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Jehovahs Witness, cult or religion?

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posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by _Volt_

Originally posted by never_tell
i think they'd be considered a "sect" of christianity....


Yeah, a bloody bloody annoying one...


I can imagine the Greeks and the Romans saying the same thing about the first century Christians. lol. I can understand where you are comeing from though.

They don't mean to be annoying, but there is no way they can tell whether someone has an interest in discussing the Bible unless they ask.




posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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I think my house is on a no-go list for all Mormons and JW's.
I see them on my street and they know I am home and they will look at me from a distance but they will nor talk to me.
Years ago they would but it could be that they will not bother with someone who already seems to know about their religion.
I had a bad experience with a Mormon that pissed me off. I was going around applying for jobs and this one business owner acted like he was interested in me so I sat there for a long time with him just to find out he was giving me a pitch for his religion.
I had serious business to do and he was wasting important time for me.
That would be enough to not want to be a Mormon, just from one idiot like that being, to me, deceptive. Lying for Jesus?


[edit on 29-8-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You could be on their DNC(Do Not Call) list, in which case you most likely will never be called on again, accept by accident.

If you threaten them with physical harm or use apostate style idea's, you can land on that list. And I am sure some want to be on that list so they don't get disturbed anyways.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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You know what, there's a lot of websites out there that bash the JW's. I don't which one is more slandered, the JW's or the Mormons?

I guess if they didn't come to your door, there would be less bashing.


The grave pyramid of Russel is quite interesting. I doubt its importance has anything to do with the magical arts of the Egyptians. I read of copy of the Photo Drama of Creation and it said that pastor Russel thought Melchisedec built the great pyramid after the shepherd kings invaded Egypt. Anyway, I think the JW's dropped the pyramid as being important.

If you want to go after someone who is glued to the pyramids of egypt, I would suggest the American government with their Masonic Order. I think some of the founding fathers, like George Washington, thought they were ushuring in the kingdom of God on earth, by creating the United States of America. It's no coincidence that Virginia and Maryland encompass the District of Columbia (D.C.)-They saw this as the Virgin Mary giving birth to the new governmental seat of the U.S. They thought that the woman in revelation was the virgin Mary.



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
You know what, there's a lot of websites out there that bash the JW's. I don't which one is more slandered, the JW's or the Mormons?

I guess if they didn't come to your door, there would be less bashing.


The grave pyramid of Russel is quite interesting. I doubt its importance has anything to do with the magical arts of the Egyptians. I read of copy of the Photo Drama of Creation and it said that pastor Russel thought Melchisedec built the great pyramid after the shepherd kings invaded Egypt. Anyway, I think the JW's dropped the pyramid as being important.

If you want to go after someone who is glued to the pyramids of egypt, I would suggest the American government with their Masonic Order. I think some of the founding fathers, like George Washington, thought they were ushuring in the kingdom of God on earth, by creating the United States of America. It's no coincidence that Virginia and Maryland encompass the District of Columbia (D.C.)-They saw this as the Virgin Mary giving birth to the new governmental seat of the U.S. They thought that the woman in revelation was the virgin Mary.


Which Melchizedek? You do know "Melchizedek" is a title not a specific person right?

Our leader is called President Bush, "President" isn't his first name. It's an Illuminati Pyramid, notice it has a capstone. The founder of the JWs was from the Russell Bloodline of the Illuminati.

Russell Bloodline

13 Illuminati Bloodlines



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 




lets see, jesus said you could identify his people by love.

- JWs do not join the army. even if it means being sent to prison for years. they are the only religion that does this.

- JWs are known to be honest hard workers. i used to work at a cafe that employed a few. i can attest to this personally.

jws are KNOWN for these things. so if you count them by their fruits, id say they are doing really good. certainly doesnt sound like the evil, secretive, satan worshipping, card carrying commies you seem to think they are.


I don't think the rank and file are, I said the "FOUNDER" was an Illuminati. The rank and file I'm sure are trying their best to find the Truth as you and I are. Russell was the "evil tree".

