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Jehovahs Witness, cult or religion?

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posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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Funny you should say that, Noturtypical, as i find the coptic scriptures to be the ones with the most moving powerful scripture, and definitely much more spiritually based and having more of a "personal relationship with god" feel than any other books in the old or new testament. The are a wonderful and touching blend of Christianity and zen.




posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by pexx421
 



i find the coptic scriptures to be the ones with the most moving powerful scripture, and definitely much more spiritually based and having more of a "personal relationship with god" feel than any other books in the old or new testament. The are a wonderful and touching blend of Christianity and zen.

Gnostic writings have that feel as it is intrinsic to their whole claim to contain secret knowledge that the straight-forward Scriptures 'lack'. You have rightly identified a different feel to these writings: you can choose the gnostic writings or you can choose the Scriptures, the Word of God.


Guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverant, empty speech and contradictions from the "knowledge" [Greek - gnosis (whence comes the word 'gnostic')] that falsely bears that name. By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith.

1 Tomothy 6:20&21

As JWs esteem these texts as the basis for their contrary translations, they too have deviated and strayed from the faith.

They follow a book. It's not the Bible.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The "lead" translator of the NWT had only 2 years of Greek language study, and "self taught" himself Hebrew.

Doesn't this seem slightly odd to you? You trust a 5 man team where their "lead" translator had only 2 years of studying Greek over Doctorates in the field???
[edit on 28-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]


Your dislke for JW's apparent, However you are certanly entitled to your opinion, However many of the statements you have made and charges you have leveled are just plain wrong. I am going to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you are simply parrotting what you have read on the sites you listed without doing any of your own research. Quite understandable in ths age of instant access to information. (accurate or not).

Let me take a moment and shed some light on one of the charges you have made with regard to the qualifications of the translators.
This should be of interst to all concerned with gaining an accurate understanding of this matter:

You might be interested in this info about their translation process.
In their 1950 Watchtower they made this statement, in an open letter to To Matthew Smith,
Monsignor of the Roman Catholic Church in America,




No parts of the Bible have been rewritten in this New World Translation to fit the beliefs of Jehovah’s witnesses, as you blatantly assert. The Translation Committee did not construct its own Greek text of the Christian Scriptures. No; but on page 8 of the Foreword it notifies us that the Committee used the 1948 Macmillan Company edition of the Westcott and Hort text of 1881, besides S. C. E. Legg’s editions of Matthew and Mark, and that it also took into consideration “other texts, including that prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle and that compiled by the Spanish Jesuit scholar José María Bover and that by the other Jesuit scholar A. Merk”.

Concerning the same Greek text mainly used by the Committee, E. J. Goodspeed says in his Preface in “An American Translation” (1939): “I have closely followed the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, now generally accepted. Every scholar knows its great superiority to the late and faulty Greek texts from which the early English translations from Tyndale to the Authorized Version were made.”


I hope this helps. Please feel free to go on disliking the JW's, but at least get your facts straight.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Sparky63]

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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i dont think truth is something you can get from a book or something one person can give to another. Just as a master painter cannot "give" his skill at painting to a student, he may only show that student a path (one path of many) to find that skill within himself, so we cannot "give" or "receive" truth from a book or from others, we can only truly find it within.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Sparky63
 
Are you freaking KIDDING me????

Westcott and Hort???

Ahem:




This Satanic society used Catholic Church Sources in order to produce its New World Translation. Westcott and Hort were two Satanists, founders of the Hermes Club and members of famed Russian witch Madam Blavatsky's Theosophy cult.


watch.pair.com...

Wescott and Hort were SATANISTS.

Un-freaking believable, no WONDER your NWT denies Jesus Christ's divinity!!

Your JW was founded by a member of the Illuminati, and the "scholars" who translated the NWT followed writings of Satanists.

LOL!!!

Do NOT be surprised why you'll be left behind.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to be "Christians", they more relate to Judaism. In order for the to be Christians they would need to worship/accept Jesus Christ is God made flesh.

They deny Jesus Christ was God made flesh. They think he was just a man like you and I.

