Are “chemical imbalances” an excuse for mind control?

Originally posted by captainplanet
But antibiotics in no way alter your state of mind, so that statement is more comparable to vitamins or something. But they can weaken your immune system if you took them frequently. People take most anti-depressants at least daily for sometimes years, no? The people I know did/do. Extended use will limit your ability to function without it, that’s an addiction to a mind altering substance, not the same as sleeping pills incase you wanted to go there. The key difference is mind altering, we should be society altering, not promoting drugs as a good solution.

Anti-depressants are not "addictive". You have to back off them slowly to give your body time to adjust to not taking them, but as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence to suggest that once you start taking them your mind is forever altered.

Originally posted by captainplanet
Sounds exactly like a pot head argument(not calling you a pot head). The mismanagement of both drugs goes very far to impede society and continually generate corrupt income.

People take various drugs, whether they're illicit or prescribed, because they want or need them. Since anti-depressants, when taking appropriately, do not provide any sort of "high" or other benefit aside from getting your life back together, I don't see them anywhere within the same league. Now, if you're taking pain killers, drugs like valium, etc., to make yourself feel good (and you have no medical reason to have them), that would be different.

Originally posted by captainplanet
I don’t agree with that, no. Pain medications are not intended to be a long term, mind altering thing even though they can be. Anti-depressants are.

Anti-depressants aren't meant to be used forever. But in some cases, that's all they can do to give the person a normal life (from the standpoint of the patient, not the doctor).

Originally posted by captainplanet
The result is the same, when you become used to it, not having it makes you more dysfunctional than you started.

This is fallacious, and isn't based on any scientific reasoning.

Originally posted by captainplanet
No, they should find out why so many children are suicidal and work to revise our social dogma. Suicide is never a “natural feeling”, the person knows why they hate life whether they express that feeling to the inquiring mind or not. We should be a more open and receptive society. Depressed people often just lack good understanding of things due to societal reinforcement of bad logic.

Spoken as somebody who hasn't dealt with depression, I'd imagine.

Originally posted by captainplanet
Maybe you could better elaborate that difference? All mind altering drugs are chemical and could be argued similarly if doctors prescribed them and society promoted them. Regardless of intent, I’ve seen people without their pills and people without their drugs or drink and they all act more or less the same: “sorry, i just need my medicine.” They need something to change, whether they are conscious of that or not.

If you haven't been depressed, and you haven't had to take medication to help, you won't understand. You don't feel high or euphoric, you're simply able to function without being in a mental rut from which you can't see over the edge.

Originally posted by captainplanet
I wont argue that it does help some people artificially cope, but that is a indirect and incomplete solution. It just trades physiological “problems”.

Again, fallacious. Now, I think anti-depressants should be part of a treatment that also includes psychotherapy, possibly neurofeedback, etc. They are not a solution, but merely a transitory, temporary treatment. But I also realize that this won't be the case for some people.

Originally posted by BlueBottle
Well unfortunately that 'potential for abuse' has already been massively exploited by the higher powers for setting the goal of getting nearly every person on some form of dangerous medication. Lowering their intelligence, getting them addicted, destroying their lives.

Why would there be a goal of getting "nearly every person on some form of dangerous medication?" Since nobody is forced to take medication, this would mean that people actively seek it to treat various problems. I don't know about you, but my doctor doesn't needlessly suggest medication.

Originally posted by captainplanet
Every year the APA (American Psychiatric Association) holds a mass gathering and they literally MAKE UP new 'disorders', 'illnesses' and general mental problems in order to sell drugs and make money.

Based on new scientific and medical evidence, they revise their classifications of disorders, sometimes removing them, sometimes adding them, so that the information all mental health professionals work with is the most up-to-date. It's not a secret because it isn't meant to be one, nor is it unreasonable.

Many years ago I would have agreed that taking a pill and counseling was the way to go. I am diagnosed as Bipolar 1 and up until a month ago was on a huge cocktail of medicine. Since losing my job I could not afford it any longer and have went through the frightening, terrible withdraws from these toxic magic PILLS.

