Jehovahs Witness, cult or religion?

ive been told that the JW's are actually cosidered a cult and not a recognized religion. does anyone have any information or good link's on this subject?

im interested in finding out about this as my brother has been involved in this "group" for about 9 yrs now and does not seem to be himself anymore. he has distance himself from our family and has become almost like a robot who non of us any longer know.

ive been trying to figure out a way to get through to him as i see him getting worse as the days pass. any info or ideas on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

i think they'd be considered a "sect" of christianity....

In my opinion, all religions are cults. If you simply look at the definition of the word "cult", anyway:

1: formal religious veneration : worship2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator 5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

That said, the only thing I know of that really helps people to get away from religion is to encourage them to have contact with others outside of the religion, to question the information being fed to them, etc. It may or may not work, and they're ultimately going to do what they want to do anyway. But, that's about the only advice I can give.

IMO there is only one thing that seperates a cult from a religion...the number of subscribers (followers, not sure what the best term would be). Religions all have their hokey aspects, and its just once they get excepted by a large number of people, that the followers(?) become "un-crazy", look at the mormons...

They aren't really a cult, so much but a kind of christianity based on a very bad interpretation of the Bible. They get to carry the cult stigma with them because thier ideas are very much at times out of the Christian norms. As to your brother this is a typical behavior because the rest of your family isn't JW. So he is going to feel less and less comfortable around you as time goes on. Probably the only way you will ever talk him out of it is to learn what he believes and use it to argue him out of it. I have seen many reference materials that will teach you how to do just that. Other than that you will just have to hope he can reason it out himself.

Well, the Jehovah's witnesses are a strange bunch. They will tell you that they don't believe in a God, only Jehovah. You say tomatoe I'll say tomatoe (too-mah-toe), right?

I don't necessarily think they are a "cult," but they certainly aren't mainstream.. I think I can better respond when I'm sober... Ask me tomorrow.

just think of religion as.. Multi Level Marketing and JW are Amway

It was really quite easy to be able to get a number of statistics and what Jehovah's Witnesses believe in by going to their main website located here:
www.watchtower.org...

To save everyone just a little bit of time, I've linked some of the more asked questions (although I was unable to find a FAQ).

Number of Languages their publications are produced in... 311 Languages

Reported Number of Jehovah's Witnesses Worldwide (as of 2006)... 6,741,444

What Do They Believe?

Brief rundown of what they believe in (Biblical listings are used as/for their references to such beliefs)

Bible is God's Word and is truth: 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; 2 Pet. 1:20, 21; John 17:17
God's name is Jehovah: Ps. 83:18; Isa. 26:4; 42:8, AS; Ex. 6:3
Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him: Matt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28
Christ was first of God's creations: Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14
Christ died on a stake, not a cross: Gal. 3:13; Acts 5:30
Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans: Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6; 1 Pet. 2:24
Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person: 1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 6:9; Rev. 1:17, 18
We are now in the 'time of the end': Matt. 24:3-14; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; Luke 17:26-30
Kingdom under Christ will rule earth in righteousness and peace: Isa. 9:6, 7; 11:1-5; Dan. 7:13, 14; Matt. 6:10
Kingdom will bring ideal living conditions to earth: Ps. 72:1-4; Rev. 7:9, 10, 13-17; 21:3, 4
Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated: Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
God will eliminate present system of things in the battle at Har-Magedon: Rev. 16:14, 16; Zeph. 3:8; Dan. 2:44; Isa. 34:2; 55:10, 11
Wicked will be eternally destroyed: Matt. 25:41-46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9
People God approves will receive everlasting life: John 3:16; 10:27, 28; 17:3; Mark 10:29, 30
The human soul ceases to exist at death: Ezek. 18:4; Eccl. 9:10; Ps. 6:5; 146:4; John 11:11-14
Hell is mankind's common grave: Job 14:13, Dy; Rev. 20:13, 14,
Hope for dead is resurrection: 1 Cor. 15:20-22; John 5:28, 29; 11:25, 26
Prayers are to be directed only to Jehovah through Christ: John 14:6, 13, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5
Spiritism must be shunned: Deut. 18:10-12; Gal. 5:19-21; Lev. 19:31
Satan is invisible ruler of world: 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 12:31
Obey human laws that do not conflict with God's laws: Matt. 22:20, 21; 1 Pet. 2:12; 4:15
Bible's laws on morals must be obeyed: 1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Heb. 13:4; 1 Tim. 3:2; Prov. 5:1-23
Man did not evolve but was created: Isa. 45:12; Gen. 1:27; Matt. 19:4


