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Why do people continually give their money to the church?

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posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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You only have two options. You can give "Time" or "Money" since Money is just a way to keep up with your value of "Time" it's really all about giving "Time" back to society. There are many ways you can give you "Time" back.

If you decide to give 10% of your "Time" you earned from the "Value" you gave from your "Work" and give a church or non-profit "Money" from that "Time" spent, let's say, "Feed the Homeless", than that's your choice.

Or you decide to give 10% of your "Time" itself, go purchase some groceries, and cook a big pan of chicken legs, and then drive to the Homeless shelter, and work behind the line to actually "FEED the HOMELESS"




posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


How can I say this? You are wrong. Non-Profits are horrible at getting the money to the cause. Churches do a much better job of that.

There is a Myth about a bunch of good little volunteers running around working for Non-Profits doing good work. The truth is they are hired and paid, often well paid, for their work. With a handful of exceptions volunteerism does not work with one remarkable exception; Religious Charities. I won't even go into the Government Programs and how they waste money.

I currently raise about $500,000 per year for local Charities. I've also worked and volunteered for Religious Charities. You can not compare the two. Ask for volunteers from a Church and you get lots of willing motivated people. Ask for volunteers for a Secular Organization and you get a bunch of people standing around the first day and most don't show up the second day. They have no motivation. I know, I've done this myself. They will throw a dollar or two at you but ask for work or genuine effort? It takes the Community of a Church to pull that off.

Are you just unaware of the magnitude of Charitable Work done by Churches or do you have a personal bias against them? If you want the truth get involved with one and then you will know the truth. You won't find the truth here.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


dk.. that's a wondeful thing you've done and hopefully an example to others.. I've done the same thing a number of times in my life, though it hasn't always worked out for the best ( i've been robbed a few times in the process... just small things from the house), that said, you can't stop helping becuase there's a few people who may need your watch more than you!!... i also buy coffee and food for homeless people when they're begging on the street rather than giving them money (not always, but often) especially when they look like they have an addiction or substance abuse problem...

it doesn't take much to make someone who's down and out feel a bit better about themselves, and as you've suggested it can be of great personal reward... I was homeless once (by choice) and I survived from the help and generosity of people... i'd sing them a song, and they'd toss me a coin... everyone has something to share, as you yourself found out... kudos



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 

Talk about overly arrogant, could you be any more self righteous? How dare you pass judgement on millions of Christians becaus of the actions of a few thousand> Many threads speak about reaching higher spiritual planes. Wallowing in vitriol will only take you down. I can't describe the feeling of serentity and connectedness I experience while attending church. Nobody is perfect. No church is perfect and if you want to find examples of waste, fraud, criminal activity, etc. you'll find plenty. However there is much, much greater good than evil in the Christian community. If you look hard enough, I'm sure you could find a religion that speaks to you. God bless you brother.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
Well then doggonit, I'm going to return the favor! No no, I am glad to help someone who can't do a Google search or read a book. It's cool, really.

Ok based on the site itself I can only say "typical" but it isn't her personal wealth - is it? And i asked for proof that it was her PERSONAL wealth because it was stated by you: "Wasn't she worth about $40 million at the time of her death?". It is her institutions wealth and was donation based funding. The way they portray the amount is typical of propoganda against one religion by another. So what was she supposed to do with the money when she didn't manage it herself? Buy all the kids toys? Or retain it and use it sparingly as it is never known where more will come from when it is done? I will leave the rest to you to have your own opinion - you're allowed.


Oh, and then you give me a link to www.catholic.com. Hmmm, well here's a link from the European Institute of Protestant Studies:
www.ianpaisley.org...

I asked you for an example of an indulgence - that was all! Simple really. Have you read those pages? Ok here's a shorter one. It makes sense really.
here
So we can paste links all day and you still would not have understood those pages. No one is forced into

...giving a significant contribution"?
The church doesn't police anyone



What? WTF are you talking about here?

You stated:

Basically, what's more important to you, keeping a church running, or saving lives? And don't say that your church saved lives. It didn't save near as many as donating the money. It's funny that a $2000 water filtration system can save an entire village.

Well the way things stand there ARE churches so the point is, do we sell the churches and NOT KEEP THEM RUNNING and use the money to save lives? Then what? Sorry you didn't get it - i should have been more clear and that's my mistake. And yes our church didn't save any lives - the PEOPLE in the church saved lives. It's the people. A church can't visit the poor, sick and dying.



