It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How Does Aluminum Cut Steel?

page: 65
13
<< 62  63  64    66  67  68 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by MikeVet
 


I fully explained what was impossible at least twice. It is impossible NIST employees could know the exact count of broken windows, because they were not there to count every window breaking as they were breaking. That cannot be made any clearer.


So you're excluding videos and photos as a reliable evidence source?

Fine with me, but then you get to play by these rules too. Don't post any more opinions on anything based on your analysis of photos and/or videos. The only acceptable source will be from someone that was there.




posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by MikeVet
 


reply to post by MikeVet
 


Well, since NIST report admits employees could not determine exact numbers, that means whoever calculated that statistical NIST number is making assumptions regarding the numbers they calculate.


Wrong.

They made no assumptions.

The windows that had smoke and/or flames coming out were considered broken. Those that didn't were considered intact. The ones that were obscured were identified as such and were given a column that said exactly that.

Again, no guesswork. No assumptions.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by Pilgrum
 


The steel tube-in-tube frames (perimeter support and facade) were both attached to the outside of the building. Links to articles I have placed in discussion, specifically describe that in writing, and show that very clearly in photographs. Each section of perimeter support stood three stories high.

Each steel perimeter wall section was three separated steel tubes fabricated (foundry cast) as part of foundry cast spandrel plates, three stories high for each section. The perimeter side of the trusses were bolted to those sections. Each bolt was a minimum of 2" in diameter.

Each brace on the steel wall support section was also foundry cast to be fabricated as part of the steel, and not welded onto the steel. The bolts holding the trusses were placed vertically into the pre-fabricated (foundry cast) brace of the perimeter steel wall frame.

By using the words foundry cast, that should clearly explain neither of the exterior walls were the gauge of sheets of galvanized steel used in such construction work as HVAC. I have also used the same words when describing foundry casting of the steel pitchforked shaped sections of the steel facade.


Wait, I missed this. Are you saying that there were 2 exterior walls?

No wonder I have trouble getting my points across.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:50 AM
link   
reply to post by MikeVet
 


You can convince yourself of that all you wish. However, your stated persistence, of your conviction, is insulting the intelligence of others who factually know much better than that.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeVet
Yes, NIST admits that they were unable to see some of the windows due to smoke.

So what is your point? That they are honest when they give their analysis, right?


No, it means they could not have done an accurate count.

Do you have any actual evidence of the fire causing the amount of windows broken as in the NIST report?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by MikeVet
 


You can convince yourself of that all you wish. However, your stated persistence, of your conviction, is insulting the intelligence of others who factually know much better than that.


So in your case, there's really no insult at all.

Right, Mr "the exterior of the WTC's had 2 steel walls"?




posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeVet
.Right, Mr "the exterior of the WTC's had 2 steel walls"?



So can you post actual evidence (beside NIST) of the window breakage, YES or NO ?


[edit on 30-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
No, it means they could not have done an accurate count.

Do you have any actual evidence of the fire causing the amount of windows broken as in the NIST report?


Only the windows that couldn't be seen were excluded from being designated as broken or not, and they were identified as such.

The broken and unbroken windows were accurately identified.

Yes, there's plenty of evidence. Here's an example - NISt sees smoke and flame erupt suddenly from a window on video that was previously SEEN to be intact. Logic would then dictate that previously unseen fire was the cause.

Or do you have another theory on how that could happen well after the impacts?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 07:56 PM
link   
How does aluminum cut steel? The same way a 2x4 can come through a block wall in a tornado or hurricane, the same way a piece of straw goes through a telephone pole, the same way common sense goes through some peoples heads. C'mon, people. It's a very simple phenomenon that even the ancients used to carve rock with brass tools. Add sufficient speed to any object and it will cut almost any other object. One day the future will look back on us and wonder how 9-11 created so many fools, not how so many were fooled.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 08:06 PM
link   
reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT
 


Your advanced studies in chemistry, physics, aviation and structural engineering was done where?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 08:30 PM
link   
Brooklyn Technical High School, U.S.F.,(GO BULLS), San Diego-Miramar College, San Diego State University, United States Navy> That's all I got. And you?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 09:07 PM
link   
reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT
 


Perhaps I need to qualify. By advanced studies, I am referring to an MS and/or PhD in chemistry, physics, aviation, and structural engineering. You were so assertive in your highly general statement I was led to think that you were going to use expertise to show us how anything can simply cut through anything else.

Are you prepared to show us exactly how any Boeing 767 -

penetrated two steel wall buildings,

continued through 3-4 4" deep reinforced concrete floors at least 12' wide,

continued on through all the resistance of doors, steel supports, and several plies of sheetrock/drywll, and possibly even decorative wall and floor marble or ceramic

and still manage to cut core beams 54"x 22"x 5" at the center core,

and do so in the middle of what has been asserted to be a fire hot enough to compromise steel?

And then please show us exactly how all that penetration and slicing, by any alleged planes exploding on impact, moving through all that physical resistance, while encountering fire, brought those two twin towers straight down the path of least resistance into their footprints.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 09:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeVet
Yes, there's plenty of evidence. Here's an example -


Do you any other evidence besides NIST? Since NIST has proven not to be the best to quote for evdience.