A few years ago I remember a huge issue with Tom Cruise coming out and saying we don't' need this medicine its all in our heads. I was furious, now that I'm off everything... I am seriously taking a different approach.

On medication I was a lazy, couch potato that basically let my life slide by without giving a crap. Now that I'm off I'm upbeat again and active. I gained over a hundred pounds on medication and basically did what I was told to do. I was a robot and yes the medications are mind controlling, that is the whole purpose, to stop highs and lows and keep you on a stream line. basically just a blob in society.

I have learned through out my battles with suicide, major depression, extreme mania etc that positive thinking and keeping positive influences in your life is the only way to survive. I will never put another pill in my body. Times are very hard for humans nowadays but with positive thinking, self discipline and natural remedies we can overcome hard times without the use of mind altering medications.

The toxins the doctors put in our bodies are just another form of mind control, so we are kept in control and not paying attention to what is really going on in the world. I know there are extreme cases and I'm not saying no one should ever be medicated. I'm saying there are many other alternatives out there, instead of pumping our bodies full of medications to basically keep us in a haze.

I feel I have wasted so many years of my life in a haze, I am now 37yrs old and I am just now beginning a whole new life.

reply to post by tgidkp


Your argument is based on false information. It has been estimated that people only had to work about 3 hours per day in the past, when we lived in tribes, hunted and grew our own food. In those days, we had strong tribal ties to each otehr, lived and worked outdoors where it was healthy and had a deep spirituality that was connected to Nature.
Presently, most people live in isolation, not tribes, we work at least 8 hours a day, then come home and care for our young, who are missing out on having parents 8 hours a day, etc.
So, no we don't have more time than at any other period in history. Your accusation that depressed people are depressed because they have too much time on their hands, is not only wrong, but very judgmental, untrue, and well, a pretty arrogant position.

Originally posted by tgidkp
...it is more readily identified today simply because in the past, people didnt have time enough in their day to consider such a self-indulgent condition as depression.

Self-indulgent??? That sentence is just plain cruel. You think I WANT to have depression? How dare you, sir? Where do you get off telling people that if they have the mental illness of depression, that it's because they're SELF-INDULGENT? That is so judgmental and misinformed.
People get depressed because of chemical imbalances or trauma.

I take thyroid supplement because I have low thyroid and it corrects that imbalance. I take an anti-depressant because my serotonin levels are low and the pill corrects that. It doesn't mask anything, it doesn't make me feel high, it makes me feel NORMAL.
Would you tell a person who is dying from cancer that they are merely self-indulgent. I didn't ask for this illness and I can assure you, it was a nightmarish hell for 15 years before I went on the meds and got myself straightened out. I couldn't get out of bed on many days, because I had no energy. Low energy is a physical symptom of depression, as is having trouble sleeping. Put those 2 together and it becomes very difficult to get anything done in one's life or to think straight. It's an illness not an indulgence. Those meds keep me from killing myself.
I didn't ask to have this condition, you judgmental so-and-so, keep your toxic, untrue self-indulgent opinions to yourself and quit insulting people who are unfortunate.

i'm on anti-depressants and they're fantastic! paxil has made me normal again. before paxil i would have panic attacks and spend most of my day worrying about having another one and pondering other negative thoughts.

i'm personally offended that some of you see these drugs as a bad thing. i feel as though you'd prefer to see me curled up in a dark room with worried thoughts racing in my mind day after day. because that's who i would be if it were not for these drugs.

paxil allows me to continue a normal, productive life. i had tried other methods to overcome my anxiety disorder, but nothing worked. two weeks of paxil through my system solved the problem.

so what's the problem with that?

Feeling "normal", does anyone really know what that is.

I was told by a doctor a year ago that i was bi-polar with a chemical imbalance that should be treatable with medication. I'm now off the meds but let me give you a run down of what its like.

Here's what a doctors schooling does from what i've seen.. ( i went to 3 different doctors for this depression issue)

Do you ever get depressed?