Yeah, I don't think I even need to touch on that one. Yep, too easy...

You are wise beyond your words.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I'm not sure if you know it or not but they are certainly not greedy with their money.
Once my aunt was in a bad spot and needed extra cash to pay a few bills and she called the churches to help out. Not only did they pay all her bills but they gave her big boxes of food.
This is what they do with your money, they help the needy and also use it to help keep the church going.

Thanks for your post DR!! This is what i have been saying. It appears the Catholic CHurch is all bad and they use the money to keep themselves rich which is so withdrawn from the real truth.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by ferrabi
well for starters the only thing the church needs to pay is for their utilities, i would say everything else is a luxury, because the preists get a salary from vatican, and the church doesn't need to pay property taxes.

What is a priests salary? Aren't they also lucky they don't pay property taxes? And who cuts the grass etc. So the priest gets his salary and pays water and lights and gas or whatever. Then what? He sits back and the church stands up to normal wear for hundreds if not thousands of years. Have you ever run a household? A priests Salary is between $12,000 and $15,000 annually. They ALSO donate from that to the poor. They buy their soaps, deos and food. They pay for their own transport unless the diocese give them a car and that is in the richer areas. Or they walk. When someone phones and says we need a priest at the hospital someone is dying the need to get there.



so perhaps the vatican can eighter directly pay for it, which they can afford. or increase the salaries for the priest so they can pay it.

I actually don't know how to respond to this comment but ok let me try. In NY there are more than 640 Catholic churches so lets say worldwide there are 200,000 churches so the Vatican must pay the upkeep on a monthly basis for all the churches? It is like a "business" every branch must be self sustaining. There are churches closing on a monthly basis because of lack of funds.

[edit on 20/11/2007 by shearder]



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by shearder
 


You are CUTE when you're angry.




So what was she supposed to do with the money when she didn't manage it herself? Buy all the kids toys? Or retain it and use it sparingly as it is never known where more will come from when it is done?


Uggggh, *shakes head again*

Yes, I'm sure the only thing she could have done was buy kids toys. I WAS thinking though that she could use it to prevent suffering instead of condoning it. This link describes it perfectly: members.lycos.co.uk...
Please take the time to read this, it expresses my point very well.

Here is a bit from it, just in case:


Mother Teresa's business was : Money for a good conscience. The donors benefitted the most from this. The poor hardly


And another:


Susan Shields (formerly Sr Virgin) says, "The money was not misused, but the largest part of it wasn't used at all. When there was a famine in Ethiopia, many cheques arrived marked 'for the hungry in Ethiopia'. Once I asked the sister who was in charge of accounts if I should add up all those very many cheques and send the total to Ethiopia. The sister answered, 'No, we don't send money to Africa.


Look, things are really starting to go a little crazy here; my point in starting this thread was to show that instead of the church or people spending money like this:



Assets of the Church:

US Christians control TRILLIONS in assets while at any given time 200,000,000 Brothers and Sisters starve.

78 countries each have Great Commission Christians whose personal incomes exceed US$1 billion a year.
Financial Fraud in the Church:

Annual church embezzlements by top custodians exceed the entire cost of all foreign missions worldwide. Emboldened by lax procedures, trusted church treasurers are embezzling from the Church $5,500,000 PER DAY. That's $16 Billion per YEAR!
[For reference: TOTAL Christian spending on foreign missions is only $15 Billion. God forgive us!]

Criminal penalties against clergy in sexual abuse cases now exceed $1 billion, causing a number of churches, dioceses and denominations to be forced into bankruptcy.



Wasteful Spending by the Church:

95% of all church budgets in the US are spent on our own comforts and programs. Less than 1% is spent on evangelism to the most unreached.



40% of the church’s entire global foreign mission resources are being deployed to just 10 oversaturated countries already possessing strong citizen-run home ministries.

More than 90% of all Christian materials are in English, but only 8% of the world speaks English.

All costs of ministry divided by number of baptisms per year. Cost per baptism in India - $9803 per person. Cost per baptism in the United States - $1,550,000 per person.

Every year the churches hold a mega census costing $1.1 billion, sending out 10 million questionnaires in 3,000 languages, which covers 180 major religious subjects.

