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How Does Aluminum Cut Steel?

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posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Why not? And at the bottom of the shaft would have been a service door so the fuel could have easily dumped out the service door.


Gee, there was some miracles going on that day.

Not only did the fuel happen to make it to the only elevator to go to the basement but there was enough to get there after being sprayed everywhere, burned off, soaking into the carpents and furniture. WOW


[edit on 24-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]


Well we went from zero elevators going to the basement to 1 !!! Isn't that a miracle too?

And I would hardly call plane fuel pouring through the building a miracle. I'd use the word nightmare.




posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 08:27 AM
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Nice find about the freight elevators. I could never make it through the NIST Report to find that info.

Also, there were express elevators that went from the basement levels/subway ramps to the WOW and observation decks. Makes sense to move the tourists right to the top, nonstop, rather than have them wandering around office areas I'd think....

www.pbs.org...



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:03 AM
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here is link with complete diagram of elevator system in the Twin Towers
(too long to post here)

911stories.googlepages.com...

There were several freight/passenger elevators which ran entire length
of building. In North Tower had passenger/freight elevators running
to the restaurant WINDOWS ON THE WORLD (kitchen was in basement)

South Tower had observation deck at 106 floor (been up there )

In North tower plane hit dead center and continued in the service core
where stairs/elevators were. Had number of people severely burned both
up near impact point and at ground floor lobby from jet fuel.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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Great posts about the elevators everybody !!! So it looks like the plane fuel could have made it down to the basement/sub floor levels.

Great Job !!



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:14 PM
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quote]Originally posted by jfj123
Great posts about the elevators everybody !!! So it looks like the plane fuel could have made it down to the basement/sub floor levels.

Great Job !!

This does not prove the fuel made it to the sub basments.

DO you have any actual evidnece of fuel in the sub basements ?


[edit on 24-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:20 PM
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At the link are the bluerpints, not just diagrams. The blueprints show the floor plan of almost, if not, every floor:

911research.wtc7.net...

911research.wtc7.net...

[edit on 24-12-2007 by OrionStars]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
At the link are the bluerpints, not just diagrams. The blueprints show the floor plan of almost, if not, every floor:


The blueprints do not show Sub level 6, where the explosion was.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


It has one through five sub -levels and core structure. Is six necessary since it is a sub-level floor plan?



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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I do not know if this is important for anyone to know for examining the twin towers on 9/11. No elevator went straight from the bottom sub-level all the way to the 110th floor. If people worked on higher levels, they had to keep changing elevators after reaching a certain number of floors. Until, they got to their floor of employment.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
I do not know if this is important for anyone to know for examining the twin towers on 9/11. No elevator went straight from the bottom sub-level all the way to the 110th floor. .


Yes, that what i borught up, that the jet fuel could not have reached the sub basement by elevator shaft because the elevators do not go from the upper floors to the basement.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


Quite frankly,I have no idea how much fuel could get passed the sealed elevator doors. Not unless someone blocks the elevator doors from automatically shutting. That normally is not done unless people are making deliveries, which are normally done through service/delivery elevators, particularly in ritzy buildings such as the twin towers. Service elevators are not normally mixed in with passenger elevators in those type of buildings.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
Quite frankly,I have no idea how much fuel could get passed the sealed elevator doors.


Well you have to remember also the buildings were actully like 3 sections put on top of eash other, each section would be sealed from the other to keep fires from running from floor to floor.



[edit on 24-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


Actually, they were not. The center core supports were each one continuous unit from the bedrock to the top of each building. I did previously post information on that. I was surprised when I first read it. I read it several times to make certain I was correctly reading what was written. Before the building was finished, one could stand in the at the bottom sublevel, and look straight up passed the 110th floor all the way to the sky, without the roof on.

Originially, I thought they were like any other box supports, in any other high rise or any two or more level building, placed on the horizontal beams between each floor. Not so as I was to learn.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
Actually, they were not. The center core supports were each one continuous unit from the bedrock to the top of each building. I did previously post information on that.


The center core might have been open but thier were sections to the building itself.

I believe they also made changes to seal up sections after the 1975 fire in the North tower, beacuse it spread through some duct work or utility areas.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


The center core did have use besides elevators. It held restrooms, maintenance and storage areas, stairwells and other designated areas no different than putting in office space inside the cores.

I am not certain what you mean by sealed off. May I inquire as to what you mean?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
[I am not certain what you mean by sealed off. May I inquire as to what you mean?


Well here is how the fire in 1975 spread.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The fire department on arrival found a very intense fire. It was not immediately known that the fire was spreading vertically from floor to floor through openings in the floor slab. These 300-mm x 450-mm (12-in. x 18-in.) openings in the slab provided access for telephone cables

The fire spread throughout about half of the offices of the floor and ignited the insulation of telephone cables in a cable shaft that runs vertically between floors. Commissioner O'Hagan said that the absence of fire-stopper material in gaps around the telephone cables had allowed the blaze to spread to other floors within the cable shaft. Inside the shaft, it spread down to the 9th floor and up to the 16th floor, but the blaze did not escape from the shaft out into room or hallways on the other floors.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:47 AM
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Edit for brevity.

Thank you for qualifying.

Fire can spread through the interior walls, which is normal in any building. The fire did get into the center core but only because there is a great deal of space between the drop ceilings in one floor and the trusses above, holding up the next reinforced concrete floor. In those areas, they could check not only the trusses, the other reinforcing steel grids under the floors (redundant steel), HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. but also the integrity of the center core beams.

It could not be sealed off or maintenance crews would not have been able to check integrity of the structure as regularly as needed. It is how they knew in 1975 there were no structural damage to any of the steel, including the center core beams because it was never sealed.

From floor to floor there was approximately 12' give or take. When the drop ceilings were put in, that left approximately 4' space for maintenance crews to crawl in between each floor. It was open to the center core and elevator shafts.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by OrionStars]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
Thank you for qualifying.


After the 1975 fire they sealed up areas like the onse mentioned to help stop fires from spreading.

They also started putitng in a sprinkler system because of the 197 fire.

Kind of interesting as long as this fire burned it casued no damage to the steel but the 9/11 fire that lasted less then an hour supposidly weakend enough steel to cause a collapse.


[edit on 25-12-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


I do know for a fact maintenance areas cannot be sealed. They may have placed removeable fire retardant somehow. Something they could move for maintenance purposes. I do recall reading they put in more asbestos coating in those maintenance areas on all steel. It may have been after the fire. Asbestos flakes very badly without fire so they would normally replace as needed. Could that be to what you are referring?

As for fire, some of the outlandish claims have always amazed me as well. The North Tower could have a 3 plus hour fire, described as a blowtorch type by the firemen, concentrated primarily at the 11th floor. But only have a cool fire from kerosene, claimed to bring those buildings down in far less than three hours based on a cool fire. Carbon smoke is the first clue a fire is oxygen starved, which is considered an extremely cool fire.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:28 AM
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Once again, black smoke does not automatically mean oxygen starved fire. Plastics and other items produce black smoke as they burn.

Here are some examples of fires that do not look like they are oxygen starved or burning cool to me and there is black smoke.

www.theage.com.au...

www.abc.net.au...

There are a few hundred more examples.



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