Are “chemical imbalances” an excuse for mind control?

I’m not a doctor and I don’t go to them unless I break something or need antibiotics. Not saying that’s how it should be, just stating my ignorance on current medical dogma. So if you're a doctor, please chime in and tell me why I'm wrong.

I’ve known many people who suffer from chronic depression, both medicated and not. The medicated ones seem to lose valuable skills in judgment whereas the un medicated ones feel defeated or powerless.

Isn’t depression just an overwhelming and uncontrollable desire for something to change? Your state of mind can change things in you body, how else would you explain faith healers and the placebo effect? So why do we assume our bodies are wrong and not our environment or situation? Is there proof that people are born this way? Are there babies born, diagnosed with, and medicated for depression?

Whenever I hear about “chemical imbalances” creating depression or other illnesses , I can’t help but think that the chemical imbalance is a result of the depression, which is a result of a problem that your subconcious knows needs adressing. I think a lot of people are depressed about a variety of real problems and we feed them drugs so they will be complacent and not try to fix them.

Like, “you think something is wrong with society and it makes you depressed? Nonsense, take this pill and fit in.”

Is this idea wrong? Can it be that some people just want seemingly impossible things and instead of trying to make them happen and/or coming to terms with the fact that they are wrong, they are given drugs under the assumption their must be something wrong with them if they disagree with society?

and by mind control, i mean complacency in the face of whatever their problem might be.

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[edit on 21-11-2007 by captainplanet]

To my knowledge, nobody has ever said that the chemical imbalances are the be all, end all cause of depression. They're a symptom of depression, and one that can be managed to provide for a better quality of life for the patient.



I think it's absolutely wrong. People aren't depressed because they want to be, nor are they depressed because they want something they can't have. There's a difference between being sad and being depressed. Emotional ups and downs are a part of life, but a persistent negative outlook on everything that impacts your life, your family, etc., greatly reduces your quality of life.

While the medication can help to relieve the symptoms, it really shouldn't be used as the only course of treatment. It can help a depressed person to better deal with issues and make sure things in their life are in order, but usually should be coupled with psychotherapy to work from both sides of the problem toward a solution. If you can treat the physical and the mental, your chances of success in eliminating depression are much greater.

As far as medicated people losing their judgment and un-medicated people feeling powerless, I'd say those are overly broad generalizations. But, most anti-depressants and related medications have the power to alter moods (isn't that the point?), and it's entirely possible that people will behave differently once the medication has taken sufficient effect. Whether or not the behavior is bad, though, depends on the person.

If an "authority" is given the power to decide what constitutes a chemical imbalance, that opens up a huge door for the potential of abuse.

I mean this in legal terms. Not health professional.

A law should not be judged by its intention, but by how awful it would be if it were abused.


Imagine if the government hired doctors whose definition of insanity was holding a belief that government routinely lied to its people.

Imagine if that government made it law that you must report to a health facility for "treatment".

Coming out of treatment, you were medicated on drugs which dull your mind, make you weak or sick, and give you a neuro-chemical mix in the brain making you passive and accepting.


What would you think of that? You might say "yeah, but they would never do that."


Don't mistake your moral character for everyone's. Serial killers exist. Rapists exist. We know this to be true.


So why is it so hard to believe that diabolically evil men might exist in government?

[edit on 21-11-2007 by dionysius9]

Umm, just who exactly is supposed to determine what constitutes a chemical imbalance? I'd imagine the people most qualified to do that are the ones who are an "authority" on the subject; namely, doctors.