"yes"

Do you ever feel overly happy or talk fast?

"sure sometimes."

Ever go without sleep for a day or more?

"once in a great while, but it's mostly depression i'm fighting."

Ever see things that aren't there?

"nope"

Well as your doctor i say your bi-polar and need to get on medication immediately..
here's lithium, zyprexa, and depacote. after a week, well have your blood level checked to see where your at dosage wise.

After a couple weeks i asked him how he determining how much medication i should be on. as my wife doesn't support me being on medication (were divorced now by the way for other reasons, that i didnt even care about at the time thank you super meds!). He said he does his diagnosis based on lithium level in the blood.. fine.. but he said i was still acting "manic" so her prescribed another medication lamactil...



I dumped the meds and just use a sleepig pill once in awhile when i need it. I keep telling myself that everyone is struggling just as much as i am... i have more empathy for people, and get along with people in a differnt way than i did before... i still get sad, but now i read, i've developed better realationships with people, and i even started working out. For the last couple months things are ok.

Odd thing is dumping all those meds cold turkey... i didn't have a major crash

If someone really wants to kill themselves, why do we fight against them? Isnt mind control forcing actions and thoughts on someone against there will?

I think people like myself are depressed because we think to deeply about subjects that have no real answers. Or the answers are not what we want and our mortal brains cant deal with it.

For example Death. If theres no god or afterlife... our entire life is worthless... now have those thoughts run through your head for a couple days with no sleep.

Pills can help, but they should be used for small amount of time. this long term dependence is a business model for a drug company. Everything passes you need to have an actual goal in life to work towards to find happiness. to many pills dumb you down and you wont accomplish anything. which in turn makes you more depressed and makes the drug companies increase your dosage... the only one who wins is the drug company.. they sell you a anti-depressent, they get the money, and their the only ones who are happy in the end.

reply to post by forestlady


i had not expected such a violent response. my apologies to those of the truly inflicted...

...i am not speaking about a subject that i know nothing about...but unfortunately, i cannot gather myself for a proper response right now...

happy thanksgiving.

reply to post by bizone


Be careful on those pharms, there's natural means around your 'condition' instead of giving big pharm companies your money, even health insurance-covered money, for this:

In Toxic Psychiatry, Peter R. Breggin, M.D. exposes the hype and false promises surrounding psychiatry, and shows how dangerous and brain-damaging psychiatric drugs are. He demonstrates that: psychiatric drugs such as ssri's, prozac, paxil, zoloft, luvox, effexor, serzone, anafranil, fenfluramine, fen-phen and redux are spreading an epidemic of long-term, permanent brain damage; that mental illnesses have actually never been proven to be genetic or even physical in origin, and that millions of Americans are being incorrectly labeled with medical diagnosis and treated with mind altering drugs, rather than being patiently listened to, understood, and helped.

"Although initially increasing concentration and energy, patients [on drugs such as prozac, paxil, zoloft, luvox, effexor, serzone, anafranil & the diet pills - fenfluramine, fen-phen & redux] report long-term effects of impaired memory and concentration and mental disability. Learn the reasons why large numbers of Prozac patients report FALSE memories of ABUSE. As disruption of serotonin alters perception, reality and dreams SEEM one and the same, creating a STRONGER hypersuggestable state than hypnotism."

""Brain wave patterns indicate patients, taking said drugs, are in a total anesthetic sleep state while appearing awake and functioning. Increasing serotonin - exactly what these drugs are designed to do - induces both nightmares and sleepwalk. Patients report over and over again that they have lived out their worst nightmare.

And as with sleepwalk episodes, many have no recall or little recall of what they have done. Often someone must prove to them what they have done while they where under the influence of these drugs before they will believe it to be true. One patient stated that he could not detect during his two year use of Prozac what was real or what was a dream."