91% of all Christian outreach/evangelism does not target non-Christians but targets other Christians in already-evangelized countries or people-groups.

Each year,180 million Bibles and New Testaments are wasted - lost, destroyed, or disintegrated - due to incompetence, hostility, bad planning, or inadequate manufacture.


We SHOULD be spending our money on this:



1/5 of the world is starving to death

1 billion people in the world do not have access to clean water

Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names

The lives of 1.7 million children will be needlessly lost this year because world governments have failed to reduce poverty levels

According to UNICEF, 30,000 children die each day due to poverty. That is about 210,000 children each week, or just under 11 million children under five years of age, each year

Some 1.1 billion people in developing countries have inadequate access to water, and 2.6 billion lack basic sanitation

Some 1.8 million child deaths each year as a result of diarrhoea from drinking bad water

Number of children in the world
2.2 billion

Number in poverty
1 billion (every second child)

Shelter, safe water and health
For the 1.9 billion children from the developing world, there are:

640 million without adequate shelter (1 in 3)
400 million with no access to safe water (1 in 5)
270 million with no access to health services (1 in 7)

Children out of education worldwide
121 million

Survival for children
Worldwide, 10.6 million died in 2003 before they reached the age of 5 (same as children population in France, Germany, Greece and Italy)
1.4 million die each year from lack of access to safe drinking water and adequate sanitation

Health of children
Worldwide, 2.2 million children die each year because they are not immunized
15 million children orphaned due to HIV/AIDS (similar to the total children population in Germany or United Kingdom)


And as far as indulgences go, you don't have to force them to make them think they NEED it, especially when you control their faith.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by shearder

Originally posted by ferrabi
well for starters the only thing the church needs to pay is for their utilities, i would say everything else is a luxury, because the preists get a salary from vatican, and the church doesn't need to pay property taxes.

What is a priests salary? Aren't they also lucky they don't pay property taxes? And who cuts the grass etc. So the priest gets his salary and pays water and lights and gas or whatever. Then what? He sits back and the church stands up to normal wear for hundreds if not thousands of years. Have you ever run a household? A priests Salary is between $12,000 and $15,000 annually. They ALSO donate from that to the poor. They buy their soaps, deos and food. They pay for their own transport unless the diocese give them a car and that is in the richer areas. Or they walk. When someone phones and says we need a priest at the hospital someone is dying the need to get there.



so perhaps the vatican can eighter directly pay for it, which they can afford. or increase the salaries for the priest so they can pay it.

I actually don't know how to respond to this comment but ok let me try. In NY there are more than 640 Catholic churches so lets say worldwide there are 200,000 churches so the Vatican must pay the upkeep on a monthly basis for all the churches? It is like a "business" every branch must be self sustaining. There are churches closing on a monthly basis because of lack of funds.

[edit on 20/11/2007 by shearder]


Good points. I understand what you are saying and i agree totally, that some local/small churches are having a hard time staying open. but do you honestly think that it should be funded by the parishes(don't know the spelling)? and because they do run the churchs like businesses it is only normal for them to fold. whether it is for lack of funds, intrests, attendance ,etc,

and their salaries are higher if you include all the benefits they receive, it is closer to about 45 thousand a year



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
You are CUTE when you're angry.


I am not angry
but thanks for the compliment.


Yes, I'm sure the only thing she could have done was buy kids toys. I WAS thinking though that she could use it to prevent suffering instead of condoning it. This link describes it perfectly: members.lycos.co.uk...
Please take the time to read this, it expresses my point very well.

It is an opinion. It is human to look at the what seems to be the bad side of people and not concentrate on the good. It goes without saying that we can sit and counter post links all day and never agree so we can agree to disagree.


Look, things are really starting to go a little crazy here; my point in starting this thread was to show that instead of the church or people spending money like this:


Assets of the Church:
US Christians control TRILLIONS in assets while at any given time 200,000,000 Brothers and Sisters starve.

US Christians, but i don't find anything that is linked to the directly to the Catholic Church. Another thing is embezzlements in the Catholic Church are by people "helping" or "volunteering". It isn't by the priests etc - who wouldn't notice a priest living the good life?

Criminal penalties against clergy in sexual abuse cases now exceed $1 billion, causing a number of churches, dioceses and denominations to be forced into bankruptcy.