If you feel that you're depressed, go talk to a mental health counselor about it. Since they're not doctors, their first thought will likely be to use their knowledge about mental health and depression to assess your condition. They may recommend or refer you to your general practitioner or a psychiatrist if they feel medication is an option, but, ultimately whether you pursue that course of action is completely up to you.

to me, it has been a "sign of the times" that there is such a sweeping epidemic of depression in the united states. the unique mix of democracy and capitalism that the US was founded upon, and has since spread to other nations, has allowed basic human narcissism to crash into the brick wall of materialism. in other words: when a person is given the opportunity to have "whatever he wants", he will most likely destroy himself.

facing up to your own self-destruction is a bleak task. more and more people in our society are waking up to the reality that seeking after material wealth is a fruitless task. we are left wondering, "there has GOT to be more than this".

and yet, all other roads to personal fulfillment remain un-validated. if you believe in Jesus, yoga, extra-terrestrials, or anything else transcendental, you will assume the label of "kook". there seems to be no answers for those in life whom are seeking after real meaning.

and when you have finally given up your search for this elusive "real meaning", they have a pill that you can take. it will allow you to re-assume your march toward the inevitability of death, without the existential terror that should accompany such inevitability.

>>>>>>>

the sad thing is that instead of heeding the deep yearnings of the universe and honoring the remarkable position that we have found ourselves in as human souls, it seems that most people would rather go down quietly.

"chemical imbalance", indeed.

I think my opinion is a bit different on this point. I don't think that having whatever we want is what's bad, I think having to struggle for survival as we try to realize a nearly impossible dream (of becoming wealthy) is what gets people down. When the world is full of so much strife, I think it tends to make things difficult to handle.



I don't think people are viewed as kooks for being interested in the aforementioned things. I do, however, think people are labeled as kooks when they start rambling on about all these unreasonable, unprovable "truths" for which there is no evidence. That tends to get the strange looks. If you really believe a lot of the fanciful stuff without any evidence whatsoever, it's probably best to just keep it to yourself.



I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. The fact that more people are depressed now than in previous years is probably due to one of two things: 1) People have more to worry about nowadays than they did in the past, or 2) depression is more readily identified and treated nowadays than it was in the past. Anyone who believes that anti-depressants are some magic pill akin to "soma" in Brave New World is sorely mistaken.



I think this probably accurately illustrates your view of depression. Perhaps you've not experienced it to the point where you've needed medication? I don't know your personal history, but, I'd say that last statement shows your bias.

I thought i posted, its not here so if i double post a apolagize.


Technically any prescription drug that corrects a chemical imbalance is mind control, hence why i myself would never take them. However, its mind control in a benevolent way, well somewhat its mindcontrol to sell pills, but many of these peopl truly enjoy life better on them, even though it creates a false reality. Are you more getting at are people going to use chemical imbalances as an excuse to distribute mind control substances.

Did you know LSD was orginally develouped by the US Gov. as a mind control substance. They scrapped it when patients began to see pink elephants and they were not aware they were on a drug and tended to go insane. No lie.

I think you're right here.
They tried the "chemical imbalance" stuff with me a few years back, when I was feeling a little bit down. They told me it may take a few months to "correct" the imbalance with their pills.
I replied that if the situation which produced these feelings disappeared instantly, the "chemical imbalance" would instantly rectify itself.

This is how I know they lie.

Feelings are real and happen for real reasons, IMHO.

Gah, mind control? False reality? Please. It's no more "mind control" than eating a lot of chocolate or carbohydrates that boosts your seratonin levels is mind control. As far as false reality goes, I don't know what drugs you've been taking.

If you don't mind me asking, who is "they", and why were you talking to "them" about being down if you already knew what the problem was?

As far as feelings being real and happening for a reason, our bodies have problems all the time that we correct with various substances. If you aren't getting enough of a necessary nutrient, your body may being to malfunction. The list is probably just about endless of things that can go wrong, and in a lot of cases, there's no known reason for why they're going wrong. Rather than dismiss depression as a "natural" feeling, especially in cases where it ends up leading to suicide, why don't we offer medically-sound, scientific treatment to those people to help them with their quality of life?

