It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia's nuclear forces placed on alert

page: 6
23
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 11:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Telos
Actually Putin (I call him putana in italian which means whore
) is not at all a dumb ****.


That's so cute. Everyone seems to have pet names for Putti Put.


Originally posted by Telos
But he is aggressive and war monger.


War monger? Really? What wars has he started since his presidency? And how in your opinion does he manifest his aggression? By charging market prices for oil? If Russia today can be called a war monger and an aggressor, than what excuse me is the US?


Originally posted by Telos
When are we gonna see a leader smart enough to lead his country toward prosperity and at the same time with the good sense and peace loving? I guess never


If by we you mean Russia, than I think the answer is never. If only because regardless of what Russian leaders actually do, they will always be perceived by some in the West as "war mongers and aggressors". So I guess Russia and its leaders are stuck in this vacuum of animosity for long time to come, as far as Americans are concerned anyway.

It doesn't matter what Putin's actual policies or decision are, and what they are based on. The Western media is hammering into people's .s the idea that Putin is some wanna-be commie KGB evil dictator that wants to turn Russia into a new Roman Empire. And that is exactly how he is perceived. Forget the fact that maybe 5% of these people actually keep up with what is happening with Russia, and what Putin is doing there.

Putin is not a great leader, he has made some huge mistakes, and he has some character flaws I think. But neither of these things are the ones he is getting blamed for in the West. It is funny how the most discussed leader in the world, is also the least known.




posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 11:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by Telos
When are we gonna see a leader smart enough to lead his country toward prosperity and at the same time with the good sense and peace loving?


People don't get too far in politics with those qualities.

As for Putin being stupid, far from it, he looks very cold though. And all the 'commie' talk is confusing me, I haven't heard that crap since I was a kid. I thought our enemy was Islamic fundamentalists now. It's like some people miss the cold war and their commie-phobias so much that anytime Russia disagrees with us (which is mandatory for them and China anyway), they are magically whisked back to the days of the USSR in their own minds.

As a very (I'd like to think) balanced American, I ask the super patriots to stop embarassing us. Please.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 11:48 AM
link   


Putin is the grandson of the personal chef for Stalin and Lenin.


Source for that please.

And a few articles about Kosovo:

www.globalresearch.ca...

================



For eight years Kosovo has enjoyed de facto autonomy under the protection of 17,000 Nato troops. These have allowed the regime to "reverse-cleanse" the province of half its Serbs, including virtually all the 40,000 who once lived in the capital, Pristina. There are barely 200,000 left, just 10% of the population. Although the new prime minister, the former guerrilla Hashim Thaci, declares that "Kosovo is ready for independence", he cannot mean it. Kosovo is a Nato protectorate under UN administration, with more aid per . than any state in Asia or Africa. What Thaci wants is not independence but the luxuriant post-intervention dependency enjoyed by Bosnia, Sierra Leone and the embattled regimes in Baghdad and Kabul.


/2efowe

There is so much bull# NeoCon mongering towards Russia and I'm surprised to see how many of you are falling for it. How difficult is it to step into their shoes for one moment and understand their actions? Virtually every complaint launched by the West can be thrown in the trash due to glaring hypocrisy alone.

Meanwhile, off topic, but here is some advice from an evil Russian.

homepage.mac.com...



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 12:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rasputin13

As for the main topic at hand... I'm sick of people blaming the US for the muscle-flexing and the undiplomatic moves and statements made by world leaders and terrorists alike. Believe it or not, we are not entirely responsible for the anti-American sentiment and the provocative actions of leaders like Putin. Or do you think we should give up the potential advantages of a purely defensive missile system just because Putin is afraid it will nullify his ability to nuke us and our allies with ICBM's? I mean, do you honestly realize how absurd that is? And let me state for the record that I am not saying this is your personal opinion, because I really don't know what your thoughts are on the ABM Treaty or the missile shield are. But I do know that a good number of ATS members think that we should give in to Putin's demands and abandon the missile defense program, or at the very least relocate it to appease him. Obviously, I disagree with such policies of appeasement. They will only enbolden countries like China, Iran, North Korea and others. We have enough of a problem with regimes flaunting the will of the our government and the governments of the free world.


