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Eliphas Levi

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posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 02:58 AM
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There is so much secrecy involved in freemasonry and I'm hoping that someone could shed light on their "magical" practices.

I would like to know what do Masons really worship? Do they really worship a goat idol, the Eliphas Levi Baphomet? Where did the Baphomet originated?





Why does Arthur Edward, a 33 degree freemason conjure a spirit just like withcraft? Why all these occultic practices and obsessions with Lucifer? Why so much occultic symbols present?




posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by amitheone
There is so much secrecy involved in freemasonry and I'm hoping that someone could shed light on their "magical" practices.

Masons don't do magic. Every civilized endeavor in this life requires a foundation of morality, justice and integrity. Masonry, in my opinion, promotes just such a foundation. What you do with that foundation is up to you. There are plenty of Masons and non-Masons who pursue the ancient mysteries but within Masonry there is no direction given beyond these basic necessities of a civilized man.



I would like to know what do Masons really worship? Do they really worship a goat idol, the Eliphas Levi Baphomet? Where did the Baphomet originated?

Masonry does not determine which deity you must worship, only that you believe in a Creator.
Baphomet is not a Masonic icon, if you see it associated with Masonry, you are not looking at regular Freemasonry. Those who study the mysteries will tell you that Baphomet is not a god or being but rather a concept or teaching written in symbols. Rather than give you my opinion of what it means I would encourage you to research it yourself so you won't need to trust what others say. Here is a hint though, it has to do with humanity on Earth being divided into male and female.




Why does Arthur Edward, a 33 degree freemason conjure a spirit just like withcraft? Why all these occultic practices and obsessions with Lucifer? Why so much occultic symbols present?

Never heard of him but I Googled this about Arther Edward Waite:

This is a book about black magic. It is not a book about Freemasonry. There is no record that Bro. Waite held any elective or appointive office. He was not a member of the Scottish Rite and did not receive the 33rd Degree. This book was published by George Redway in 1898, several years before Waite’s initiation in 1902.

Source

As for Lucifer, here again, Lucifer is not a being or entity in my opinion. A mistranslation in the KJ Bible wrongly associated Lucifer with Satan. Lucifer was a name for Venus. Much like Zeus was a name for Jupiter. But no matter what Lucifer is, Freemasons don't worship it.

Nice avatar you have BTW.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 07:40 AM
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Is it me, or am I seeing my double?



Masonry does not determine which deity you must worship, only that you believe in a Creator.


"The Bible is an indispensable part of furniture of a Christian lodge, only because it is the sacred book of the Christian religion. The Hebrew Pentateuch in a Hebrew lodge, the Koran in a Mohammedan one, belong to the altar. And on of these and the square and the compass properly understood are the great lights by which a Mason must walk and work. The obligation of the candidate is always to be taken on the sacred book or books of his religion, that he may deem it more solemn and binding, and therefore it was that you were asked of what relgion you were. We have no concern with your religious creed." - Albert Pike 33 degree Mason and leader of the Ku Klux Klan.


According to Albert, you're absolutely right. He sure is one reliable source indeed. Your words and his words are flawless - two gentlemen agreeing on truth.

---





Lucifer is god. "I will be like the most high - somewhere in the Bible".

Perhaps, you're right. Freemasons do not worship it. Only the Adepts and Sages or the elect conceals this secret. The secret of the worship of Lucifer. By practice, it's lower rank members only imagines that they do not worship a god. Innocently or knowingly or just clueless. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It is a secret. It is meant to fuel controversy to conceal this secret evenmore.

Whenever a member attempts to explain and defend, I believe them. After all, its all in good faith. I believe them, the elect, that is.


Baphomet is not a Masonic icon, if you see it associated with Masonry, you are not looking at regular Freemasonry.


I believe the elect. They are more reliable actually.


Those who study the mysteries will tell you that Baphomet is not a god or being but rather a concept or teaching written in symbols.


I believe the adepts. The apron says so, take a look:

i14.tinypic.com...

Regarding the link you have provided:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

I believe the sages, the only reliable source.


Rather than give you my opinion of what it means I would encourage you to research it yourself so you won't need to trust what others say. Here is a hint though, it has to do with humanity on Earth being divided into male and female.