There were a ton of others but these seem to be probably the most asked about what they believe in.. And to be honest... I'm tired.. but I hope these help a bit with the Original Posters query about JW's... BTW.. I think with over 6.7 million believers... that probably places them in a category as a religion and not a sect or cult...lol. All of the above was gathered off their official website and I simply copied and pasted the links and info off it... please don't shoot or blame the moderator for content beyond his control...


I wish you success in getting your brother back in the good graces of the family


[edit on 22-11-2007 by JohnnyAnonymous]

I'd consider JWs as 'wierd', but not a 'cult', at least not in the negative sense of the word. Incidentally, I thought JWs had more members than that, like 10-12 million or so. I thought I remembered them having almost the same number as my own faith, the Mormons, but I guess we have more!

In my mind, at least, a sect is related to or derived from another branch of religion. According to my definition, then, I would not call JWs a sect because I believe that they are quite distinct from any other branch of Christianity.

I don't know about your brother's case, but JWs tend often to stick together, and associate mostly with other JWs. It's possible that he's been neglecting his family relationships if that is the case. I'm not really sure what you can do about it, but I'd try making sure he's included in family activities and stuff like that, and try to build on stuff you have in common outside the JW religion.

reply to post by trig_grl


religion = cult = religion

they're the same thing, the only difference is that a "religion" has cultural legitimacy and a much greater following than a "cult"

[edit on 22/11/07 by UnholyP]

Hello everyone.

First, to answer to the original poster, I'm sure brother hasn't changed. He is the same person as before. His worldview and goals in life might have changed, and that is why he seems distant. He has found the Truth what the Bible really teaches, and seems to be avoiding you, because you have now very different meaning in your lives. I'm am sure, that if you just confront him politely and inquire about his beliefs, you will see that he is the same old person, but much more happier. If he thinks he's ready, he will discuss about his views. I am certain that you will be surprised positively.

Regarding the religion thing, we're not recognized in most of the world as part of Christianity (mainly because doctrinal issues, trinity etc.) But still, even opposed with the greatest of fervor, we are happy to tell the comforting truths about the Bible to anyone willing to listen
Some are thinking 'Yes, YOUR Bible's truths'... To them; yes, we do have our own translation. But if you study it, it doesn't differ almost at all from 'regular' Bibles, i.e King James (not those modern fancy translations). We have only restored the name of God, Jehova, to the replaced names and titles. Jehova was frequent in earlier Bibles, in example Scandinavia, the name Jehova was removed only few years back. So it is not new, and certainly not made up by JWs.

Hopefully this has convinced someone, that we're not an 'evil cult' reigning terror through your doors ) We encourage to study things by yourself, to be honest to yourself and not to let other people alter your own judgment.

I wish everyone a happy rest of '07 o/

Originally posted by Jovi1
They aren't really a cult, so much but a kind of christianity based on a very bad interpretation of the Bible. They get to carry the cult stigma with them because thier ideas are very much at times out of the Christian norms. As to your brother this is a typical behavior because the rest of your family isn't JW. So he is going to feel less and less comfortable around you as time goes on. Probably the only way you will ever talk him out of it is to learn what he believes and use it to argue him out of it. I have seen many reference materials that will teach you how to do just that. Other than that you will just have to hope he can reason it out himself.

I adhere to the teachings and principles of the Abrahamic Faiths (Talmud, Holy Bible and the Quran).

What the witnesses do to their own members is damaging. Yet, they allow pedophiles to return back as elders. Believe me, I know.