Don't put words in my mouth Miriam, I have blasted their founder and their pseudo-translators of their NWT Bible.




again i ask, of what use to the illuminati is an organization that doesnt concern itself with politics or war?


The Illuminati are haters of Christianity. They could care less if you support or reject war, support or reject government. They are against Christianity. And if they can get you to deny Jesus Christ they have considered their work to be good.




again, where is your proof they were the commitee. you posted a site that said they were but it offered no proof.


"The Editor of the NWT was Frederick William Franz.[19] The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.[20] Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.[21][22] His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. [23] According to A. H. Macmillan, in addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.[24]

Wikipedia

www.towerwatch.com...




the rapture is theological B.S. if you read the bible instead of clinging to dogma, you´d realize this.


Tell that to Paul. I trust Paul.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


lol, this is the type of stuff you websites state


The manuscripts in question were found to derive from an underground of occult scripture within Christendom that has been passed through successive generations since the apostolic era. As the occult Traditions have sought to infiltrate and transform the secular establishment, the Church has historically been attended by an Alexandrian Tradition, which seeks to smuggle Gnostic doctrines into the Sacred Canon via the "revision" or "correction" of Scripture. Bible scholar, Dr. Herman Hoskier parallels the folly of Israel returning to Egypt to the Anglican scribes searching for inspired writings in the ancient house of bondage:

"Nearly all revision appears to center in Egypt, and to suppose all the other documents wrong when opposed to these Egyptian documents is unsound and unscientific . . . those who accept the Westcott and Hort text are basing their accusations of untruth as to the Gospellists upon an Egyptian revision current 200 to 450 A.D. and abandoned between 500 to 1881, merely revived in our day and stamped as genuine." (83)


calling JWs gnostics is like calling chicago "heavy metal".

and for such an extreme view you have (which is all it is.. extreme) you still dont see that the NWT was not changed to any extreme. proof lies in the fact i can disprove the trinity with the KJV

so you keep flogging a dead horse trying to make this connect. but from someone who has compared the texts, i dont see it.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I don't think the rank and file are, I said the "FOUNDER" was an Illuminati. The rank and file I'm sure are trying their best to find the Truth as you and I are. Russell was the "evil tree"

Don't put words in my mouth Miriam, I have blasted their founder and their pseudo-translators of their NWT Bible.


no, you havent.

calling someone a mason doesnt "blast" them.

in the somewhat short time ive associated with them, ive seen nothing "mason" about them.



The Illuminati are haters of Christianity. They could care less if you support or reject war, support or reject government. They are against Christianity. And if they can get you to deny Jesus Christ they have considered their work to be good.


you have 2 scriptures that "prove" jesus divinity... one is a gross mistranslation with a BASIC grammatical error, the other is refutted by jesus HIMSELF. and thats in the KJV!

if you are going to use a doctrine to trump against JWs, use something more substantial




"The Editor of the NWT was Frederick William Franz.[19] The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.[20] Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.[21][22] His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. [23] According to A. H. Macmillan, in addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.[24]

Wikipedia

www.towerwatch.com...


neither are proof, sorry.

the wiki site is made by the public, so its verification can be... awkward.

and the second is a blatant anti JW site.

and even if franz was involved, who says that there wasnt other translators involved doing the actual translation?


Tell that to Paul. I trust Paul.


right, tell paul you agree with a doctrine that came into existence in the 1800's



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Russell Bloodline



· The WT Society performs a secret ritual every year which is their primary ritual. This ritual is actually the ancient gnostic (satanic) ritual of saying no to the body of Christ. This ancient satanic ritual is now secretly practiced under the disguise of the Memorial Supper - where the elements of communion are passed and no one partakes of the elements.


apparently the only requirement for something to be a "satanic ritual", is for someone to call it that

LOL


(When I say ‘no one’ I mean that in a qualified sense-only a small group are allowed to partake. The actual figures of how many partake of the elements is a totally fictitious figure according to my sources, which is created at Bethel headquarters in Brooklyn.


hysterical too.





[edit on 30-8-2008 by miriam0566]



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 

???

Are you high? That source, (nor I), called the JWs Gnostics.