Yes, the issue of trust indeed. I trust the elect. I took your hint and I have developed an anatomy of the baphomet.

Take a look:

Occultic Hexagram symbol in Freemasonry.

i10.tinypic.com...

A sage view of the anatomy of the Eliphas Levi's baphomet.

i1.tinypic.com...

I believe Eliphas Levi. He is a master mason. Don't get me wrong, the lower members in all good faith are telling the truth.

According to their imaginations.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 08:28 AM
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Luciferians can be refered to some esoteric egyptian school simply worshipping the Sun.

The various myth around te emerald fallen from Satan's forehaed then used by Joseph of Arimathie to get Christ's blood speaks in fact of some egyptian tradition as intertwined with the original christian story, and the frontstone is the green ray that can be seen in desert lands like some green flash appearing on the upper part of the setting sun. Taken as its spiritual part, like its wisdom sent to Earth for its worshippers.

Lucifer is the bearer of light, so the Sun. Sometime it's associated with Venus, as The Morning Star appears like announcing, so bringing, the sun as the light itself. This gave, besides others facts, the foundation of numerous "Lady of Heavens" traditions - from Ishtar to... the Statue of Liberty
.

The theosopho-masonism developped by Annie Besant and Alice Bailey is sometimes given as ruling the United Nations. To be verified.

Masons are all in all worshipping... themself.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Amitheone

Much of what you are inquiring about has already been covered numerous times on ATS. You might consider a search through the archives - I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

As to the content of your post, many of the questions you ask will not make any sense to a freemason, as they are based on misinformation. In other words, you are asking the wrong questions to the wrong people.

As redpill said, there is no magic in freemasonry, or at least not in the sense that you mean. As far as 'elders' or 'sages' are concerned you will have to explain what you mean by those terms. Depending on how you define them - there may or may not be 'sages' on this board.


Originally posted by amitheone
There is so much secrecy involved in freemasonry and I'm hoping that someone could shed light on their "magical" practices.

There is no secrecy in freemasonry and thus I am free to discuss all aspects of the Craft with you (other than the modes of recognition). But first we must identify some common ground. So I must ask you, based on your studies to date - "what is Freemasonry?". Lets button down the basics before we talk at cross-purposes for 10 pages.


I would like to know what do Masons really worship?

Again, this question has been answered for you by Redpill, and a search will reveal that this question has been answered many times over by many different people. As freemasons we worship nobody, but as people we all follow our own faith, indeed we MUST as a requirement of membership. Can you understand the difference between individual freemasons, freemasons as a group, and Freemasonry itself? They are 3 different entities.

Personally I worship the Lord Jesus Christ. With all my heart and all my soul and all my being. His message is one that is endorsed by Freemasonry - for a synopsis of the Craft read 1 Corinthians 13. The 'teachings' of Freemasonry are drawn from the teachings of the Holy Bible, the essence of which is common across a number of religions.


Do they really worship a goat idol, the Eliphas Levi Baphomet?

No.


Where did the Baphomet originated?

You tell me. You seem to know much more about it than I do.

I have one further question for you. Why do you think non-masons such as yourself and the author of the website you have visited have so much apparent deep knowledge of freemasonry, whereas the experienced freemasons have none? Putting 2 and 2 together to make 22 without any context is such a waste of time.

[edit on 11/22/07 by Trinityman]



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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You really, REALLY should be reading some of Tex Marrs books, specifically Codex Magicka. It shows how Masonic rituals and symbols all come from the ancient Jewish Kabballah.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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Conceal rather than reveal...

Amusing that you would convey and support your position using screen shots instead of direct links to the material... I know where you lifted this material, but would you care to share with the rest of the class? Just for context purposes.


Hate for anyone to get caught up in that whole "secretive" way of thinking...



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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It is funny how the masons deny the evidence presented here including the mason super mod...

Who are using secrecy here?

I don’t know where the pictures are from, but that apron looks authentic, the snakes around the phallus, the inverted star, square and compass are all Masonic symbols.