There have been other groups, in History that have shared the opinion on the Trinity that JW's have. It is a legitimate form of Christianity called unitarian. It states that there is one God. So, to say that JW's can not be Christian is just wrong. They do not go along with the majority opinion that was put in that position by force and much burnings of "heretics".
John calls Jesus the Son of God because he was the Logos. Read John 1 with the understanding of the word "word" meaning "the Expression of Intention of God".
John the Baptist was the voice but Jesus was the word, itself.
Jesus was the "the Expression of Intention of God", when he was conceived and when he was born, and then onward.
The prophets, up to the time of the Baptist, were the voice but once he pointed out exactly who he was preaching of, Jesus was that word that they were only the voice of.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Hogwash, their founder was from the Russell Illuminati bloodline, their NWT translators were buffoons, none of which were trained in Koine Greek, and the rubbish they did translate came from Westcott and Hort, two satanists.

It's Luciferian doctrine. Just because some parts are accurate, doesn't make the entire book accurate. That's a logical fallacy.

When one considers who their founder was, who their translators were, and where they got their translations from the ONLY logical conclusion is the JW's and their garbage Bible are straight out of the pits of hell.

Do we need the Illuminati and Satanists to tell us whom God really is???

Hardly. With that I wipe the dust off my feet. Peace.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
Funny you should say that, Noturtypical, as i find the coptic scriptures to be the ones with the most moving powerful scripture, and definitely much more spiritually based and having more of a "personal relationship with god" feel than any other books in the old or new testament. The are a wonderful and touching blend of Christianity and zen.


AND ZEN????

Zen?

Didn't you read where I showed that the Coptic Greek scriptures came out of Egypt and had Buddhist and Hindu influence?

I'm sure it had hints on "Zen" within them.

The Coptic Greek translations are mingled with Buddhist and Hindu influence. That's where the Gnostics get their absurd ideas about Jesus from, the Coptic Greek versions.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Sparky63
 
Are you freaking KIDDING me????

Westcott and Hort???

Ahem:




This Satanic society used Catholic Church Sources in order to produce its New World Translation. Westcott and Hort were two Satanists, founders of the Hermes Club and members of famed Russian witch Madam Blavatsky's Theosophy cult.


watch.pair.com...



Surely you recognize that the author of this nonsence you just quoted has no credibility? You are obviously grasping at straws and willing to swallow any bit of information and regurgitate it as fact when you obviously are ignorant of its source.

The Author of the tripe you quoted above is Barbara Aho Blavatsky.
Who is this woman you are confident is a great source of accurate information? Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, was the founder of the Theosophical Movement. Her ties to Spiritualism date from her arrival in New York in July, 1873. She first worked as a dressmaker and, after her acquaintance with Colonel Henry Steel Olcott at Chittenden, Vermont, in the house of the Eddy Brothers (famous physical mediums), she launched a career in journalism, writing mostly on Spiritualism for magazines.

"For over 15 years have I fought my battle for the blessed truth," she wrote in The Spiritual Scientist, Boston, December 3, 1874. "For the sake of Spiritualism I have left my house; an easy life amongst a civilized society, and have become a panderer upon the face of this earth." .

A very pathetic attempt to discredt two of the most respected theologians and scholars. You should really check your facts before you spew such venom.

Please feel free to supply a crediible source for your assertion that Wesscott & Hort were Satanists.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Sparky63]

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, the Jehovah's witnesses are a strange bunch. They will tell you that they don't believe in a God, only Jehovah. You say tomatoe I'll say tomatoe (too-mah-toe), right?


I'll say 'tomato'.

The only distinction I see between a 'cult' and a 'religion' is its respective number of adherents. All 'religions' started as 'cults'.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I am not a JW, I am a SDA, so I am somewhat sympathetic to them.
I know one of the JW's two founders was a former SDA but I do not know about the other guy.
I would be a little suspicious of some of these claims against them for the fact that they were thrown in prison during WWI because they were anti-war.
That seems to me to go against the idea that they were part of some big conspiracy.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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regarding these two British Bible scholars, B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. These men were firm believers in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures.

Westcott and Hort worked on their Greek text for twenty-eight years, from 1853 to 1881. While working independently of each other, they continually compared notes. “They gathered up in themselves,” as A. Souter puts it, “all that was most valuable in the work of their predecessors.” They took every conceivable factor and every pertinent probability into consideration.