Re-read it.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566
 

???

Are you high? That source, (nor I), called the JWs Gnostics.

Re-read it.


never said "you said"

i said the "calling jws gnostic...."



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



no, you havent.

calling someone a mason doesnt "blast" them.

in the somewhat short time ive associated with them, ive seen nothing "mason" about them.


I'm not sure I can continue this debate if you continually distort my position and words.

Copy/paste where I called JWs, or Mr. Russell a "mason". I said he was from the Russell Illuminati Bloodline. Other sources pointed out he was a 33 degree Freemason. My FATHER is a 32 degree master mason.

All Illuminati are masons, not all masons are Illuminati. The Illunminati are the "inner circle" of the masons, they practice Luciferarian doctrine. You're using circular reasoning to put words in my mouth. I don't do this to you, so why are you doing it to me?

It's logically flawed and very poor debating skills to misrepresent your opponents positions. Please stop it.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by miriam0566
 

???

Are you high? That source, (nor I), called the JWs Gnostics.

Re-read it.


never said "you said"

i said the "calling jws gnostic...."

Miriam, STOP it! That SOURCE you copy/pasted didn't EITHER!

Do you see the words 'That source' above in my post??????



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 





right, tell paul you agree with a doctrine that came into existence in the 1800's



Wow how ignorant!! That is either a bold-faced lie, or you are ignorant to the fact that the doctrine dates to the first century. 60 AD was the first recorded writings of the rapture, well of course after Paul wrote Thesselonians. People who deny, or pervert the rapture doctrine claim it didn't exist till the 1800s. That, I'm afraid, isn't denying ignorance on their parts.

History of the rapture doctrine


Sorry Miriam, people who claim it came from the 1800's are either liars or weren't aware of it being taught before then.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 
Cool, I see that after reading the Illuminati Russell Bloodline link you don't refute the fact that he was from the Illuminati.

You should star me for that.

Care to refute the fact that Westcott and Hort were deeply into the occult? Or that Westcott didn't found the "Hermes Club"? Or that they weren't involved in the Theosophy Society?






posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


The "Rapture" wasn't around until the 1,800s huh??

Apostle Paul:

“For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Odd, Paul says believers on Earth when Jesus Christ returns to the clouds will not die, but will be caught up together with them in the clouds.

Did Paul write Thesselonians in the 1,800s?

www.raptureready.com...

www.according2prophecy.org...

www.raptureme.com...


Deny ignorance Miriam.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
 
Cool, I see that after reading the Illuminati Russell Bloodline link you don't refute the fact that he was from the Illuminati.

You should star me for that.

Care to refute the fact that Westcott and Hort were deeply into the occult? Or that Westcott didn't found the "Hermes Club"? Or that they weren't involved in the Theosophy Society?


i dont have to refute anything... all anyone needs to do to see if they are ¨iluminati¨ influenced is to look at the organization.

you see conspiracy and satan worshippers, which is ironic, because i see the one organization on this god forsaken rock thats actually doing what jesus told them too.

but your too prejudiced to see that.

you want to see hypocracy, look at the church



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The "Rapture" wasn't around until the 1,800s huh??

Apostle Paul:

“For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Odd, Paul says believers on Earth when Jesus Christ returns to the clouds will not die, but will be caught up together with them in the clouds.


so then if everyone faithful goes to heaven, who is the great multitude?

rev 7:[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

if the righteous are up in heaven, who inherits the earth?

psalm 37:[28] For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
[29] The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

who are they?

proverbs 2:[21] For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
[22] But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

who?!

matt 5:[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


Deny ignorance Miriam.


i deny ignorance by digging into the matter and finding out, not blindly believing.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


If you threaten them with physical harm or use apostate style idea's, you can land on that list.

I guess that is what I was trying to get at. If you tell them something Like,"I used to go to kingdom Hall with my friends, but I have a serious problem with one of your fundamental beliefs." you do not look like a good prospect and they would be smart to not waste their time.
For the Mormons, I told them about a vision I had of the Angel Moroni blowing his trumpet, to announce the end of the world."
They do not want any of their people hearing about that.



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