Elevated levels of serotonin (5HT) - exactly the chemical these [SSRI] drugs do increase - is the same chemical that '___', PCP and other psychedelic drugs mimic in order to produce their hallucinogenic effects. Have these drugs turned the 90's upside down for us to relive the 60's? Learn that elevated levels of serotonin are found in schizophrenia, mood disorders, organic brain disease, Alzheimer's, anorexia, autism, bronchial constriction, etc."

www.oralchelation.net...

Also, I think we have a suspect (these drugs) for some of the 'abductee' cases should you read this excerpt.

Originally posted by tgidkp
people didnt have time enough in their day to consider such a self-indulgent condition as depression.

As someone who has struggled with depression over the past 15 or so years, I find your words there repugnant, ignorant, pathetic and disgusting.

As such, Im sticking you in ignore, before I lose my temper and get warnings for waht I want to reply to you with.

Originally posted by shoran
Anti-depressants are not intended to make you happy, euphoric, or high. They're meant to provide a balance to excessive depression so that you're able to live.

In fact they do the opposite for me. A complete lack of happiness, but not the darkness that had engufled my every thought. The overwhelming feeling of hopelessness over nothing, every second of the day.

People think that if someone is depressed and they take AD's they become "un-depressed" when the reality of it is, instead of being pushed further down into a living hell, you are pushed sideways. It's not meant as a means to make you stop and smell the roses..

This thread is entirely ignorant, and you shoran are the only one who seems to actually understand, and for that I commend you !

I was prescribed zoloft mid 2004. By Christmas 2004, I had lost my job of 7 years, my friends, everyone I considered close to me, all because of the god damned delusional psychosis that crap put me thru.

Meh, but the doctors refuse to accept their precious zoloft had anything to do with it.

Many years ago, when I first started on AD's it was as if a cloud had been lifted and I suddenly thought "Holy crap, how could I have felt so wrong for so long and not realised it?!" and thought that was it. But within a year I was feeling those thoughts and emotions creeping back and decided to see the doctor once more, because the medicine actually did clear my mind up for a while.

Sadly, since then it's just been a rollercoaster, and Im so sorry to have such a self-indulgent lifestyle that others here must be so damned envious of. I'd swap with their miserable hard-coping lives at the drop of a hat.

I've not taken any AD's in over a year now, simply because I'm sick of the emptiness..

I don't care that I've got SFA in life to be honest. I do care that I've lost the friendships I cared a hell of a lot for, but I guess it was worth it since I obviosuly choose to be depressed instead of embracing some faery garbage or go hug a tree.

Mind control and medications.

Sounds as if you've been reading my casefile.

Of the masses of doctors I have visited over the years to help "stabilize" me on medications for my "condition" I will only allow for three of them who actually talked to me as a PERSON.

The rest of the time, they look down at my diagnosis and I am little more to them than a textbook agenda.

This is one reason I quit persuing my degree for the past decade - if you think the doctors are mind-numbing, you should try sitting through all the required classes one has to take in order to gain a doctorate.

The emphasis on little things - like proper nutrition, fulfilling lifestyle and adequate social networking (social support) are rarely even mentioned or inquired about. The run down is more direct and straight to the point - "you have a chemical imbalance".

Ah yes - so much simpler than spending time and resources on therapy to help an individual adjust to the unforseen and sometimes completely natural reasons for depression.

"Chemical Imbalance" makes my teeth grind.

I don't see how it's possible to know it's all brain chemistry when no tests other than a simple Q&A are required to make a diagnosis.

That's like taking a car to a mechanic who tells you whats wrong just by looking at the little "Ford" logo on the hood on the car.

reply to post by badw0lf


Badwolf, AD's do different things for different people. But you're right, they do not make anyone euphoric, just halt the progression of depression. Nor do they "mask" anything.
However, I must disagree with you that Shoran is the only one who knows anything on this thread about depression. I feel that I have a pretty good grasp of what it is, please see my post above. I have lived with depression for most of my life, (I'm 53) and have studied everything I could about it. As a psychotherapist, I worked extensively with depressives for 15 years as well.
It's not normal to have depression; depression is not just feeling sorry for yourself. It is an inabililty to experience any happy feelings and in more extreme cases, it is an inability to feel anything good, while feeling miserable and suicidal most of the time.

if paxil works for me, then why should i not be taking it?

reply to post by bizone


If your perscription medication ease the onset and duration of your symptoms, or if they are abolished completely, I don't see a problem.

