get up from behind your safe and beloved keyboards, get out in the streets... Don't be afraid to stand up for what you want to say. The people in power don't read Above Top Secret. They don't need to... You all are going to Yak each other to death in the coffee house.

Get out! Protest! Make your voice heard! Take a little Tear Gas! Stand up for what you believe in. We did in the 60s and the 70s, and most of us, except for the 50,000+, who got a hallowed spot for their names on the Viet Nam War Memorial, are still up and at it.

But a hint to those who have ears, and can think and perform in areas other than on their keyboards...

The situations and people you are facing and hating now, are a direct result of our actions in the 60s and the 70s.

I doubt you will, but I dare you to do someting other than sit here in your house, apartment, whatever, and type vitriole at each other, anonymously across the wonderful world wide web...

Otherwise, us old guys and gals who have done our share of protesting are sitting here in our gray hair, hoary wisdom, and warm living quarters thinking that you all, for the most part, are a bunch of chicken littles, worrying that the sky is falling, but with no idea of what to do other than worry that the sky is falling.

As a bit of afterthought, what do you give a crap about what the Brits or the Russians, or the Arabs, or the Indians, Canadians, Mexicans, or whomsoever may think? It's not their country! It's your country! If you don't like what you see get the Hell up and get involved in changing it. If all you are going to do is sit on your butt and whine... Don't be too surprised or complain too loudly when the changes that occur don't suit you!

Bahhhh.... Grow up and get it done or sit down and shut up!

[edit on 23-11-2007 by sigung86]

posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 09:54 PM
Do like in europe and other countries, get all the citizen to blockade all the roads for a day to show of protest, put the country at a stop until they change or get out. it's your country and your government, the government works for the people not the other way arround.

send out mass emails news letters ask that they be forworded to all they know, or tell people, that on such and such date at such time "say Dec 17th, 19th, 20th ect. park cars in the roads from 8 am to 5 pm.
putting the country at a stop like this makes them move fast.

i really dont see the need for a civil war but one could end up breaking out if they still dont comply or other citizen just get tired and want to get back to there 9-5 and there 56".

some videos i thought fit this topic.
Dumbing Down America by Charlotte Iserbyt
John Tylor Gatto
Federal Reserve

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 03:54 AM
Rock, thank you for your kind words, so good of you to display them here and my works.

Again the truth hurts so much that you can only resort to ridicule and abuse well its ok I can can take it, its good to know i'm getting under your skin.

For a start I never claimed to know everything about America or Americans, but I do not need to live there or visit there to see the way your nation is going anymore than you need to live here to see how the UK is going. You have a problem with English people do you as you seem to keep mentioning it.

Your nation is becoming the most hated on Earth now any sane logical person who cared would ask why, but obviously you sign up to your nations deeds hence your alleged outraged attitude.

You would be right if all your fellow Americans on these boards agreed with your sentiments but they dont and that should tell you something.

I have openly said that I do not agree with America's foreign policy, PNAC and the attitude of so many Americans to the rest of the world and its peoples. Well tough mate, you better get used to it, you keep sticking the boot in and your going to get kicked back, as I said the truth hurts and you cannot take it.

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 05:35 AM
reply to post by magicmushroom

To the good people of the United States of America, please do not allow yourselves to be tricked into another Civil War. Wars are planned well in advance by politicians and industrialists, every so often, politicians sense unrest and decide to reduce the population, they have a saying 'you can always get one half of the poor to fight the other half' [Gangs of New York]
and of course all that's important to them is the 'semblance of law and order'. There is always someone policing the poor but there is seldom ever anyone policing the wealthy or those in office.
What is needed in many countries, is bloodless revolution. As a slogan I would suggest,'Make Democracy Work' and make it work for all, not just one group of people. Those who currently hold office in most countries represent only the very wealthy, and are by definition therefore, a minority. So many counties claim to be Democratic, but I am not aware of even one that genuinely serves the wishes, hopes and dreams of it's People.

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 06:10 AM

Originally posted by magicmushroom

I've been reading this topic with a smile on my face.

Magicmushroom, it's cool that you have your opinions and observations, but how about coming over to the US and actually living here and dealing with the citizens. Sure, a lot of people are POd about one thing or another with the government, and I think everyones feels we need a change, but I don't think that a civil war is around the corner.

Our police are paramilitary? Maybe they were forced into that role when we bodybagged 3000+ of our citizens in one day. Still, I don't worry about the cops jacking me up as I drive/walk down my streets. In fact, 99% say hi.

Unfortunately, one of the responsibilities of being a superpower is for us to get involved with the world. What would your response would be if there was some disaster in the world, and the US didn't respond? There was an earthquake in Iran several years ago and we gave aid to them!!

There's good and bad in every country. Seems like a lot of people like to stand on the side lines and point out all that's wrong and "evil" with the US, yet turn a blind eye to things other countries do. China and their forced labor? North Korea and their suppressing of their citizens? Iran? Sudan? Mexico?