Really, I think you people are grossly misinformed about depression and the process one should go through to treat it.

reply to post by shoran

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oh, but it IS about "having whatever we want". it does not take long down the road of materialism to discover that your personal desires will NEVER be fulfilled, and you must search elsewhere.

you have illustrated my point nicely when you state that unprovable truths are best kept to ones-self. truly, a person suffering from depression has no where to turn....it all must be kept inside. gee, you must be a terrific friend.

i have considered both of your reasons for the increased prevalence of depression. first, there is no reason to believe that we have more to worry about than our forebears. we do not grapple directly with the threat of death on a daily basis as they did. and second, it is more readily identified today simply because in the past, people didnt have time enough in their day to consider such a self-indulgent condition as depression. i have a reason that i would like you to consider:

never before in the course of human history has the general populace had such an excess of "free time". and what better way to spend our spare time than with interests of the self. but what happens when one looks down into that deep, empty pit of one's existence? with no answers to the questions of "who am i?" and "why am i here?", the mind staggers.

and the only answers that are supported by larger society are "science", "consumerism", and pills. in other words, materialism.

the only true escape from depression is the realisation that there is something more, something that transcends such materialism. it is this realisation that is the intent behind the whole of human conciousness evolution since the beginning....and those people whom are depressed are at its very cusp.

it is also this exact belief that the pills they will give you are intended to kill.

these pills are perhaps the most insidious type of manipulation ever created.

reply to post by shoran

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Well that’s good to hear. So why do we fix it indirectly? You could argue some illegal drugs and alcohol can provide a “happier“ attitude, that doesn’t make it better. Isn’t numbing the result of a problem instead of helping people truly over come it kind of like street drug dealing?



I think you misunderstood me. I understand depression, I just think artificially masking it with drugs to be tactically flawed and hypocritical on the part of the government to allow it. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s a billion dollar industry either. As is the war on drugs(I’m not promoting drugs, just making points)



Isn’t it wrong for parents to put depressed teenagers on these though? Shouldn’t they be given a chance to heal themselves? Wont the artificial up impede their progress in attaining a natural up? Like you implied, depression is a combination of problems. Isn’t prescribing hormonal kids mind altering drugs, kind of like prescribing a kid who’s stressed out a pack of cigarettes so he can focus on his homework? Even if he says he needs it, it is an irresponsible fix.

We took Joe Camel off the air but we have cartoons of depressed pills on TV when we are well aware of the ups and downs and human weakness. Isn’t “bi-polar” just a severe up and down? It’s a part of life, they shouldn’t be made to be on an unnatural constant just to fit in. If someone sees the commercial and goes for the prescription, aren’t they essentially giving up on being themselves? Isn’t that why illegal drugs and alcohol are so frowned upon? It’s conveniently hypocritical.



They are broad generalizations based on my personal observations of the consistent behaviors among people I know.



Why should people be made to act differently instead of have a place of acceptance in their free country?

The point is more that it is a tactically flawed, hypocritical, and unnecessary solution. I think it detours people from addressing real problems and if everyone addressed their problems, our world would be dramatically different. I don’t think the people benefiting from the pharmaceutical business don’t realize this. Some people would make a lot less money and politicians would have a lot more well adjusted and informed people to deal with if they made a strong effort to cut this epidemic at the head. You can’t altogether stop depression and other mental illnesses but there are way too many people using medication to do it. It’s unhealthy, this kind of solution is damaging in a democracy, you need strong people, not medicated ones for a working republic. I’m not saying medicated people are weak, just mislead and from experience, fragilely complacent.



That’s a good point, people who don’t gage success on wealth are pushed to medicate. That is not liberty. Isn’t it obvious why the powers that be might want this? “Go to work, pay your taxes, give us money, get in line. Jimmy has a BMW.” Not everyone cares about Jimmy’s BMW and they shouldn‘t be made too, that creates an artificial reality.