I am not saying there is actually a goat in that star, I can’t tell the image is of to poor quality, but it doesn’t matter, the inverted star is a symbol of the goat, or a symbol of feelings before rational thought.

No one are saying anything about devil worship here, but when you ignore fair questions, and attack the writer instead of the question, you put your self in a guilty looking position.

Lastly when I say Masonic symbol, I am talking about symbols that are being used in masonry.

Monkey talk not just for masons any more?



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Tetragrammaton
 


Spinmeister spin... And other acts that were not good enough to make it on American Idol... I made no denunciation of the material, merely commented on the rather "unusual" method of presentation... Why would someone do that? And why would you be so quick to vociferously condemn my observation of the anomaly if the information was "rock solid" and "on the Square?" Is the source less than credible?


Perhaps you could give some credible documentation that a phallus entwined with snakes is a "Masonic symbol."

Thanks, and in the future, I'll speak for myself.



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by Mirthful Me
 

Well Mirth, you are absolutely right, clouding your source is no more credible, than you talking in a mason thread as a super mod!
But as you say you speak for yourself here, and I respect that, it is hard to tell apart sometimes, and I have no objections what so ever, not that it mattered I know you come where you like.

Why would someone cloud their source?
Good question, well there could be a numerous reasons, I think the OP did so either because it is as you state, or because the data is manipulated, or because the OP know that if the mason knew where he got the image from they would start to attack the source instead of the data, as they have always done.

And please Mirth, I know that you are a very clever man, so don’t hollow out my words, I clearly expressed what I meant when I said a Masonic symbol, but ill explain it again. Masonic symbolism is symbolism used in masonry.

To say that the picture is not filled with symbolism used in masonry is just pure spin from your side; it is drawn by a mason for masons.

I recognize the symbolism, I was taught the same symbolism it is not unique to masonry.

It is good data in my humble opinion, but I don’t care where it is from, because I recognize the authentic value of the data.

But to amuse you this one time, though I know why you do it Mirth, just because you are smart it won’t mean that others can’t outsmart you, so I won’t play anymore after this.



I know you recognize this!



And this perhaps?



Perhaps you the know this?



And up close perhaps?



And lastly TADA!!




CADUCEUS (the Lat. adaptation of the Doric Gr. καρύκειον, Attic κηρύκειον, a herald's wand), the staff used by the messengers of the gods, and especially by Hermes as conductor of the souls of the dead to the world below. The caduceus of Hermes, which was given him by Apollo in exchange for the lyre, was a magic wand which exercised influence over the living and the dead, bestowed wealth and prosperity and turned everything it touched into gold. In its oldest form it was a rod ending in two prongs twined into a knot (probably an olive branch with two shoots, adorned with ribbons or garlands), for which, later, two serpents, with heads meeting at the top, were substituted. The mythologists explained this by the story of Hermes finding two serpents thus knotted together while fighting; he separated them with his wand, which, crowned by the serpents, became the symbol of the settlement of quarrels (Thucydides i. 53; Macrobius, Sat. i. 19; Hyginus, Poet. Astron. ii. 7). A pair of wings was sometimes attached to the top of the staff, in token of the speed of Hermes as a messenger...


It is the staff of sages and heralds; it is associated with the Greek god Hermes.
It has Mesopotamian origin; masons are obsessed with symbolism and for a good reason to, there are many secrets to be learned from reading symbols, many layers of truth. It is even mentioned by good ol Albert and Eli.

Other masons seem to know that it is indeed used in masonry [LINK]




posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by amitheone
Where did the Baphomet originated?


obviously i can't speak for the masons, don't have a clue about them, but i have some idea where eliphas levi claimed the baphomet originated, i've dug out my copy of transindental magic by levi and this is what i can offer.

he seems to have attributed it to the gnostics and the templars freely, and it is also refered to as the goat of the sabbath or the sabbatical goat, and is associated with the pentagram pointed down. this he then associates with masonry and the grand architect.

the origin however is clearly noted in the opening lines of chapter XV of the ritual end of the book. i don't have a link as i'm transcribing directly but this is what it says.
''we recur once more to that terrible number fifthteen symbolised in the tarot by a monster throned upon an alter, mitred and horned, having a womans breasts and the generatve organs of a man [he lists it's many sybological meanings]-and worse of all these-the baphomet of the templars''

however on the next page of my copy of the book he also says it is ''the god of the primitave gnostic schools; the christ also of the dissident priesthood''.

levi seems to have taken the image of the devil from a tarot pack he had and attributed it to everyone and anyone he could think of.

i should also point out that levi is often unreliable and that his referances sometimes turn out not to exhist. he seems to bridge gaps with fiction to an extent. for instance, he often refers to the baphomet as kabalistic, but there is no trace of it in kabalisim according to the notes in the book, it's worth bearing in mind.