My opinion is that we do need a Missile Defense Network and we should work with Russia on it. We have a common enemy, Islamic Militants, and we should work together against them. That means us supporting Russia in Chechnya and not pushing for Kosovo's independence. They on the other hand would have to compromise as well on Iran. I think it would be better than whats happening now.

[edit on 22/11/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 12:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
My opinion is that we do need a Missile Defense Network and we should work with Russia on it.


Russia did offer to support and even co-sponsor the missile defense shield with the U.S., if the U.S. would have agreed to place it in Azerbaijan - right on the border with Iran. Russia already has extensive satellite installations there, and the Azerbaijani highland overlooks the entire Iran. The U.S. decided against this.

If U.S. cooperated with Russia on this, it would mean that Russia would have to stop supporting Iran. I think Bush lost a great opportunity there, and now it is too late to turn everything back, as Putin as already visited Iran and made some agreements with them.


[edit on 22-11-2007 by maloy]



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 01:02 PM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 


That really bothers me that the administration has been so short sighted and arrogant. I hope there may be a way to get us and Russia to work together on Missile Defense in the future , but I fear it may be impossible until a new administration comes in.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by maloy
 


That really bothers me that the administration has been so short sighted and arrogant. I hope there may be a way to get us and Russia to work together on Missile Defense in the future , but I fear it may be impossible until a new administration comes in.



Just noticed this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


There still may be hope for that after all. Looks like negotiations are in the making, and it depends on which side will give up its assertiveness, if any.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 04:25 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


It's bull. russia won't go to war with any European nation until the small window gap between the North American Union's formation and the End of a sovereign US. This window will allow them to exercise full control as the US will be out of town during the reformations of government. They have brains, and are using them.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 04:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by 27jd
People don't get too far in politics with those qualities.

As for Putin being stupid, far from it, he looks very cold though. And all the 'commie' talk is confusing me, I haven't heard that crap since I was a kid. I thought our enemy was Islamic fundamentalists now. It's like some people miss the cold war and their commie-phobias so much that anytime Russia disagrees with us (which is mandatory for them and China anyway), they are magically whisked back to the days of the USSR in their own minds.

As a very (I'd like to think) balanced American, I ask the super patriots to stop embarassing us. Please.


You take the cake. There are people sick enough to think that things were "better" then due to the simplicity of having a monolithic enemy to face down. As you and I know, there is not "new Cold War." This is classic international relations at hand.

As for the Super Patriots, they are actually against this kind of thinking. Its what I like to call the "Hyper-Patriots" (basically the neoconservatives) that advocate this irrational line of thought.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 07:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by maloy

War monger? Really? What wars has he started since his presidency? And how in your opinion does he manifest his aggression? By charging market prices for oil? If Russia today can be called a war monger and an aggressor, than what excuse me is the US?


Why do you have to compare? Did I ever say that USA is better?



If by we you mean Russia, than I think the answer is never.


No by we I mean all of us and by the leader I mean all of them. No exceptions...

edit for adding tags

[edit on 22-11-2007 by Telos]



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 11:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by kozmo
There are way too many complexities in this situation to simply dismiss it as posturing, politics etc... I'm not sure what is going on here
but you can bet it has something to do with who is going to come out on top in the race for control of the global economy, it's resources and the one-world government.

The Asian cartels along with the Russians are VERY upset with the NWO (Tri-lats, bilderbergers, CFR) guys. There's a lot of posturing going on that the average person is not privvy too - a major pissing contest if you will, coupled by brassy one-upmanship on both sides. The scary part is that we (Average folks like you and me, reading and writing these posts who care only about peace and freedom) are nothing but cannon fodder and pawns in this ridiculous game.

The NWO needs control of global oil, or at least the majority of it. I believe that they have already surmised that they have no way of getting control of the Russian reserves. Russia recognizes this and is leveraging against them by forming partnerships with China, Iran, Venezuela and other questionable countries to counter this power-play.