Yes very bad indeed and i don't support those that do these things. But again, it is rife in any institution, religion etc.


95% of all church budgets in the US are spent on our own comforts and programs. Less than 1% is spent on evangelism to the most unreached.

No Comforts for the Catholic priests. So the assumption is it is other "Christian" organizations. Which we see all the time. Like Rhema Church in South Africa. People tithe to the end and Ray McCauley buys a house for 9mil. Evangelical churches whoooooo boy - profit organizations - yes sir.


We SHOULD be spending our money on this:

1/5 of the world is starving to death

1 billion people in the world do not have access to clean water

Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names

The lives of 1.7 million children will be needlessly lost this year because world governments have failed to reduce poverty levels *SNIP*

You are 100% correct in your above statement. But again, it isn't the responsibility of any Church or religion. It is the responsibility of the governments and the people. The Church, regardless of religion, can only assist or they may as well be the government. Now i know you didn't say it was any Church's responsibility but i was just giving my thoughts.


And as far as indulgences go, you don't have to force them to make them think they NEED it, especially when you control their faith.

Ok excuse my ignorance but am i misunderstanding your point or your idea of indulgences? In your own words, describe what you see as indulgences.

[edit on 21/11/2007 by shearder]



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 01:59 AM
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Am I misinterpreting the lack of a critical component to this argument? Is there a reason why the 'elephant in the room' is being ignored?

The reason why Christians donate to a Church is that the primary goal of any Church, congregation or Christian is the salvation of souls, not the temporal well being of our brothers and sisters here on earth.

That is NOT to say that caring for others is not a goal. It is arguably the most important goal after spreading the Word. But I don't expect the Red Cross to be engaged in the Great Commission.

To ascribe the charitable behavior of Christians to intellectual laziness is itself a form of intellectual laziness. Look a little deeper.

Maybe we should be asking 'does the typical Christian also donate to causes outside the Church'.


Eric



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


we are supposed to tithe to G-Ds church/assembly=representative on earth genesis 14:20----28:22---leviticus 27:30-34----malachi 3:7-12----hebrews 7-----how different people come across this info---whether by reading the scriptures or thru the church they were born into or thought might be the true church ---only the tithers could answer---------i tithe to an organization that i am not a member of but because its a law of G-D to tithe------the organization i tithe to is not perfect but its the closest to the truth that i can find and that is all anyone else can do -----seek for what you believe is G-Ds true church and dont worry about the tithe---its not yours anyway----its G-Ds and They will deal with theives that misuse that tithe and bless the tither anway as promised in malachi.



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


if you were G-D?-------------we've been given enough rope to hang ourselves with-------G-D doesnt force anyone yet to obey Their laws ---just to make choices-----good or bad---which we all will be held into account for------the job of the true church is supposed to be to teach G-Ds truth----which if they were doing it the way they should and if we were listening to and obeying G-Ds laws----then there would be no more wars or poverty--------between divided churches that fight over who will be the leader and congregations that dont read and obey what can be found in the scriptures -----we have the mess in the world you see all of our own making------adam and eve basically told Their Makers 6000 years ago to "hit the road" and let us live our own destiny and G-D has respected those wishes and will continue to until we get to the point of exterminating all life on the earth with our coming nuclear wars.matthew 24:22



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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I am not a mod, but this thread seems to be getting certain people a bit bent out of shape. The truth of this matter has been fairly well covered from all viewpoints. Each of us have given our opinions based on either our own experiences or of those close to us.

I am going to share another personal experience so please bear with me. In NYC about 18 years ago I was dating a man who was a former Jesuit priest. Skip had told me that that he wanted to serve God and that he did receive a "calling" and he shared his story with me- and it was quite a story! He dedicated his life to God and to the church and received much tutelage- he was well liked and rose very quickly through the ranks. Then he was approached by his Bishop, whom, after many months convinced Skip and a few of his brothers- that they needed further education, which the church was willing to pay for.

The church paid for his (their) entire tuition at Columbia University. Skip excelled at the studies the church required of him (them) which was Law. Upon graduation, Skip would become a player in the churches business affairs department- which eventually led to Skip's disillusionment and disenfranchisement of the church and everything in it and about it.

Skip spoke with great vehemence in that the church is not what purports itself to be. Leaving the church was not easy for him either- the church was very cruel and resorted to all kinds of tactics which included destroying his family which led Skip to go into hiding and move.