EDIT: i've found a link to chapter XV that i quoted above if your interested. the rest of the book is also there as well as the notes i refered to.

[edit on 23-11-2007 by pieman]

[edit on 23-11-2007 by pieman]



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by amitheone
 



Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

He utters 5 "I wills", all in his heart.

Always glad to offer the words of God



[edit on 23-11-2007 by Isaiah 24:21]



posted on Nov, 26 2007 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by amitheone
There is so much secrecy involved in freemasonry and I'm hoping that someone could shed light on their "magical" practices.


Actually, there isn't much secrecy involved at all. The thousands of books on Masonry written by Masons attests to this.


I would like to know what do Masons really worship?


Masons worship according to the dictates of their consciences and to their individual religious faiths.


Do they really worship a goat idol, the Eliphas Levi Baphomet?


No. Levi's Baphomet is a (non-Masonic) symbol.


Where did the Baphomet originated?


The Templars were accused of worshiping an idol named Baphomet. The modern Baphomet, a form of the Greek god Pan, originated with Levi, who created the image to symbolize certain esoteric doctrines.



Why does Arthur Edward, a 33 degree freemason conjure a spirit just like withcraft?


1. I believe you're referring to Arthur Edward Waite, not "Arthur Edward".

2. Waite was not a 33° Mason.

3. Waite wasn't even a Mason at all when he published that book.

4. Waite was a journalist at that time, and was hired by a publishing company to research medieval black magic, and write a book about it.

5. The words you quoted from Waite's book were not invented by Waite, but Waite included them in his book as an example of what one finds in the medieval grimoires.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by amitheone
"The obligation of the candidate is always to be taken on the sacred book or books of his religion, that he may deem it more solemn and binding, and therefore it was that you were asked of what religion you were. We have no concern with your religious creed." - Albert Pike 33 degree Mason and leader of the Ku Klux Klan.


Wow.

#1 - I had NO IDEA that Albert Pike was connected with the KKK.
#2 - I find that statement to be flawless, too.

In regard to #1, I have never heard that, at all - and I have a friend who avidly reads Albert Pike but he is out of town right now. Do you have any reference or source to which you can point me?


Lucifer is god. "I will be like the most high - somewhere in the Bible".


An idea which is traditionally held to be the ultimate unforgivable sin and a one-size-fits-all diversionary tactic to avoid all possible personal accountability for choices and actions:
Blame it on 'satan.' Send the devil to hell so there is a reason to gloat in 'heaven.'

Yet 'Lucifer' was only doing exactly what Jesus said to do:


Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:48


How can wanting to be like GOD be the ultimate sin when JESUS said it is the ultimate aim of our efforts toward personal reformation?!!??!?


I believe Eliphas Levi. He is a master mason.


And a priest in the Nazarite priesthood...who we also know by the name of John the Baptist, Elijah, Edward Alexander Crowley, and Aaron, the brother of Moses...just to name a few. I suspect he was Hiram of Tyre, too, but I'm not completely sure on that one.




posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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The works of Eliphas Levi are certainly worth studying.


But I would recommend to study first, some of the works of Samael Aun Weor and Manly P. Hall.




(Emphasis mine):




Levi, Eliphas:

"The teachings of Eliphas Levi are mixed with something impure. Rudolf Steiner asseverates that Eliphas Levi was twice reincarnated as a priest in a Mexican tribe. This tribe, after having culminated in splendours of wisdom and glory, finally came to enter into decay and witchcraft. So, this soul who later in time was born with the name of Eliphas Levi, nourished himself in that Mexican epoch with that impure knowledge. Thus, this is the only way for us to have a logical explanation of the great errors in which the Abbe Alphonse Louis Constant (Eliphas Levi) falls into.