I have a friend, who was disfellowshipped because she started smoking after the untimely death of her parents and then to add insult to injury who elder sister done some additional harm to her. In the end, instead of the witnesses showing compassion and trying to help her they sent her to the back of the congregation telling her she was disfellowshipped. She understood that to me an that she was not worthy of G-d. It lowered her self-esteem, she managed to come to me fortunately, before she took means to end her life. I have had to teach her the true nature of G-d and to let her know that she was wronged, and that G-d loves the sinner. 'Saints are sinners who keep on trying.' I gave her the poem footprints and had to buy her another bible, which she loved, as her sister threw hers out.

I care deeply for her like a little sister, but you should see how broken she is by their false interpretation of the scriptures.

We all fall short of His glory, we were told two most important commandments which are shared by the Talmud and the Quran, Love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself. Three sects of the Abrahamic faiths share that same philosophy. I know, I read all three.

Besides, where were they when she needed them to comfort her? She turned to smoking to calm her nerves. She is trying really hard to give up smoking and she only drinks lager. The way I look at it, her sin is not great compared to the elders that have a history of pedophilia. I know a girl, whose dad was an elder in the JW's and he was forgiven, until he got arrested. I think he has now been taken back into the fold. What gets me is that what he did is the greater sin worth disfellowshipping, as what he did was a criminal act against children. Yet, his wife still being with him knowing that he is still doing this sin, goes around and ministers to people like my friend, and she is no doubt one of them that disfellowshipped her over her few minor sins that are resolvable with help and a great deal of love from friends and family, and those in the know.

My husband is a former JW and although he wasn't disfellowshipped, he said he mights as well be. He said that they put on heirs and graces, but have their own crosses to bear. Which, I knew already, when people of any religion make out that they are as pure as the driven snow, and have not fallen short of G-d's good graces they are hypocrites. You can be devout and still fall short of His glory. The important thing is to try and do better, and just do your best to live a G-dly life without the false pretences.

I find people who minister to other people making out that they don't slip up now and then and are not perfect are liars. Yeshua spent His life amongst sinners and He loved them. He said he came for the sinners, and in this day and age, it is even harder to walk upright without slipping now and again, but you know one day that you will be able to walk upright with both feet on the ground, because you have learned from all your slips and falls, and G-d's love makes us secure in that knowledge. Hence, He requires us to forgive those who wrong us, so that we can be forgiven when we have erred.

So how is it that the witnesses take some pure simple messages from the Lord and apply pressure to their congregation to reach goals that may or may not be immediately obtainable to the individual. What they need to remember is to remind people that as much as He hates sin, he loves the sinner who repents and follows Him. He knows that following Him is a narrow but rocky path, but He is there leading the way.

The witnesses due to my lineage have tried to get me to come into their fold. I will not entertain them, as I know that they will be judged. I have seen their act of christianity to their fellow bretheren, and I don't like it.

They need to learn that the word of G-d is not just the written word, but words of action. Faith without deeds is dead. Hence, their religion is dead, as they don't carry the deeds to back up the scriptures.

All it took is for those that they chose to disfellowship to have a bit of understanding and help, and most of all love from the other members, they would know that they teach the gospel correctly.

They are never willing to extend a hand to the suffering. I have never seen a witness extend a hand to a homeless person. I am disabled and even I find it in my heart to cry for those who are homeless, as I am not in a very good position to help them. Most of them I see are asleep in the street trying to get out of the cold. If I had my own house, and not a council property, I would help those I could by taking them into my home and the warmth.

There are some who are emotionally scarred and that is bad enough for these poor souls. Why don't the witnesses give them blankets and food and learn what it means to be a christian, by reaching out to the vulnerable and not judge them for their situation.

Epitomy of a cult.. check out www.eaec.org...
Plenty of nonbiblical beliefs including >>
Cult Beliefs

They believe that Jesus did not rise from the dead. Russell says His body either dissolved into gases or is still preserved somewhere.

They believe that God is not triune (i.e., Father, Son, and Holy Ghost).

They believe that there is no such thing as a hell of everlasting torment. Hell is just the grave. The wicked are simply annihilated.

