handgun?

reply to post by on_yur_6


Those duys know how to test a gun

Rested groups with same ammo types, best results were produced with both guns by Norma K-Pist, as usual. I personally think that they had good example of HS and bad XD. And a larger selection of guns would have evened it out.

reply to post by northwolf


BTW... When I get my .45 back, I'll have to post some pics for you guys...

It's getting a rattlesnake skin finish instead of the standard blue. It will be a while though. The guy is giving me a great deal 'cause he only works on it in his spare time.

You can't go wrong with a Glock. Whatever calibre you want in whatever configuration you want. Just find the model frame size that suits your needs, pick a calibre and you have a decent personal defence package at an affordable price.

For example, you want a concealable pistol that is easy to control? Try a model 19 (compact 9mm, 15+1 capacity)

You want something for home defence that hits hard? Try a model 21 (Full size .45ACP, 13+1 capacity)

You want something that will fit in the coat pocket yet still packs a punch? Try a model 27 (sub-compact .40S&W, 9+1 capacity)

The options are endless. The great thing is you can buy a couple of different pistols and the controls are the same. They are reliable, accurate and easy to shoot. Despite being light weight, felt recoil is manageable because of frame absorbtion and grip design, making it easy to fire rapidly and accurately. If you want an even more controlable package, many of the popular configurations are available with a compensated barrel ("C" models) which reduces felt recoil even more.

Put quite simply, there's something for everyone.

Glock 9mm. The action is smooth. Dry, it is featherweight, action and operation is fairly easy, and a breeze to maintain. Slugs for the 9mm are very common, and really, really cheap anywhere you go. I hear it's like the AK-47 in terms of reliability after being in the elements, as well. It's also small and compact, and I'm a big fan of the sights, but these days, a quality gun will have similar sights. Smith and Wesson .40 caliber subcompact is a nice little gun to own too. It also gives you a bit more balance with regards to weight distribution.

Im upset that I cant buy an M4 carbine, I live southern california, at onetime they were as legal to buy as apples, but now your looking at time if your caught with one. Where was the "backlash" then? Oh wait were waiting for them to outlaw them all at once.

I'm absolutely smitten with my FN FiveseveN- granted the 5.7mm ammo is pricey, but you just can't beat a 20 round magazine.

The first perp to break into my house who's smart enough to be wearing kevlar is getting a suprise!

gotta say, my personal fav was my HK USP40.

the 40s&w is a nice compromise between the 9mm and the .45acp, the recoil was no problem, standard 3dot sights with the option for tritium if you wanted to lay out the money. the decocker/safety was on the lower part of the frame so even someone with smaller hands such as myself had no problem reaching them, the slide release was extended so you could hit it without changing your grip, and while there are a lot of glock fans out there, i just really like an external hammer pistol.

as far as concealable, eh, i tend to carry in the small of my back and it always rode comfortably there for me, even when id get in the car (though id usually take it out, who needs to be doing acrobatics to reach their piece when they are being carjacked?)

sure, you'll pay more for a USP than for most others but you do get what you pay for.

I've got a H&K USP .45 and I love it. I conceal it though it is bulky, 12 round capacity. If you want something smaller, I'd recommend the USP compact in .45 . You might want to wait for the new HK45 compact as well. H&K makes some very high quality firearms though expensive.




[edit on 25-11-2007 by pill]

To those wondering if they could U2U me, sure, but I don't have 20 posts yet so I can't reply. My email is on my profile though.

Personally, I am a Sig Sauer man myself. You guys can keep your glocks

Let me know what your budget is and intended purpose (home defense, ccw, etc.)

Concealed carry, my friend, is an art form.

Yoda: “Once you start down the path of the Armed Side, forever will it dominate your destiny.”

Luke: “Look runt, I’ve been carrying a laser blaster since I was twelve! Don’t hold back on warfare training now!” “Not knowing how to fight seems more dangerous than knowing”

What most people need to understand about self defense is that it is essentially a new way of life. Being armed is less about what weapon that you have and more about your training and your mindset. All weapons are different, and it does matter, but for a new join to the world of concealed carry it is not the most important thing.

What you should do is go to a class and then go to a gun range where you can rent different firearms. Then, whatever one you decide on go ahead and purchase it and start carrying. What you will find over time is that your training, tastes, and situations will change such that you will want to either trade in your old gun for a different one, or go ahead and get a second gun or other weapon.

I myself am developing a host of different carry methods and weapons. Knives, guns, brass knuckles, kubotons, it’s all fair game and relevant given the circumstances and the environment. I don’t carry an arsenal of crap on me at all times. What I have developed over time is a lot of tricks in my bag so to speak.

That’s what will happen to you also. You will develop concealed carry into a life style of self defense. You will go through a lot of different weapons at first finding the “one” that you want and then realize that all of them have their place and advantages. Then you will start developing your styles, and your tool box, of self defense.

I personally SHOOT a Hi-Point pistol since I have budget constraints but I was very pleased with it granted it doesn't look nice and it has a sub-par trigger it does shoot good groups at engagement ranges and is very reliable, I had only a couple of misfeeds when the weapon was still breaking in but could all be fixed by racking the slide another time, it shoots more accurate than I can.

I also own the carbine and am pleased with that as well.

But I would personally get a more expensive polymer pistol such as an XD, Glock or USP is you can afford it, the S&W M&P is also very promising and I would considder that as well.

In the long run it's whatever feels more comfortable in your hands.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


HI Points improve after about 500 rounds or so, but I wouldn't trust one with my life. I do like the warranty though. For a budget handgun, look into a Bersa.