We clarify: We do not want to say that Eliphas Levi is a Black Magician, he is not, he is a Master, but what we affirm is that his books, in spite of having that seal of grandiosity, are mingled with a lot of impure knowledge. This is all." - The Aquarian Message - Samael Aun Weor





As for Golden Dawn material...

...I would stick with the works of Wynn Westcott, S.L. MacGregor Mathers, and Dion Fortune.

It seems that most other Golden Dawn writings contain too many mistakes and/or unnecessary blinds.





[edit on 11-12-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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I can assure you that freemasonry has nothing to do with magic or lucifer-worship. Its much more mundane than that.

But considering how evil and destructive the influence of christianity has been throughout history, Lucifer would be the good guy anyway, right?



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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Godfrey Higgins:

"…I consider this eight-pointed red cross as decisive evidence, that Buddhism, Manichæism, and Templism, were identical : that is, Manichæism as far as Manichæism consisted of Gnosticism, for the principle of both were the same, though in later times, in some instances, they diverged as from a common centre, as they became corrupted..."




The moving spirit behind the Rosicrucians, Templars, Masons, and the Illuminati(not the "David Icke" version of course) is indeed "Luciferian".

This is because the teaching is that Lucifer is the Primordial Base(to utilize Dzogchen terminology) of Light from which all Life springs forth, whether "good" or "bad".

Then according to this teaching, Lucifer is Light itself; so everything is "Lucifer".

Christus-Lucifer is The Ain-Soph-Aur of Phoenician and Hebrew Kabbalah, the Clear-Light of Buddhism related to Rigpa, or RA of Ancient Kemet.


Samael Aun Weor said it best when he wrote that God(Christ) and the ego(Satan) are like water and oil: They can never mix. However: Lucifer is the Primordial Light and Fire, without which neither could exist.


The Light and Fire of Lucifer inverted, would be "Satan".


In the words of a Rinpoche from the Dzogchen(Mahasandhi: the Highest vehicle of Buddhism) tradition(there are "better" authors on Dzogchen IMO; but the following is still good, and serves to illustrate the basic "idea"):







The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche



According to Dzogchen, the five poisons are nothing but the manifestation of the luminosity of rigpa. They are called ö nga, the five luminous lights. The five luminous lights of rigpa are white, yellow, red, green, and, like the color of Kuntuzangpo, deep blue.

Each of the five lights has meaning. The luminous white light of wisdom is the manifestation of rigpa's immaculate nature. That completely pure nature, that completely pacified nature, manifests as the white luminous light.

The yellow luminous light is the manifestation of rigpa's fully completed qualities. This means that rigpa is fully enriched with all the qualities of Buddha. Rigpa is fully equipped, so to speak, with all the enlightened wisdoms necessary to overcome our emotions and ego-clinging. That completeness of qualities manifests as yellow light, which is richness.

The red luminous light is the manifestation of the quality of rigpa that encompasses and magnetizes. Like a magnet, it draws all things in that direction. In a similar way, that very nature of our mind called rigpa encompasses all qualities, encompasses all wisdom. This means that everything is included within rigpa, nothing is left outside. That's why we have this magnetizing red light, which encompasses all the qualities.

The difference between the yellow and the red light is that the yellow light of enriching has the quality of possessing all the many different elements of buddha wisdom, while the red light of magnetizing encompasses all these qualities that actually boil down to rigpa. It's rigpa that has all these qualities. So everything boils down to one and only one essence. The single essence, which that contains all, is rigpa. It is the primordial mind, the primordial wisdom.

The luminous green light means that rigpa manifests all the activities of buddha. Rigpa has the compassion, love, and wisdom that buddhas manifest as physical activity, verbal activity, and samadhi, meditative absorption. All of these activities of buddha are complete within rigpa. Symbolizing that is the luminous green appearance of light, which is the fourth light taught in Dzogchen.