I think the important, yet sad part of all of this is that we are talking about a couple hundred men on both sides of the issue playing all of this out like some grand game like Risk. They don't really care about how this is affecting the common man or woman or what the implications are for mankind. I honestly believe that the world (Mankind) will never reach it's full potential until we root out every single one of these pigs and hang them in the squares and towncenters around the world!!! There has never been a more appropriate time for revolution than right now!


LOL Worldwide, co-ordinated Rebellion.

I'd like to see that....hehe

Then they can place a Direct Democracy style 1 world Government & let all the ppl vote for all the bills & Propositions & regulations etc...

Like the big guys would ever let that happen.

If they cant own the World, nobody will...!!!

WE voted these dick.s in all over the world & WE let them screw things up. Now they have all the power & WE are far too gone to stop them now.

All we can do is sit & wait & hope the first missile don't land square on your house


[edit on 25-11-2007 by Ironclad]



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 01:30 PM
link   
In response to increased air activity Yesterday as I left my driveway I noticed a large number of vapors in the sky. Large enough I think to possibly be B-52 trails. I am located in SE PA. There is not any active air bases close with the exception of Willow Grove which I believe has been down sized.



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by 27jd
[more

I thank you for your perspective and enlightment.



posted on Nov, 26 2007 @ 01:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Neither had I, pavil. But I still don't think it matches how close to the brink we came in the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.




To your point, taken from the cited report




In any event, it was not comparable to the Cuban crisis, when the superpowers were on a collision course, US nuclear forces were on full alert, and--as recently revealed--the USSR had deployed nuclear weapons in Cuba.



Just my two cents:
The former USSR is irrelevant in modern, world politics. Putin has been steadily consolidating power. There is a large, nationalistic movement (not judging, just relating my opinion) that pines for "the way it was", so to speak. Of course, like all memories, the horrible conditions within the USSR are thing s that seem to be forgotten. Allot of what you hear about in the media and blogs is Putin attempting to put Russia back on the stage of relevancy in world matters.

There was allot of noise around the resumption of flights over the pole by Russia. What is missing in the reporting is what the Russians are able to send skyward is not a credible threat.

At this point, it's pure political posturing. Could it turn into something much worse? Personally, I don't think so. Not in the near future. That is, Russia versus the west.

Russia, with allies (China, Iran, etc) versus the West? Now that's something.



[edit on 21-11-2007 by SlightlyAbovePar]


You bet your rumperino its something. Russia and China working together with Iran and South America? This was quite unexpected and being that China is becoming the economic super-power- NATO is rapidly losing its position of influence- with loss of influence comes loss of power.

The "elite" will throw a final punch- because they are the bullies on the playground who want everyone's "lunch money" that they can get their hands on. Bullies will always bully until they get their arses kicked and stomped into submission- which eventually will happen.

Its merely a matter of how and when..Not why!



posted on Nov, 26 2007 @ 03:09 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


You get a star from me. This will be something to keep an eye on. The whole Cold War thing really had my dad nervous, which of course made my mom nervous, then you can figure out what hapened to the family. Putin really can't be trusted in my opinion. Thanks for the post



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 03:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by maloy
Serbs supported Russian involvement from the very start, and Russia was directly invited by their leadership to defend them from NATO encrouchment. Serbs have always viewed Russia as their brothers, and Russians likewise. Kosovo is and was (and very hopefully will always be) Serbian historical territory, thus Serbs decide what to do there, and who to invite there. Russians were welcomes in Kosovo by the local ethnic population (and I mean Serb).

You probably see all ex-USSR states as historical Russian territory as well. Why cannot you Russians understand that invading some country does not make it yours?

Unrelated to Kosovo, I believe the sad fact is that Russian people throughout their history have only lived as slaves under a strong leadership. Be it then the Tzar, The Communist party or Mr Putin.They do not understand freedom and they do not understand free will. Therefore they cannot run a democratic country and therefore they cannot understand nor respect those who do.

[edit on 27-11-2007 by Alphard]



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 02:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alphard
Therefore they cannot run a democratic country and therefore they cannot understand nor respect those who do.


Why can't they respect those who do? I respect them, despite (slight) differences in the way we are governed. I think a little respect and understanding can go a long ways in both directions...



posted on Nov, 27 2007 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alphard
You probably see all ex-USSR states as historical Russian territory as well.


