if you live right, work hard, follow the law, CAN YOU FAIL IN AMERICA?

I think not! if you do fail so what, you try, try and try again. In this wonderfull country in is near impossible to fail. No one would say it's allways easy! But, the truth is any one can sucseed. If you can't do it here it's unlikly you would do it anywhere. Happy Thanks Giving everyone!

The short answer is "Yes, you can and people do every single day!" In order to avoid a one-liner post, I will elaborate on my answer... I know many people who "live right, work hard, follow the law" and have failed both spectacularly and miserably. One such person, a dear friend of mine, has never had so much as a traffic ticket, does not drink or smoke or use drugs, is a family man to the core and risked it all to start his own business. He worked like a fool - all day, every day, seven days a week. One of his "backers' went bankrupt and one of his major clients went out of business without pasying off their contract - it killed his company! He went broke, lost his house, had to declare bunkruptcy himself which ultimately led to the breakup of his marriage and family due tot he stress of it all.

He failed even though he tried his best - "Lived right, worked hard, followed the law" and lost it all. He works for someone else now and is in debt up to his eyes. He lives like a serf in a two room apartment with all of his money going to pay of creditors and child support. What did he do wrong?

Your argument is a complete non-sequitur having nothing to do whatsoever with everyday reality that people are living through. People fail in America every single minute of every single day. There is nothing magical about America that prevents failure - only something that makes success more likely than anywhere else - if you're lucky.

Can you live right, work hard, follow the law and fail in America? Certainly.

To rebut your second sentence, it is more than likely you will fail than succeed so it is not even close to being impossible. More likely, people meet failure after trying and trying and lower their standards to a point to where they have some success.

The truth is also that any one can fail. If you cannot succeed in America, you could be successful somewhere else, depending on your goals. Sorry to be pessimistic, but every coin has two sides.

Happy Thanksgiving as well.

reply to post by kozmo


Sorry for your friends cercumstances but, thats just life. He hasn't failed, he has had setbacks. He is alive, he is not stuck in debters prison, he has an income, he has children (even if the wife abandoned him) He has his health and is till able to follow his dream if he still chooses. HE IS FAR FROM A FAILURE!!! In fact it's just another example!

[edit on 21-11-2007 by rockets red glare]

Well if someone that has the grammar that you do succeeded in America, then you are right anyone can do it! Seriously, you don't even know how to spell succeed? (sucseed) thats really bad. Public school?

reply to post by hikix

never needed to type to make my living, and still became a fantastic SUCESS story! THX VERY MUCH

Originally posted by rockets red glare
Sorry for your friends cercumstances but, thats just life. He hasn't failed, he has had setbacks. He is alive, he is not stuck in debters prison, he has an income, he has children (even if the wife abandoned him) He has his health and is till able to follow his dream if he still chooses. HE IS FAR FROM A FAILURE!!!

You sound like you have listened to a lot of motivational tapes. Why is it a setback and not failure? It is failure if you have not met your goals. Calling it a nicer sounding name doesn't excuse it for what it is. Besides, you seem to be defining what failure is by defining what it is not.

This is a classic example being an optimist on your part. Maybe you should share your sentiments with people in a hospice. I am sure many of them would not think their predicament is a setback.

reply to post by hikix


THATS RIGHT! ANYONE CAN DO IT!!! IF ONE MAN CAN DO IT, ANY ONE CAN DO IT! SERIOUSLY

There are choices, decisions you make when you are young that lead you down certain roads. THey are the most important choices of your life. They define you and your future. They determine your success or failure. Success by the way isn't monetary, nor is failure. You can recover from failures but as you get older the more difficult it becomes and some just give up. Some make easy choices or let other decide for them. One of the most difficult decision you'll ever make is decide to "think" for yourself.

ile keep it short.

it entirely depends upon what you believe is success and failure for a human being.

will you fulfil the potential evolution has given you?

In spite of many people's best efforts, they still fail. Opportunity is not a guarantee of success, and there's nothing that will protect you against huge forces of random chance and deliberate malfeasance. A lot of businessmen get ripped off by their partners. Is it their fault that they didn't see it coming? People's businesses are destroyed by natural disasters? Insurance can protect against some of it, but not all.

You can be a good, productive citizen and still get hit by a drunk driver, crippling you and making it impossible for you to succeed at anything.

Also, we will all die. And whether you're rich or poor, American or not, it won't make any difference. All of our successes and failures are fantasies and folly, wiped away by our inevitable deaths.

What is success? What does it mean?

What is failure? How do you define it? According to who?

What do you mean by working hard?

What do you mean by "doing what is right"...right according to who?

Am I responsible for 20, 30, 40, 50, 90 or 100 % of what happens to me?

How can I improve?