I hope that makes more sense for you.

reply to post by tgidkp

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I do think there's a tremendous focus on trying to attain things that we'll never be able to attain, but I don't think this is the cause of depression.

As far as an "unprovable truth", I don't think that this means you can't talk to people about things that are bothering you. But, if you go up to random people and profess these "truths" and implore that they agree with you and believe too, yet you have no evidence to support your claims ... well, how do you think those people should be regarded? Or do you simply believe everything everyone tells you, never questioning anything, because it *might* be true?



Wow, that's pretty low. You know, I think it's one thing to handle daily survival in terms of hunting for food, providing shelter for your family, etc., but it's another thing entirely to have to meet the same end result while having little to no control over the events surrounding your existence. And people are depressed because they have too much time on their hands? Please.



Perhaps for you. That's not the case for me. However, I rely on things I'm able to understand and comprehend, and merely philosophize about the things I don't. But, to say that people take medicine because of science, consumerism, and materialism? Yeah, whatever.



I don't know what experience you've had with depression and the medication to aid in treatment of it, but apparently if you've had such an experience, you didn't do so well with it. Perhaps you'd do well to understand that just because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. Nobody forces you to seek treatment for depression, nor to take medication for it.

Of course, you can go on thinking that medications meant to help people are "insidious", "manipulative", or heck ... why not go so far as to label them as "evil"? It's my opinion that you're mistaken.

Not at all. That's like saying that antibiotics are wrong because they provide an artificial means to help the body fight infection. People who are depressed may or may not be able to deal with their depression (much less their life) without medication. It depends on the person, but in many ways, the medication helps them to consider things reasonably and work through problems. Sometimes it's required, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the cause of the problem isn't ever found, so people stay on medication so they can function. I don't see anything wrong with this, though it does illustrate that our medical and psychological sciences are not perfect.



Do you think it's wrong to offer pain medication to people who are in pain? Or, should they be required to feel the pain because it's natural, even if it's debilitating and makes it impossible for them to function?

Anti-depressants are not intended to make you happy, euphoric, or high. They're meant to provide a balance to excessive depression so that you're able to live.



I'd say that's between a parent, their child, and their doctor(s). If the child is suicidal, should the parent simply let them kill themselves because it's their "natural" feeling?

Again, anti-depressants are not intended to make people high. They're intended to make people not depressed. There's a difference.



You can't get the prescription without talking to your doctor. If your doctor is prescribing you medication you don't need because you saw a TV commercial, that's a separate problem. That doesn't mean the medication isn't effective at treating what it was designed to treat, and it doesn't mean that everyone taking said medication can live just fine without it.

Really, you say you understand depression, but it doesn't appear you've had much experience with it (at least from a pharma standpoint). You keep alluding to people being "made" to take these drugs, but nobody is "made" to take them. You take them because it's determined to be the best course of action for your condition. If you're a hypochondriac who gets off on taking drugs, and you have a doctor who enables you, that's a different issue.

reply to post by shoran

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But antibiotics in no way alter your state of mind, so that statement is more comparable to vitamins or something. But they can weaken your immune system if you took them frequently. People take most anti-depressants at least daily for sometimes years, no? The people I know did/do. Extended use will limit your ability to function without it, that’s an addiction to a mind altering substance, not the same as sleeping pills incase you wanted to go there. The key difference is mind altering, we should be society altering, not promoting drugs as a good solution.



Sounds exactly like a pot head argument(not calling you a pot head). The mismanagement of both drugs goes very far to impede society and continually generate corrupt income.



I don’t agree with that, no. Pain medications are not intended to be a long term, mind altering thing even though they can be. Anti-depressants are.



The result is the same, when you become used to it, not having it makes you more dysfunctional than you started.



No, they should find out why so many children are suicidal and work to revise our social dogma. Suicide is never a “natural feeling”, the person knows why they hate life whether they express that feeling to the inquiring mind or not. We should be a more open and receptive society. Depressed people often just lack good understanding of things due to societal reinforcement of bad logic.