Not at all. Only Crimea is considered historical Russian territory, and was given to Ukraine as a gift by Khruschev. Possibly Belarus, but Belarus is far more complex. I admit that Russia holds large portions of others' "historical territory", such as Finland's.



Originally posted by Alphard
Why cannot you Russians understand that invading some country does not make it yours?


Am I missing something? Who did Russia invade? Since 1990, the only place Russians invaded was the Kremlin.


Originally posted by Alphard
Unrelated to Kosovo, I believe the sad fact is that Russian people throughout their history have only lived as slaves under a strong leadership. Be it then the Tzar, The Communist party or Mr Putin.


True, but who hasn't lived as slaves under leadership. Most revolutions in Europe that brought rule by the people happened only in 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, and even then the power struggles and dictatorships didn't end untill well into the 20th century. The rest of the world is lagging even further. The Russians were simply unlucky in that their revolution in 1918 substituted one authoriatarian government for another. But Russians can hardly be called slaves during the last 50 years. Sure they don't have complete control over their government even today, but its not slavery.



Originally posted by Alphard
They do not understand freedom and they do not understand free will.


Everyone understands free will who has the mental capacity to comprehend it. One can understand free will, and yet be denied it. And Russians have very much embraced free will - especially when it comes to capitalism. And if you are talking about politics - then who in the world has free will? Where is the free will in the U.S., with the majority of the people wanting the end to the Iraqi War, yet seeing no response from the government?

And don't tell me all Americans understand free will. If somebody blindly believes their government's propaganda without giving it second thought, can be said to have no comrehension of free will. Look at the number of Americans who trusted their government about the terrorists, and WMD's, and the "axis of evil". If one is not thinking for oneself, and is letting the government think for them - they are not free and dont understand freedom. And this is common to every country in the world. Generalizing Russians in this respect is hypocritical.


Originally posted by Alphard
Therefore they cannot run a democratic country


How do you know? Russian democracy is only 17 years old, and they had little chance to run a democratic country. Democracy is not created in a day or a year or a decade, especially when you have a country like Russia. Don't compare it to the U.S. or Western Europe, who all had centuries, or at least 60 years since the end of WWII to develop their democracies. And don't compare it to small Eastern European countries, who do not have the same economic, political, and ethnical complexity as Russia.

And those Democracies that are created in a day, usually only with outside bolstering, usually crumble just as quick. What Russia needs is time, and patience from the West. And of course honest leadership. To say that Russia, or China, or any other country cannot have a democracy is in my opinion derogatorry and prejudiced. You just need to wait untill all of the right factors come together.



Originally posted by Alphard
and therefore they cannot understand nor respect those who do.


I am sure Putin understands and respects "those who do" have a democracy. What he and Russians do not respect, are those democracies that attempt to pressure and impose their style of democracy onto others, through either overt or openly aggressive and violent means - I think you know who I am talking about.

And no country in the world today can claim to be the torch bearer for an ideal democracy - because there are no ideal democracies. Thus no nation has the right to determine what democracy is, and how it should be run.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 05:32 AM
link   
My entire reply was inspired by your one sentence - 'Kosovo is a historic area of Serbs and you hope it always will be'. I immediately drew the connection with the oh-so-numerous statements from different Russian officials and common people stating that the Baltic states are the historical area of Russia. And without further thought I lashed out without much consideration. Mistake of-course considering that after even a brief research it IS obvious that Kosovo actually IS historic Serb area. My bad.

Thanks for the long replies once again. I will not duplicate the discussion we are having in the other thread by addressing the points you made.



posted on Nov, 28 2007 @ 06:51 AM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


dont forget the time one of your ligther subs, hit one of their typhoon class that was in the middle of a presentation for china to buy a few up in the atlantic ocean i think was... by a matter of fact i believe was the kursk.... russia was very close to bomb the hell out of the US with nukes, but the US mediated the hold situation, cancelling the financial debt that russia had with the US at the time and some other things that US provided so that the situation was calmed down and did not end up in very ungly nuclear war.



new topics

top topics



 
23
<< 3  4  5    7 >>

log in

join