The fifth light is the deep luminous blue light that symbolizes the unchanging nature of rigpa. No matter what confusions we may experience at this point, the true state of rigpa is beyond all confusion. No confusion, ego-clinging, or mind poison can ever touch the true state of rigpa. They can never cause it to change. The absolute state of our mind is in the unchanging nature of rigpa, the unchanging nature of the buddha wisdom. Therefore, we have this luminous blue light.




The five elements manifest from these five lights. The water element manifests from white light. The earth element manifests from yellow light. The fire element manifests from red light. The wind element manifests from green light, and the space element manifests from blue light. These are the five elements.

From these five lights, the five objects of the five poisons also manifest. When we fail to recognize the five-colored luminosity of rigpa manifesting, we misperceive it. We misperceive the luminous white light of rigpa as ignorance. We misperceive the luminous yellow light as pride. We misperceive the luminous red light as passion, desire, and attachment. We misperceive the luminous green light as jealousy, and we misperceive the luminous blue light as aggression. We misperceive these five luminous lights as the five poisons.

According to Dzogchen teachings, the five luminous lights can be the objects of the five poisons as well as the five poisons themselves. If you take them as the objects of the five poisons, then they correspond with the emotions as we have said. As the subjects of the five poisons, they are the five buddha families. Within the five buddha families, ignorance is the Vairochana; aggression is Akshobya; pride is Ratnasambhava; passion is Amitabha; and jealousy is Amoghasiddhi.

Since they do exist in that nature, the Prayer says that samsara begins as a result of the failure to recognize the true nature of the five poisons and their objects. Whenever these appearances of lights arise, these appearances of the five poisons, we can recognize them in their true nature as the five buddha families. We can recognize them in the nature of the five buddha wisdoms. If we recognize them, it becomes liberation. Therefore, Samantabhadra makes this aspiration, saying,

Therefore, since the ground of the confusion of beings
Is mindless ignorance,
Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
May all recognize awareness.


We have these five emotions within the five wisdoms. This is taught in Vajrayana Buddhism in general and Dzogchen in particular. Whenever we have ignorance, it is in the nature of dharmadhatu wisdom. When we have aggression or irritation, that exists in the nature of mirror-like wisdom. When we have pride, that nature of mind exists in the wisdom of equanimity. When we have passion, desire, or attachment, that mind exists in the nature of discriminating wisdom. When we have jealousy or envy, it exists in the nature of all-accomplishing wisdom. Therefore, these five poisons remain in the five wisdoms of buddha.







Again, the Light of Lucifer inverted, is Satan.


"Demonius est deus inversus"


A Gnostic Kabbalistic commentary on an excerpt from Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages":



Gnostic Egyptian Cosmic Drama







[edit on 11-12-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:44 PM
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Yes, I realize that. Nice summary.

Have fun trying to explain that to christians though


[edit on 11-12-2007 by Skyfloating]



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Actually, I would suggest that there is no connection between Satan and Lucifer. Lucifer simply means the shining one, and there is evidence to suggest the writers of the old testament were indeed talking about a regional king that was about to be taken down. The translators of the new testament simply wanted some sort of common theme with the old testament, so they inserted the name Lucifer and started proclaiming it to mean satan.

This could be a problem since if Lucifer = Satan, and the old testament verse describes Lucifer as the bright morning star, then what does this say about this verse:

Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Darn translators and their agendas.



posted on Dec, 11 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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What I'm saying, is that Christ is the Light and Fire. Luci-Light Fer-Fire: Christus-Lucifer.




"I am the light of the world."

- The Book of John


"For our God is a consuming fire."

- Hebrews 12:29




"Satan" is the Light and Fire of Christ inverted.


Nothing can exist without the Christ.

However, it is taught that Christ does not create Satan directly.

Man's "lower self", so to speak, created Satan with the symbolic fall in Lemuria, when she and he(Isha and Ish) ate the forbidden fruit(remember that smelling it's sweet aroma is not the same as eating it).


But yeah, if I've to go to hell for not believing in the "Jesus" of conventional non-Gnostic Roman-Christianity, Calvinism, Protestantism, etc. that has, for over 1500 years, enslaved and murdered more than any other 'religious' institution in known history; then I would rather go to hell.






[edit on 11-12-2007 by Tamahu]



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