Maybe you could better elaborate that difference? All mind altering drugs are chemical and could be argued similarly if doctors prescribed them and society promoted them. Regardless of intent, I’ve seen people without their pills and people without their drugs or drink and they all act more or less the same: “sorry, i just need my medicine.” They need something to change, whether they are conscious of that or not.



I wont argue that it does help some people artificially cope, but that is a indirect and incomplete solution. It just trades physiological “problems”. The real, logical problems need addressing, not the symptoms. We’ve learned you can’t just paint rusty bridges(the rusty bridge being society), they will fall. We need to reinforce them from time to time. Pills just paint over problems, leaving them for the next person of that mindset.



I admitted in the beginning I have little medical knowledge, sorry. I don’t mean to say they are forced down peoples throats, they are just imposed into their way of thinking as to be the best course of action by a trusted doctor or a commercial or a stressed and busy parent. Really, by a stressed and busy society.

The problem is not so damaging to the individual as it is to the foundation of our society. I think that’s why suicides and depression are on the rise, because we’ve stopped adapting society to changes in human nature. Or maybe we made changes in the wrong way and need to step back.

My point is by just giving people medication so they can get along, we are avoiding potential real problems that should be addressed. We should not be satisfied with the high amount of people on medication, there should be a formal goal to find out what the real problem is and manage pharmaceuticals like they are more serious.

When i turned 18 i did some naughty things to my body, did these naughty things for a few years, stoped doing the naughty things, and then i find my brain isn't thinking the same as it used to. Extremely anxious, depressed due to that and other things, very very anti- social.

I've started taking a tablet that is Anti-Depressant / anti-anxiety tablet.

I'm getting my life back. I am getting very social. I am getting my life back on track. So yes, I believe it was a chemical imbalance, and no i dont think its mind control. And yes i do feel that when i take them i can lose concentration at work more than any other time.

reply to post by DaRAGE

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The worse thing is though, a lot of these pharms are toxic in their nature and haven't been fully tested on humans -- plus, we need to remember that mice and men share many of the same genes -- so, what's poisonous to them . . .

. . . this book is a good look at this debate. I recommend it for anyone taking pharms, plus -- those industries are making millions off sickening people in the long-term, they're usually cancer-causing drugs that people always need a sedative or 'anti-anxiety' counterpart to take -- it's not worth the trauma to the body / mind.


Toxic Psychiatry: Why Therapy, Empathy and Love Must Replace the Drugs, Electroshock, and Biochemical Theories of the "New Psychiatry"

Well unfortunately that 'potential for abuse' has already been massively exploited by the higher powers for setting the goal of getting nearly every person on some form of dangerous medication. Lowering their intelligence, getting them addicted, destroying their lives.

Every year the APA (American Psychiatric Association) holds a mass gathering and they literally MAKE UP new 'disorders', 'illnesses' and general mental problems in order to sell drugs and make money.

And the amazing thing is that the psychiatrists openly admit this!

And if you don't believe me on what i'm saying then just watch this YouTube video
Psychiatry Exposed

reply to post by BlueBottle

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...that is a good video; agreed about inventing disorders to dose people up, I think the stat is almost or exactly half the U.S. population is on some form of pharm -- too much, fine, the elderly may 'need' at that juncture, but such a large percentage is fraud and medicine manipulation. Especially when there's natural remedies for any true ailments people do have.

reply to post by anhinga

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WOW 50% of America is on drugs?? I had no idea it was THAT bad. Thanks for sharing.

Yes and also I know of so many natural and alternate medicines that have been proven to work 10 fold better than any drugs that have ever been thought up. BUT unfortunately these medicines of nature are being covered up and suppressed by the big drug corps since they know that there's little money in selling people products that they can't patent, and especially little money if the medicine actually CURE people.

Nevertheless, things are being done about this problem. But more people just need to join the fight.