They believe that man has no spirit.

They believe the Holy Ghost is not a person of the Godhead, just a "life force" of God.

They exercise mind control over members.

They believe that man must work to be part of "God's system of things".

They believe that only the 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation will live in heaven with God.

They believe all dead people will have a second chance for eternal life at the millennium. If you do not prove worthiness at this time, you'll be destroyed.

The believe the blood of Christ does not forgive sins, it gives us a "chance" to live again. They have NO assurance of salvation as Jehovah's Witnesses who supposedly know the truth.

They believe Jesus is the archangel Michael - Jesus is a created being.

They believe Jesus is just an agent of God, nothing more.

They believe that Jesus' second coming occurred invisibly in 1874. Russell's successor, Rutherford, says this was confirmed by the creation of the first labor organization in 1874.

They believed Russell when he said that in 1914 the millennium would occur and righteousness would be restored to the earth. As 1914 approached, he, and his successor, changed the date to 1915, 1916, 1924, 1928, and on and on to the present day! When you ask a Jehovah's Witness about this, they'll give you the party line, "Well, the Watchtower is reaching different levels of enlightenment."

Also Christ told the crowd what should they do with the adulteress, when they wanted to stone her, His answer was, ' You who is without sin must cast the first stone.' the crowd turned and walked away.

He then turned to the adulteress and asked her where her persecutors were, and she knew he was the Son of the Most High. Christ refers to himself on more than one occasion, not as the Son of G-d, but the Son of Man, although the apostles and his followers knew him as the Son of G-d. To me, He is the Son of G-d and Man.

Christ said himself that he didn't come for the righteous, but the unrighteous. So to say that he came just for the obedient is a misnomer, and his death would have been in vain.

He came for all rich, poor, lame, well. John 12:44-50 sums up exactly and perfectly who he came for and it reads literal and needs no interpretation. He clearly states what he requires of us and he clearly states that he came to save the world, and those who believe upon him. He didn't segregate the way the JW's interpret.

Maybe, they should re-evaluate their lives and see what crosses that they have had to bear and the crosses that they have put on others. I am constantly re-evaluating my life. I always look for the log in my own eye, before I try and remove it from somebody else's.

I wonder if the members of the JW's can say that they have taken the log out of their own eye.

I don't hate JW's, but I don't like the way they put pressure on people to convert.

I was baptized, before I had my NDE where I was deemed clinically dead and a death certificate written in '99. I had not gone to church for quite some time, and had gone through a traumatic second divorce from a man whose son abused me and he had an affair, my first husband abused me and my daughter. I was living with the man, who is now my husband. Yet, I still found myself in this immense light that was alive and I felt completely well and at the same time scared, as I knew I was in the presence of my Lord, or in His bosom. Essentially, I was told that one life affects many and that if I chose to stay in the light or come back (there is a bit more that happened)that either choice I made would be the right one and that I would be loved regardless of the choice I made.

I came back as the nurses were prepping me for the morgue. I remember waking up with the sheet over my head in a side room.

I leave you with this for now.

xxxx

A lot of stuff pouring in...

Let's see;

Originally posted by BlackProjects

They believe that Jesus did not rise from the dead. Russell says His body either dissolved into gases or is still preserved somewhere.

Not sure what is this guy's source, but that has never been even considered. Jesus is in heaven, period.

They believe the Holy Ghost is not a person of the Godhead, just a "life force" of God.

Not exactly, Holy Ghost is the influencing force of God

They exercise mind control over members.

This is so spaced out claim, that I'm just gonna move on...

The believe the blood of Christ does not forgive sins, it gives us a "chance" to live again. They have NO assurance of salvation as Jehovah's Witnesses who supposedly know the truth.

Not quite, the blood of Christ Is the only way to have forgiveness, but God requires us to obey his wishes - he made us, he makes the rules. Fair game.

They believe Jesus is just an agent of God, nothing more.

He IS the only Son of God.

They believe that Jesus' second coming occurred invisibly in 1874. Russell's successor, Rutherford, says this was confirmed by the creation of the first labor organization in 1874.