I know people love to throw up answers continually, but you can think deeper by asking questions.

reply to post by rockets red glare


...insanity

sorry, just one word is a counter-point to everything you've said. if you're born insane you don't necessarily have a chance at success.
look at the homeless population. most of them aren't homeless because they're just lazy and don't work hard enough, most of them are mentally troubled and don't receive the help they need.

sorry, but you're just wrong here.

rockets red glare, what's up with you and caps recently?

Oh yes, you can fail.


My grandfather worked hard every day of his life. Never stole a dime from anyone.


Today he lives with my folks. Lost his farm, house, car, everything but the shirt on his back. He's penniless.


Now, that's just a measure of the wealth he has to show for all his work. Thank god he has family looking after him today.


There is definitely a problem in this country when everyone is working like crazy trying to make ends meet, but we're all in debt.


I don't know a living soul who isn't in debt, yet we all keep working...


How can the producers of value in a society be in debt? We aren't taking more out of the system than we are putting into it.


Where's all the money going? Why is everyone 1 payment away from losing everything?


No, this isn't everybody, but it's everybody > I < know.

reply to post by rockets red glare



There's a problem with the thinking "If one man can do it, anyone can." While true of many things, and life in general, it is not true of banking and finance in the money system we have today. Since so much of our lives revolve around the nature of money, the understanding how money works is an important issue to us all.

As the interest-bearing loan system works today, the number of people who will default on their loans or have their homes foreclosed on can be deterministically predicted with a mathematical formula. So how on earth can all of the people in this system expect to do what is required of them when it is mathematically impossible? It's DETERMINED that x-percent will fail on their loans, no matter how dependable, honest, or hard working they may be:

P / (P + I) will fulfill the contract of a loan.
I / (P + I) will be foreclosed on.

Your reliability or trustworthiness might give you a better chance over someone else, but the amazing thing is that even if we were all perfect, it wouldn't matter. The predicted number of people operating in this closed money system will fail.

This is a problem. Why do we keep allowing this type of system to exist?

Is it because we don't understand enough about economics to create a better one?

While ignorance may be bliss, it certainly doesn't help the reality of things. What we need to do is find out for ourselves what options we have when considering instituting a money system.


Historically, money in the United States has worked under two categorically different systems:

1) The government created money, and spent it into the economy. From there it circulated around forever.

2) Banks created money, then “loaned” it to the government, demanding interest on it. Since they didn't create the interest money to pay all the debts back, the only way the system could be kept from collapsing was to loan out more money when people didn't have enough to pay the bank back.


Clearly, a system is flawed when what is expected cannot be achieved.

YOU are expected to pay back your loans with interest, but the interest money was never created. While you might be able to get money from someone else and pay the bank back, that other person is screwed.

The screwed person could just as easily been YOU.

Imagine a game of musical chairs. 10 chairs, 11 people. The banker says “I will make it safe for all. I'll loan out a chair so there is enough for everyone to sit in. But later, I was 2 chairs back.”

When it comes time to pay the banker back, now there are only 9 chairs for 11 people, with the bank owning 2.

Repeat this cycle a few more times and it's easy to see how the bank will end up with all the chairs, and the people will have no place to sit.

Originally posted by rockets red glare
I think not! if you do fail so what, you try, try and try again. In this wonderfull country in is near impossible to fail. No one would say it's allways easy! But, the truth is any one can sucseed. If you can't do it here it's unlikly you would do it anywhere. Happy Thanks Giving everyone!

Wow... after reading that I was expecting Hulk Hogan to burst through my door waving an American flag with doves being released in the air and Blue Angels flying over head.

I don't agree with any of that either.

You want me toi be honest? Yes, yes you can do all of those things and still fail... For one reason. People set their expectations of what they consider to be "success" too high..

We live in a country where everyone tries to live beyond and above their means..

A family that is making 100,000 dollars a year has no reason to want more, yet, they do. They want the 500,000 dollar home and the 100,000 dollar vehicle. Why? Of what use are these impermanent things?

Look, if I were married and I had a child and made 70,000 dollars a year, there would be absolutely no logical reason for my wife to work. The only reason for both parents to work in such a situation would be greed. Yet, when you l;ook around this country, it is exactly what you have. You have both parents working, making a combined income of 200.000 + dollars a year, and their child is running wild. Why? The lust for more.

To me, success is having a family and living comfortably. To everyone else, it seems to be something else...




[edit on 24-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Well speaker, I cant dissagree with that. Yes many people consider themselves failures wether they are or not. But, maybe that in itselve is very telling. Because there really is nothing stopping them on their perpsonal quest to persue their own dream as long as it doesn't interfere with some one else's.

reply to post by rockets red glare
Explain your definition of "Fail"