As stated most of the videos and photos do show the fires burning out well before the collaspe and only black smoke, meaning oxygen starved fire.

Reports from firemen making it to the 78th floor only reported small isolated fires, not the big jet fuel fires we were told by the official story.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 09:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
How does aluminum cut steel? The same way a 2x4 can come through a block wall in a tornado or hurricane, the same way a piece of straw goes through a telephone pole, the same way common sense goes through some peoples heads.


But its just to bad we are not talking abot a 2x4 or straw.

We are talking about an airframe and wings that are made from thin aluminum that even the animation from Purue shows is being shredded by the steel as soon as it enters the building.

Even the photos of the building show the wings barely made it inside the builidng.

Common sense and a backgorind in aviation tells me that you are the one that needs to do more research.

In the future people are going to look bcak and wonder how so many people could just go along with the official story without doing research to find out what actually happened.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 10:03 PM
link   


Reports from firemen making it to the 78th floor only reported small isolated fires, not the big jet fuel fires we were told by the official story.


Ok clowns - for the thousand time

78th Floor was a sky lobby - elevators and machinery took up most of the
floor space, most of floor was made of tile and marble which is non-
combustible. There were only two small offices on that floor limiting
amount of burnable material. 78th floor was at bottom of impact
zone - one of the wing tips smashed through the floor. Areas in front
of elevator banks were crowded with people confused by what to do -
evacuate or go back to work? Because of crowd large number of
casualties. Only 2 firemen made it that far - Battalion Chief Orio Palmer
anf Fire Marshal Ron Bucca. Floors above 78 were heavily involved
in fires from aircraft impact.

Is it clear now?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
How does aluminum cut steel? The same way a 2x4 can come through a block wall in a tornado or hurricane, the same way a piece of straw goes through a telephone pole, the same way common sense goes through some peoples heads. C'mon, people. It's a very simple phenomenon that even the ancients used to carve rock with brass tools. Add sufficient speed to any object and it will cut almost any other object. One day the future will look back on us and wonder how 9-11 created so many fools, not how so many were fooled.


C'mon people! Nothing funnier than someone with such a 'I know it all' attitude who uses analogies that are bogus...



How do tornadoes do some weird things, like drive straw into trees, strip road pavement and drive splinters into bricks? The list of bizarre things attributed to tornadoes is almost endless. Much of it is folklore; but there are some weird scenes in tornado damage. With a specially designed cannon, wind engineers at Texas Tech University have fired boards and other objects at over 100 mph into various types of construction materials, duplicating some of the kinds of "bizarre" effects, such as wood splinters embedded in bricks. Intense winds can bend a tree or other objects, creating cracks in which which debris (e.g., hay straw) becomes lodged before the tree straightens and the crack tightens shut again. All bizarre damage effects have a physical cause inside the roiling maelstrom of tornado winds. We don't fully understand what some of those causes are yet, however; because much of it is almost impossible to simulate in a lab.


Source

If it was so simple as 'speed' there wouldn't be any question as to how it happens, and it could be simulated easily in the lab.

So you are wrong about 'speed' allowing an object to cut through any object, that's a basic misunderstanding of physics.

[edit on 30/12/2007 by ANOK]



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 10:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by thedman

Ok clowns - for the thousand time

78th floor was at bottom of impact

....zone - one of the wing tips smashed through the floor......

Is it clear now?


Not really. How would you know exactly what was going on inside? Were you there, and did you see any wing tip smashing through any floor? Exactly how did that fiberglass, Kevlar graphite, and graphite in those wing tips fare when hititing two steel walls and 4" deep reinforced concrete floor?



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by thedman
Ok clowns - for the thousand time

78th Floor was a sky lobby -

Is it clear now?


And for the thousands time, the 78th floor would have been where the wing hit. Most of the fuel is in the wings. The official story also states that fuel ran down to the lower floors and caused large jet fuel fires

So again, if the firemen only reported small isolated fires, where were the big jet fuel fires the official story states was there ?

Is that clear again ?



posted on Dec, 31 2007 @ 12:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

And for the thousands time, the 78th floor would have been where the wing hit. Most of the fuel is in the wings. The official story also states that fuel ran down to the lower floors and caused large jet fuel fires

So again, if the firemen only reported small isolated fires, where were the big jet fuel fires the official story states was there ?

Is that clear again ?


um, im going to take a guess here...79th floor and up?

of course since the firemen didnt GO to the 79th floor or higher thats just a guess with no basis in fact



posted on Dec, 31 2007 @ 12:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by Damocles

um, im going to take a guess here...79th floor and up?

of course since the firemen didnt GO to the 79th floor or higher thats just a guess with no basis in fact


But the official story states there were jet fuel fires on LOWER floors.

The wing hit on the 78th floor, fuel tanks are in the wing.

Also that jet fuel ran down to the basement and casued the explosion in the basement.

[edit on 31-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]




top topics



 
13
<< 62  63  64    66  67  68 >>

log in

join