Their work has been termed “the most important contribution to the scientific criticism of the New Testament yet made.” Rotherham used it for his later editions, speaking of Westcott and Hort as “consummate masters of textual criticism.” Goodspeed states in the preface of An American Translation (1923):

“I have closely followed the Greek Text of Westcott and Hort, now generally accepted. Every scholar knows its superiority to the late and faulty texts from which the early English translations from Tyndale to the Authorized Version were made.” The text of Westcott and Hort also served as the foundation of the Greek Scripture portion of the American Standard Version (1901) and the Revised Standard Version (1946).

The translators of the Revised Standard Version also used a still later, very authoritative text, that of Nestle, which text the New World Bible Translation Committee also consulted. That Committee, as can be seen from their footnotes, made comparisons with many other fine texts, both in Greek and in other languages. For example, they consulted nineteen Hebrew versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures that served as a basis for their using the divine name Jehovah in many places in the Christian Greek Scriptures.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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PLease do not forget that up until 1950 the JW's used the King James version almost exclusively. Their recogntion of the pagan origin of the trinity & Christmas celebrations were based on their careful study of the KJV.

Most educated people today recognize the pagan origin of many of the celebrations promoted by so called "Christian" religions and can understand why one who desired to follow Christ would reject them.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Here is a scholarly source for Information on Westcott & Hort.
www.westcotthort.com...

Strange, in their biography there is no mention of their being Satanists.

In case you are wondering the Biography was taken from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. I hope this helps you to see that your claims about them were incorrect.

I harbor no animosity to you, I just want people to base their conclusions on accurate information rather than baseless claims.

I think most would agree that to incorrectly label someone a Satanist without sound proof can be considerd slanderous, and a violation of the eighth or ninth commandment depending on the Bible use use.

I'm sure though that this was not your intention and it was simply an honest mistake on your part.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Hogwash, their founder was from the Russell Illuminati bloodline,
\\what use would the illuminati have with an organization that encourages its members not to vote or to take office of any kind?

isnt the illuminati about connections?



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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Is he buried under a huge Illuminati pyramid or not?? Did ANY of you click the "external Image" links to my post from the previous page?

it makes ZERO sense to try and engage you guys/girls in debate if I'm the only one looking at the presented arguments.

The JWs were formed by a member of the Russell Illuminati bloodline. The authors of the NWT had ZERO Koine Greek education, the lead "scholar" only has 21 months training in classical Greek, zero in Koine Greek.

And their took their works from Westcott and Hort, known Satanists.


You can't for a second thing these people did the work of God. They serve satan and have lied to millions of people.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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Well, i have often thought that jesus (if he lived) or those who made him up, most likely got the ideas for most of his messages from travels in other areas where he or they were exposed to the great spirit of buddhism, and then brought back these wonderful ideas back to the middle east where their balance and compassion was much needed.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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I was able to look up on the internet the number of Greek JW's

Greece 28,243

So give it up with the "they don't know Greek" arguement.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
I was able to look up on the internet the number of Greek JW's

Greece 28,243

So give it up with the "they don't know Greek" arguement.


Bull!

How many of today's Greeks who speak MODERN Greek can speak or know how to understand Koine Greek????

Case in point:

You and I speak "modern English".

Here is an example of "Middle English" by Chauncer : (And this isn't even "Old English")





Moot point, sorry.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Is he buried under a huge Illuminati pyramid or not?? Did ANY of you click the "external Image" links to my post from the previous page?

I guess we should consider America evil, since it was founded my 33rd degree Freemasons.
Regardless of who founded it, I doubt that it has much to do with what we have today.
Both the JW and SDA's started out from their concern about the 2300 day prophesy of Daniel. They used the day for year principle to calculate out what the early proponents believed was the Second coming.
Technically, both organizations still believe that there is some sort of significance to these dates, or whatever, but that is not today a reason why people are persuaded to join up.
Some people are searching for something that is not so tainted by the world and degraded.
They may see one of these relatively newer organizations as representing a break from the fallen Babylon of a conglomerate of all sorts of pagan influence.
But they are not attracted by some long-dead leaders who were never deified, then or now.
So it is ludicrous to even think of either one of them as being cults.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by jmdewey60]



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