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 06:50 AM
reply to post by magicmushroom

my point is that with the assassinations of a US president, MLK jr., charlie mansons attempt at inciting a race war, the watts riots, the shootings at kent state university, the vietnam war, those times were much more volitile than these times, and if a cicil war didn't break out then, it won't know.

the big difference is the internet

if you read ATS, prison planet, rense, etc, the US is a nazi police state run by reptiles from mars

I can say that is untrue

I think you are trying to make the case for a revolution or a coup or a race war, a civil war is out of the question


posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 07:58 AM
reply to post by sigung86


Even after being challenged to get off your collective butts and do something other than whine on the internet, I see that it makes no impact, and apparently no one cares about anything other than sitting behind their keyboards and whining...

Fiery patriots! Ummmmm.... Not.... Something to be worried about by the government? Nooooo..... It would appear that as long as you have the internet, and the ability to bate the Brits... They (the government) have nothing to worry about.

And that's fine with them...

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 08:48 AM
Jericho, I dont and do not dispute the good America and its citizens have done, and yes your quite right in stating that there are many things wrong in many countries.

What I believe is that America has been hijacked by whomever and you or others may wish to venture on whom that may be and they are using America and its status/armed forces for the ambition of Pax America and many people myself included are concerned where this is all lead to.

The BE is part of my countries history and I am not proud of it because it was paid for in blood, murder, looting and pillaging on a global scale. America now appears to be doing the same thing but also there is much unrest at home (America) and many people are righlty concerned of where their country is heading.

Dont forget history has shown us that it only takes a few people to bring about radical change for the worst and for people to say it would not happen in America is simply not true because its happened before in many countries and still is happening.

Unfortunately there are those hell bent on war, power and greed and it would appear that the warmongers have control of the Goverment at the moment.

The Americans I have spoken to are just like the rest of us, they dont want their country embroiled in foreign wars with trillions spent on defense at the expense of the well being of the populace. Many people on these boards voice their concerns over a variety of issues concerning the US, dose that make them unpatriotic, ignorant, or stupid no it does not, they are individuals who are concerned about the future of their country and its people, a perfectly natural state of mind.

But there are those even on these boards who wish to stiffle the views of others, to shout them down, to ridicule them etc. it is people such as those who aid and abett those who would turn us into slaves.

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 10:59 AM
Honestly I think the OP is right. IF USA attacks Iran, USA will be hit by everything: revolution, civil war, terrorism, home war, etc.

So I do not think it is impossible. Looking at Bush, you can already see that he's preparing for something. Only in USA can you see police officers with rifle guns, shoot guns, automatic weapons, etc. That is no ordinary police, that is a police state.

I think Americans believe it is normal to see the police going around with MP5 Navy, FN P90, HK UMP, M4A1 Colt, etc. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 11:28 AM
A civil war is citizens against citizens.
you dont need a civil war and one will only cause the Nazi Administration... i mean the Bush Administration to induce a police state or rush to a NWO.
what america need is a peaceful revolution to let the world know that americans do not trust there government anymore and you's want change for the good of america and not for the bad.

Like i posted earlier put America at a stand still, shut down the state for a day or two, you are in need of a major revolution to get rid of theses "evil do gooders" as buch even said...

Also i was just wondering why he is still in power... he wasnt voted in and yet he is pres? and when it was time to vote him out he declare a stat of emergency so that he can stay in office even longer and create even more damage?

Wake up america before you lose your country to a facist government.

posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 12:11 PM
Here is what some of your fellow Americans have said.

"If American democray ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peacful means to better the lot of our citizens, Fascism will grow in strenght in our land"
Franklin D Roosevelt

"The next step in a fasict Goverment is the combination under an energetic leader of a number of men who possess more than the average share of leisure, brutality and stupidity. The next step is to fascinate fools and muzzle the inteligent, by emotional excitement on the one hand and terrorism on the other"
Bertrand Russell

Without exhaustive debate, even heated debate, of ideas and programs free goverment would weaken and wither.
But if we allow ourselves to be persuaded that every individual or party that takes issue with our convictions is necessarily wicked or treasonous then indeed, we are approaching the end of freedoms road"
Dwight D Eisenhower

"The most socio-political shift in out time has gone almost completely unremarked and even unnoticed. It is the dramatic shift of the red-state bourgeoisie from leave us alone libertarianism, manifested in the congressional elections of 1994, to almost Totaltarian Statist Nationalism whereas the Conservative middle class once cheered the circumscribing of the Federal Goverment, it now celebrates and adores the central state particularly its military wing... My own take is this: Republican take-over of the presidency combined with an unrelenting state of war, has supplied all the levers necessary to convert a burgeoning libertasrian movement into a statist one"
Lew Rockwell

"Todays conservatives are Fascists: Torture, Dictatorship, phoney elections and endless war-its Fascism with a Democratic face"
Justin Raimondo

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