How Does Aluminum Cut Steel?, page 85

reply to post by lunarasparagus

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Really? How does he know this? He doesn't. He's using his no-planer "common sense"and nothing that actually involves real physics.

I'm still wondering why, if the aircraft damage to the WTC was so obviously impossible, there are no credible experts disputing it. It's not even debated among professionals in the field.

Seems like he's offering to replace the steel plow used in the Mythbusters vid with a section of wing, and replace the car with a section of steel boxes and spandrel plate built to the specifications of the WTC.

And as far as credible experts, my money's on Newton.

Originally posted by Yankenstein
reply to post by lunarasparagus

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Really? How does he know this? He doesn't. He's using his no-planer "common sense"and nothing that actually involves real physics.

I'm still wondering why, if the aircraft damage to the WTC was so obviously impossible, there are no credible experts disputing it. It's not even debated among professionals in the field.

Seems like he's offering to replace the steel plow used in the Mythbusters vid with a section of wing, and replace the car with a section of steel boxes and spandrel plate built to the specifications of the WTC.

And as far as credible experts, my money's on Newton.

I understand what is being proposed, but did you notice where the author states:

According to 9/11 a jet wing traveling at 500 MPH sliced through multiple steel box columns without even slowing down, you’d think they’d know that. They went way overboard with this plow.

The implication is that if a jet wing can slice through steel box columns, the Mythbusters crew didn't need to bother with a steel wedge, they could have just used some aircraft aluminum to slice through the car.

As for Newton, he's a good bet. The authors of the research articles I presented demonstrated mathematically using classical Newtonian physics that the wings could have easily sliced through the perimeter columns of the WTC.

reply to post by lunarasparagus

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The implication is that if a jet wing can slice through steel box columns, the Mythbusters crew didn't need to bother with a steel wedge, they could have just used some aircraft aluminum to slice through the car.

As for Newton, he's a good bet. The authors of the research articles I presented demonstrated mathematically using classical Newtonian physics that the wings could have easily sliced through the perimeter columns of the WTC.

The implications are that the wing won't be able to cut the steel, regardless what math theory says. The test would be about as accurate as can be.

Just imagining the relatively hollow aluminum gas tank colliding with three 1/4 inch thick steel boxes bound with a four and a half foot spandrel plate at 550 MPH should be enough for most folks, but the test should remove all doubt.

Originally posted by Yankenstein
reply to post by lunarasparagus

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The implication is that if a jet wing can slice through steel box columns, the Mythbusters crew didn't need to bother with a steel wedge, they could have just used some aircraft aluminum to slice through the car.

As for Newton, he's a good bet. The authors of the research articles I presented demonstrated mathematically using classical Newtonian physics that the wings could have easily sliced through the perimeter columns of the WTC.

The implications are that the wing won't be able to cut the steel, regardless what math theory says. The test would be about as accurate as can be.

Just imagining the relatively holly aluminum gas tank colliding with three 1/4 inch thick steel boxes bound with a four and a half foot spandrel plate at 550 MPH should be enough for most folks, but the test should remove all doubt.

edit on 15-6-2012 by Yankenstein because: (no reason given)

I'm not against physical experiments, if these no-planers want to come up with the resources for experimental replication of the event in question, then why not?

But for most people, such an elaborate experiment is unnecessary. Close to 60 different video cameras recorded the event from unique angles. It was witnessed by hundreds of people and broadcast on live television. Photos of the impact holes tell the story from a forensic perspective. Additionally, when research physicists run the numbers, the math pans out. When computer simulations are employed, they show the same result, i.e., the wings cut the outer columns.

Physical experiments were done by researchers at both MIT and Purdue, but with other purposes in mind. Most researchers would rather not waste time and resources on experiments which will merely verify the obvious. There are bigger questions to be dealt with such as how and to what extent were the core columns damaged, what caused the collapses, and could it have been prevented, etc.

reply to post by lunarasparagus

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But for most people, such an elaborate experiment is unnecessary. Close to 60 different video cameras recorded the event from unique angles. It was witnessed by hundreds of people and broadcast on live television. Photos of the impact holes tell the story from a forensic perspective. Additionally, when research physicists run the numbers, the math pans out. When computer simulations are employed, they show the same result, i.e., the wings cut the outer columns.

Physics doesn't lie, but people do and photos can be altered. What is physically possible is what this test is about.

Physical experiments were done by researchers at both MIT and Purdue, but with other purposes in mind. Most researchers would rather not waste time and resources on experiments which will merely verify the obvious. There are bigger questions to be dealt with such as how and to what extent were the core columns damaged, what caused the collapses, and could it have been prevented, etc.

Please link the results of the physical experiments, I am aware of the mathematical models created by MIT and Purdue.