I was curious and fascinated because I at the time like so many was searching for answers- and the church claims to have all the answers through God- so I have done a lot of research and many different faiths. And speaking with someone who was well involved- well lets just say I am glad I came to my senses. As for Skip- to this day he feels that many things the church asked him to do which he did- like getting people to change their will and leave their legacies to the church are so hideously evil as it left many families broke and in ruin- and Skip who merely wanted to serve God- is now racked with guilt- but he does what he can for people in need. He remains a very tortured man and many of the things he was manipulated into doing he could not even tell me about- he only scraped the surface- which was bad enough- quite bad.

Now to take a man's divine contact, then turn him into a legal pit bull in order to screw money out its parishioners leaving many penniless, homeless and hopeless is not what I consider enlightened in any way at all. A man who once believed in the beauty and love of God and the church- who is now homeless, broke and scared to death of the evil in the church is about as cruel as it gets.

And don't give me that crap about "How dare you blame all Christians for that one bad experience" the church to this day will convert 10 out of 20 Jesuits into ball busting lawyers- when they came together in brotherhood for God and church.

Its a crock of manipulative crap and they are out to get your money and the "good" things they do are window dressing to pass the collection plate which is nothing compared to what they will do when they get their hands on your family fortune- even if its not much money- they will take your grandmothers house if they can. BELIEVE IT.

[edit on 21-11-2007 by dk3000]

[edit on 21-11-2007 by dk3000]



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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Why do people continually give their money to the church?

Because their brainwashed.



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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Emphasis.
Thats why, and that simple.

If your a charismatic, all the worse.
"Put your hand on the t.v. and send that check and your grandpa will raise from the dead, hallelujah." (I spent 3-4 years in a charismatic church..."God will bless you 7 fold, 100 fold, 5billion fold)

And, in the more conservative Baptist, "Your responsibility is to get your 10% anything is above and beyond.) Some people have nice checks and 10% or a large congregation goes a long way. Get me a church of lawyers, doctors, media producers...who dont only give 10%, but the offering as well, and see what kind of 'crystal cathedral I can build'.

I will say, that Im not against this concept.
The priest were to make their living, being priest...and who paid them? The people.

Makes sense if that is your belief system, and isnt that far fetched of a thing to ask.
If your a Christian, those preachers do need to be paid - and your money goes a long way to doing this. (or rather missionaries...who supports them? The church. From what? from their offerings to that cause. I was a missionary for 2 years.)

But, yes, it does seem over emphasized. It could be that its out of fear, and also just wanting more mucho denero.


Peace

dAlen



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by AlienADHD
"Why do people continually give their money to the church?"



..Because their Dumbarses..





..Or they cant do anything for themselves so they have to pay for it..that includes trying to bribe some type of God like figure to go to the promised Donut King..




You know I am sick of people like you with your demeaning responses about something you have no understanding of. Do you feel better now that you ignornatly insulted thousands of good people? Where are the mods when this kind of crap goes on? There is no place for this type of useless input.
Next time you feel the need to open your mouth and spew insults toward people you don't know, please take a look at yourself and your own shortcomings first. Sheesh, some people.



posted on Nov, 21 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


why would anyone assume that a church that manipulated the so called "holy" roman empire to do its inquisitions for it by crusades etc. and murder up to 150 million souls that didnt want to become catholics----why would you think that could be the true church of G-D ?the god of this world is satan matt.4 luke 4 and he has his churches and his ministers.2 cor.4:4 and 2 cor.11:14-15.murder breaks the 6th commandment and that church does not keep the 4th commandment.if anyone is searching for G-Ds church they'd need to seek one that keeps all of G-Ds laws.exodus 20 and worships at the appointed times leviticus 23------you will find no xmas/easter/ halloween/valentines etc. there.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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I give money to support my church. Taxes are high in New York and my church can't even afford to have the heating on every Sunday.

Things have gotten better, but still not completely.

It's not like I think I'm cutting God a favor or something. They're there every Sunday to provide me services in religion. I'd pay an educator the same if I needed it.

Besides, my church donates alot to India with the left overs.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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A. They're stupid
B. Buying there way into heaven
C. The church always said you should donate 10 % of income
D. ALL OF THE ABOVE




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