P.S. I used to have one of the carbines. It always reminded me of the guns the gorillas used is Planet of the Apes.

Originally posted by Solliz
Personally, I am a Sig Sauer man myself. You guys can keep your glocks

Love the SIG. I carried a P226 on NI Special Duties for a couple of years. Lovely weapon. I had no real problems with it at all.

The reason that I advocate Glocks is because the offer anything you could possibly ask for in pretty much any configuration. They also run a lot cheaper than the SIG, which is always a consideration if you're forking out your own money.

Performance between the two for combat/personal defence is negligable. The choice really comes down to personal preference. Suffice as to say that whichever you pick you won't be disappointed.

If you can't do the business with a Glock or a SIG, then you shouldn't be using a pistol.

Originally posted by Solliz

For a budget handgun, look into a Bersa.

P.S. I used to have one of the carbines. It always reminded me of the guns the gorillas used is Planet of the Apes.

i used to own a bersa .380. loved it. though the hammer safety lever had a tendancy to break (went through 2 of them, and they werent easy to find)

and i really do like the Hi-Point carbines. i had the 9mm with a aimpoint scope and had fabricated a mount for a minimag under the foregrip with a pressure switch. heh, and the HP carbines WILL take +P loads no problem best part is, even with the brand new mini mag, the pressure switch and the optic, i only had like 230 bucks into it. (got it used then added my own accessories)

so, 230 bucks for something that would empty a mag in a 2" circle rapidly at 25m? cant complain about that can ya? plus they are machined much like an AK...so they take abuse really well though admittedly do have a tendancy to misfeed the rounds from time to time, but in my experience, no more often than an M16 (in retrospect, quite a lot less actually...) so hey...

I'm confused about one thing. I heard the 9mm pistol round breaks the sound barrier as the .40 the .45 do not. What are the pros and cons of your ammunition having that much speed behind it? Wouldn't a subsonic round be more useful in regards to how you use a handgun?

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
I'm confused about one thing. I heard the 9mm pistol round breaks the sound barrier as the .40 the .45 do not. What are the pros and cons of your ammunition having that much speed behind it? Wouldn't a subsonic round be more useful in regards to how you use a handgun?

The gist of it is to keep a high Kinetic Energy with a smaller bullet diameter/weight.

KE = half mass X velocity squared. By increasing the velocity of the round you dramatically increase the kinetic energy. This increases penetration, which is one of the factors required of a bullet in defensive shootings. According to FBI trials a bullet needs to be able to penetrate 12-14 inches of ballistic gel in order to be capable of reliably hitting vital organs in a person.

9mm uses its' velocity to increase KE. .45ACP relies more on mass. .40S&W is a halfway house of both.

KE is only one of may factors regarding calibre choice. Other factors include frontal surface area, bullet design, recoil, firers' hand size and a host of other things.

There are hundreds of arguments about 9mm v .45ACP v .40S&W. No doubt there will be people here who disagree with me, but I reckon that anything from 9mm upwards with decent bullet design should do the job.

That's the best return I've had on any post in a very long time. Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. Well done.

I carry either an XD .45, Charter Arms 2" .38 or a Kel-Tec PF-9.

I used to carry the XD all the time but during practices and IDPA type drills I came to the conclusion that for everyday dress and travel the draw time was too long and printing was almost always an issue. I'm a tall thin guy so bulges are pretty obvious. Unless I wanted to stick the XD down into my crotch I'd always have to worry about the bulge.

The .38 is nice under a jacket but I don't wear suits like I used to so now the PF-9 is always on me. It's easy to hide and comfortable to wear even in the Summer with just shorts and a T-shirt and because I don't have to bury it to cover the print it's the faster drawing handgun I have.

The PF-9 has it's share of failures and complaints out there but the best I can tell is that production isn't exactly accurate. You'll either get a bad one or a good one. From the same sources I've heard Kel-Tec's customer service is really good and they will get a good one to you sooner or later. Think Microsoft and the Xbox debacle. I shot it like crazy over and over before deciding to carry it. Mine has been 100% for I don't know how many rounds so I feel confident it will work for me if I need it to.

But, if I were some big fat guy and wore baggy clothes I'd probably carry the XD more. Now it's for when I have to travel through especially discerning parts of town which thankfully is not very often.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I'm a tall thin guy so bulges are pretty obvious. Unless I wanted to stick the XD down into my crotch I'd always have to worry about the bulge.

I've read a lot of mixed reviews about the Keltec's. Especially the one that shoots the .32 ACP. Lot's of misfeeds. Can conceal easy but the round is too small.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by on_yur_6]

[edit on 30-11-2007 by on_yur_6]

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I've read a lot of mixd reviews about the Keltec's. Especially the one that shoots the .32 ACP. Lot's or misfeeds. Can conceal easy but the round is too small.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by on_yur_6]

When I went looking for a smaller CCW I thought I was going to come home with the P3AT (.380, get it? KT must have thought it was cute or something)

I didn't want to go as small as .380 but when I got to handle both the P3AT and the PF-9 the size was nearly identical. Had to go with the 9mm.

The reviews are mixed. It's hit or miss. Either you get a good one or a bad one. Hundreds of rounds through mine and luckily I seemed to have gotten a "good" one. I know a couple of guys who got "bad" ones but KelTec was pretty good to them getting things worked out.

I should also mention that I am broke as hell hence the budget priced arms.

I'm thinking about getting a SW M+P in .40 after Christmas.