I'm just ranting over the fact that I've been on just about everything on the market and they still haven't found the "right mixture".

I hold that not everyone given this "chemical imbalance" diagnosis is actually suffering from such.

Originally posted by forestlady
However, I must disagree with you that Shoran is the only one who knows anything on this thread about depression. I feel that I have a pretty good grasp of what it is, please see my post above. I have lived with depression for most of my life, (I'm 53) and have studied everything I could about it. As a psychotherapist, I worked extensively with depressives for 15 years as well.
It's not normal to have depression; depression is not just feeling sorry for yourself. It is an inabililty to experience any happy feelings and in more extreme cases, it is an inability to feel anything good, while feeling miserable and suicidal most of the time.

I had posted at a point where he was the only one I'd read posting against a torrent of a seeming barrage of ignorance - I did see later on that there were others who did understand.. but I felt my outburst was enough and left it at that..

I did see your post. And I do agree with you.

I should have done what is best (as usual) and perused the entire thread before posting - but some statements made just really got me.. In this day and age, how some people can still espouse such nonsense.. gah.. I wont go there again..

You last words here are so accurate they needs to be remembered by anyone who has dealt with or deals with someone suffering depression.

Cheers !

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
reply to post by bizone

 

If your perscription medication ease the onset and duration of your symptoms, or if they are abolished completely, I don't see a problem.

I'm just ranting over the fact that I've been on just about everything on the market and they still haven't found the "right mixture".

I hold that not everyone given this "chemical imbalance" diagnosis is actually suffering from such.

Everyone's brains work differently - back in the day they used to use electricity to shock people back into 'reality'.

Worked for some, not so much for others.

Some people don't like tomatoes, or bread. Some crave it. We're all wired so uniquely that changing one part of our brain may either produce positive effects, or adversely cause severe detrimental outcomes.

I'm one of the latter these days. However, experiencing satisfactory results with natural herbs, I've discovered that enthiobotanical outcomes are far less stressful and far more effective for me. All I hope is that the govt. doesn't outlaw yet more natural plants because I'm not succumbing to the bastards and taking their poisons.

If I ever want to sit in my chair on a sunday morning for 4 hours staring at a wall, with my eyes wide open, clenching my jaw, while a humming static buzz engulfs me, and as thoughts of hate and apathy fill me every cell combined with horrible delusions, I'll go back to zoloft.

And those were good days.. 8[

If I want to have blissful sleep and wake up early, full of desire and feeling completely sober and hopeful, I'll stick to my dreaming herbs.

reply to post by badw0lf


I couldn't agree more. Everyone of us has different biochemistry, different triggers for pleasurable and displeasureable associations and so forth.

Glad to see you've found an alternative. Hopefuly others who cannot find their salvations through medications will find their "happy places" in other avenues.

Cheers.

reply to post by badw0lf


THanks BadWolf, no problem. BTW, I love your avatar!

Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by forestlady

 

...i am not speaking about a subject that i know nothing about...but unfortunately, i cannot gather myself for a proper response right now...

tgidkp: I think you believe that you know more about depression than you actually do. Just by the statements you've made so far, I can tell that you know very little about depression and understand even less. Your stance is so judgmental that I think your biases are affecting your outlook.

There are many different types of depression, what works for one may not work for another. But it doesn't mean that meds are evil, nor are they mind control. In order for mind control to take place, someone needs to be in control of your mind - so in these cases, who would that be? There's no one giving instructions to depressed people on meds.
These are not drugs that can be used for recreational purposes; if they were, there would be a sizable amount of the population getting hooked on them, even though they're not addictive.
I'm no fan of the big pharma companies, but I also acknowledge that these AD meds actually work and make my life livable. Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle between these 2 points of view.