??

They believed Russell when he said that in 1914 the millennium would occur and righteousness would be restored to the earth. As 1914 approached, he, and his successor, changed the date to 1915, 1916, 1924, 1928, and on and on to the present day! When you ask a Jehovah's Witness about this, they'll give you the party line, "Well, the Watchtower is reaching different levels of enlightenment."

Yes, this is partly right. In the quest for Biblical truth, witnesses did (and still do) make mistakes. One of these is the beginning of the Millenium. The first year was 1914, and when Christ did not return, some were disappointed. Next was year 1928, when they thought they would be raptured, in a sense. After that year had passed, the Bible scholars started to realize they were misinterpreting the scriptures. Later they gained more understanding mainly regarding Revelation and Daniel's prophecy and the big picture was beginning to form. They understood that we could not know or even guess the second coming of Christ, so it is foolish to start making assumptions. A lesson well learned.

By the way, similar Biblical views have been help throughout the centuries by such names as John Wycliff., William Tyndale, Johannes Campanus & Thomas Emlyn - rejected trinity, Henry Grew, George Storrs etc.)

Anyway, many of these claims of the Russell and others are mostly outlandish and usually downright absurd (mindcontrol - Really.). I happen to have the original copy of the Millenial Dawn, written by C.T. Russell. Some of the doctrines have taken shape since then, yes, but only because the understanding has grow. The scriptures haven't changed, just the interpretation, right? To me this is a sign of honesty, when you are willing to admit you have made a mistake and correct your views accordingly. The truth is always the same, and being dogmatic would be self-righteous.

Lastly, if Jesus didn't want us to segregate, why did he appoint apostles and tell them to make disciples? Why did the early Christians have a governing body? Because they were supposed to be in tight congregations, and not just a loose community of believers. This way, the followers of Christ would not forget who is the Head. It also keeps indoctrination and contradicting teaching from corrupting Christians. Almost all of apostle Paul's letters are directed to the elders of different congregations. Jehova is a God of order, and also his kingdom on Earth is orderly and carefully structured. Not just a random bunch of believers.

My fingers are bleedin' and the clock around these parts of the globe is, well, morning

[edit on 22-11-2007 by Deadpan]

Deadpan

The first year was 1914, and when Christ did not return, some were disappointed. Next was year 1928, when they thought they would be raptured, in a sense. After that year had passed, the Bible scholars started to realize they were misinterpreting the scriptures. Later they gained more understanding mainly regarding Revelation and Daniel's prophecy and the big picture was beginning to form. They understood that we could not know or even guess the second coming of Christ, so it is foolish to start making assumptions. A lesson well learned.

I have to disagree with most of the above. For one thing, I can't help but notice how you gloss over 1975 Deadpan. Doesn't seem like they learned their lesson very well after 1928 like you indicate, does it? You should have seen the faces at the 1975 assembly when it was announced a mistake had been made (again). It was a sad thing to watch.

Although I don't consider it a cult, it does have some cult like aspects. For example: Wives will be encouraged to leave their unbelieving husbands. If you smoke, drink to excess, give blood, celebrate xmas, or break any of their other religious principals they will be strongly discouraged from associating with you.

In short, the cult like aspect is that they discourage their members from associating with any past friends or family unless they too are members. (The bad association spoils useful habits principle). Thats why he doesn't hang out with you anymore. He is not flat out banned from seeing you. They simply use the threat of shunning, then disassociation, then disfellowshiping to enforce these rules.

Quite the opposite of Jesus leaving the flock of sheep behind, to help the one lost sheep IMO.

Anyway, in an attempt to be helpful, I caution trig_grl to be careful. If you tear down your brothers new world trying to "get to him", you may put his life at risk. Ex-JW's have a very high suicide rate. Look it up.

So if you really want to get close to him again, the only safe way to do it is to become a member or wait for him to leave on his own. I kid you not.

If you find another way, let me know. I have multiple family members I can speak with a little, and see sometimes, but hang out with on a regular basis? Never gonna happen. This is going on more that 20 years.