Here is a video wherein the Purdue engineers were put on the spot.


Here is a link where the construction of the wings and walls are discussed, as well as the basic physics, as well as the usual arguments of the true believers. MIT's paper is included with comments.

yankee451.com...

Originally posted by Yankenstein

yankee451.com...

Hey yankee, glad to see you back. Like the name. Did you bring your tap shoes ?

Did you find any proof that the tiny little fiberglass nose of a JASM can penetrate steel, yet ?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Yankenstein

yankee451.com...

Hey yankee, glad to see you back. Like the name. Did you bring your tap shoes ?

Did you find any proof that the tiny little fiberglass nose of a JASM can penetrate steel, yet ?

edit on 15-6-2012 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

The Jassm's nose would have shattered, along with the wings. It is the JASSMs 12 inch by 60 inch 900 lb dense metal penetrating warhead that penetrated some of the steel, but was deflected by others.

I've moved on, you should try it.

reply to post by waypastvne

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About 127 tons, whereas just the steel in the WTC was 250,000 tons.

You never responded to a post I made listing thousands of experts that don't agree. They're all professional engineers and architects.

How about the pilots that say a commercial jet couldn't do the speeds that were reportedly attained? You do know the guys that were supposed to have flown those jets weren't capable of flying their training craft very well don't you? You think it was a simple matter of sitting in the cockpit and turning the craft and heading to the towers? For a raw novice? That would seem to be a very naive assessment. Your posts sound intelligent, but your assessment is not.

Originally posted by lunarasparagus

Originally posted by Yankenstein
How about we do a test, like that done by Mythbusters?:

I have written to the New Mexico Tech Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center, inquiring as to the cost of a simple test. I don’t know whether or not they allow me to conduct my own Mythbuster’s investigation, but judging by the flurry of search engine activity they’ve already been very keen to investigate me. This video was filmed at their facility.

YouTube Link

youtu.be...

If Mythbusters can do it, why can't we?

That's a pretty cool vid. Not sure how it applies to 9/11 though. A car is not a box column. I read the article which, typically, makes some authoritative sounding assertions but with no attempt at backing-up any of them with reference data.

"Regardless what we saw on the 9/11 T.V. planes cannot slice through steel buildings like that in the real world. That sort of thing only happens in the Movies, but still the vast majority of the country believes it was real."

Really? How does he know this? He doesn't. He's using his no-planer "common sense"and nothing that actually involves real physics.

I'm still wondering why, if the aircraft damage to the WTC was so obviously impossible, there are no credible experts disputing it. It's not even debated among professionals in the field.

Originally posted by Yankenstein
reply to post by waypastvne

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About 127 tons, whereas just the steel in the WTC was 250,000 tons.

And how much does a tomahawk or JASSM weigh ?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Yankenstein
reply to post by waypastvne

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About 127 tons, whereas just the steel in the WTC was 250,000 tons.

And how much does a tomahawk or JASSM weigh ?

Well, as stated earlier, the penetrating warhead of a JASSM is 900 lbs. Tomahawks don't use kinetic penetrators.

Unlike the plane, the JASSM's mass is focused on the point of the 12 inch warhead, whereas the plane's mass was distributed how exacly?

reply to post by waypastvne

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You have no idea what you are talking about. Not in the least bit.

Originally posted by Yankenstein




Probably, but if you liked the water balloon analogy, you must have loved the head-butt analogy.

Just for fun lets take a look at the forces a 500 mph water balloon would impart on a plate of steel.

Water balloon: diameter 6" weight 4 lbs. velocity 500 mph or 733 fps.

Steel: 1 sq ft 1/4 thick braced so it won't move. velocity 0. (Impact area 28 sq in.)

Next you need an acceleration calculator like the one linked below.

www.smartconversion.com...



Step 1: enter 733 fps in the initial speed field.

Step 2: enter 0 in the final speed field.

Step 3: enter .00068 seconds in the time field. Thats the time it takes for the water balloon to travel 6". That is amount of time the plate of steel has to stop the balloon.

Step 4: enter the units you want your total in. ( I selected G's) and click calculate.

Total 33,503. G's

We have 4 pounds of water so we multiply the total by 4 for a grand total of:

134,012 pounds of force, from a 500 mph water balloon.

Do you think your steel plate will be undamaged ?

reply to post by waypastvne

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Nah, no more guessing for me. The crash test is the way to go.

Think of it, we could put an end to all this Truther BS, we could finally pull the country together to prosecute the War on Terror properly.

Once the wing cuts the steel columns in half, it's an immediate victory for truth. I for one will hang up my Truther hat and apologize to everyone.

Of course, if the wing shatters against the steel, then all the troops need to come home and we need to start trying our military and political leaders for crimes against humanity while we begin paying reparations to the victims.

Who's with me?

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