I have spent the past two weeks on the net learning about JW, and what it is they believe.. Why? 12 wks ago "grandma" had surgery, and it went well, but two weeks later we found that the surgery was not sucessful, and she would never be able to be removed from her feeding tube and eat normally again. Due to her age they could not do surgery again. No one in the family was JW, except grandma's son who had married a JW woman over 30 years ago. Grandmas son lives in another state, and our family didnt really know them at all. All we knew was that he and his wife are JW and they had two grown children who left "Kingdom Hall" some 12 yrs ago, and both thier parents shunned them, as is the JW way. They refuse to have anything to do with a shunned JW even if they are thier own children. The one grown child died last month and the parents did not even attend his funeral.. These ppl came here when Grandma had surgery, and were angered when they learned grandma had a blood transfusion..GRANDMA is NOT nor has ever been JW..
Gradually Grandma got worse, and was told that she was going to die because they could not do surgery again. Grandma, in a room with all of us there, was asked if she wanted the feeding tube removed, meaning she would die a terrible death of starvation, or did she want diluted food, which would give her some hydration..Grandma cried and said I do NOT wnat to starve to death, I want diluted food. It took 3 days for that order to be signed by her phyician, and during that time her son and his wife who are JW were LIVID that her feeding tube was not removed..
My husband and I and a family member soon realized they were trying everything in thier power to have it completely removed, which is NOT what grandma wanted. I will also tell you that grandma made her lawyer power of attorney and medical power of attorney, and I think she did it because of what her son belives.. We spent 3 days garding grandma last week to make sure they could not have her feeding tube pulled, and we stayed there until the food order was placed. They had no time alone with grandma, to either take it or make grandma change her mind.. Everyday Grandma would ask if she was still connected to the diluted food..
After the food order came that day, we were so happy..Then while our backs were turned the son and his wife totally convince grandma that the cost is eating up all her money, and she's broke and now all these bills wont get paid, which they knew was totally not true..Grandma can live there for 6 more months paying 100% just with what she has in her checking and savings..But these ppl were determined, not to get grandmas money, BUT to save grandma's soul..they feel if she's hooked up to a feeding tube when she passes, she will not be reserected from the dead when the second coming of Christ comes.. The next morning grandma says to disconnect her.. and they did..she was on diluted food thru a feeding tube for 5 days, and now she has lived 7 more days with NO food or water..I am only home now to check my e-mails and get a couple hours of sleep, and thats when I scanned this site to see whats new and saw the post about JW.. We have watched grandma beg for water, and dry up like a raisin..do you know what happens physically to the body when you starve a person to death?? Her bowels started twisting two days ago, and the rest of her organs have followed, and the last will be her brain..we got the call two days ago, tomorrow being the 3rd day, to come quickly she is near death..and yet she is still alive, struggling every second, asking the nurses to kill her..Her hands are black, her feet are turning black, her tongue is hard and cracking..she is hot like fire on the inside, but when you touch her she feels like the inside of a freezer..
since her son and his wife convinced her to pulling the feeding tube, we havent seen much of them there, they dont want to witness the horror..As far as JW facts, and our experience, JW is a cult!

reply to post by MissysWorld


Wow, I don't even know what to say. That actually strikes me as the opposite point of view I would have expected from a JW, but to defy your grandma's wishes like that is just wrong. I hope the best for you and your grandma, for what it's worth.

To the OP, how about this...TALK to your brother. Don't rely on what you find on the net because a lot of it is lies. As for what some of the people here have said of first hand experiences about JW's, just remember that you're getting one side of the story. JW's are regular people that are searching for the truth. And people do make mistakes in life. Don't condemn the whole religion because of the imperfect people that make it up. Talk to your brother. Read some of the literature and maybe even go to the Kingdom Hall and find out from them what they believe.

Your brother is free to make up his own mind. They aren't forcing him to believe what he believes. It's his choice.

As for the JW's themselves, they are some of the better people walking the earth. But people who aren't JW's do not understand them and make little honest effort to do so.