Ga. Boys Ages 8 and 9 Charged With Rape

Times sure are changing fast.. When I was 9 or so I was to busy playing with my friends, or playing with my Transformers!
Blowing things up with firecrackers, setting small fires was about the worse it got for me around that age.. But rape?
Gezzzz.. Whats going on at home with these kids?

Im pointing a finger at the home life.. Kids just dont learn how to rape people without being taught that in the first place..

My dad use to take me camping, and taught me how to start fires, and what not.. I took that with me and casued some problems in town.. I got in trouble and learned my lesson.. But it was taught to me by an adult..

Are any of you really surprised?

I agree, that what these boys did was appalling, but I myself am not surprised. With how society has plunged, I'm surprised they didn't beat her to near death. The images the media portrays as "Normal", are what our children see as normal.

Growing up, Children need role models. They look to their parents for them. If the parents do not provide said role model, then they will find them elsewhere. Whether it be in a book, or television. What they see on television, they become themselves, whether it be CSI, Cold case files, anything.
The problem here is parents neglecting their children, or the parents are bad themselves.

As for the investigation, the officers performing it should look into the background of the girls family. If the family is low-income, or less well off as the two boy's family, then the girl probably lied. Imagine the publicity, and the money from lawsuits. Two young boys raping a girl!

If the rape is for real though, then the boys shouldn't be charged as juveniles. Rape is rape. No exceptions.

[edit on (11/19/0707 by Hexidecimal]

What a difficult topic this is…

One thing I can agree with here is that this incident is very serious.

The first area of discussion I saw was what age should a sex offender be brought to justice as an adult or in some posts if age mattered at all? If you believe an 8 yr old should be treated like any other criminal, then should a 7 yr old?, or a 6 yr old? or a 5 yr old? Where do you draw the line?

The truth of the matter is as stated in some previous posts is that moral judgment and reasoning is on a developed scale ranging from different ages. Am I saying that an 8 year olds moral compass is far different then a healthy adult? ABSOLUTLEY. This is not an opinion but a well researched phenomena.
The second area of discussion is simply what should be done about it? Well obviously a psychiatric evaluation should be done on the boys. Are they mentally handicapped or experiencing other forms of psychological instability? From here you may have some choices on what can be done? If nothing seems apparent some serious interventions need to be put in place as evidence states that this type of anti-social behaviour can lead to even more and intensified pathologies later on in life.
Another discussion point here is which I find a little interesting is that some people believe that this is a first time thing or that our species is getting worse in regards to violence and other pathological behavoiur. Certainly in this day in age we have the technology to do more mass damage and destruction but from history we can simply see the tools have changes not the species. What we must also understand is that this is the information age and we can get information faster and spread it faster then we could have done before. So if one incident happens on the other side of the world we can get it just as fast as the person from the next block..

Great topic by the way.

Cheers

All I have to say is...........WOW!

I have been lurking on this site way before I started posting, and all I can say is.........WOW!

The entire ATS Network has had the motto of "DENY Ignorance" (I really hate to play this card), yet the majority of the response I read initially was to lynch these kids, with VERY little knowledge of the facts.

Whatever happened to Inoccent until PROVEN guilty?

Thank (god, satan, whomever) that Section8 could bring some kind of reasonable thought into this thread when he did, and thank you BenevolentTyrant for your thoughtful insight.

I am getting sick of media stating that people are being "charged" with crimes, and having those people being publicly "crucified" for crimes that they haven't been convicted for......

Case in point: A Childhood friend of mine: Nicholas Haley (sorry I just spent a half hour looking for links but since I have a crumby computer, could find nothing on local news sites in Portland, Oregon)

This guy was completely demonized on local news networks that stated (paraphrazing) "Nicholas murdered his infant through 'shaken baby syndrome'"

YET there was NO follow up (that I know of) that stated whether or not he TRULY WAS GUILTY! But I am stuck with the thought in my head that this childhood friend of mine is a fargon BABY KILLER.

So let me paint a picture for everyone

This is a real experience you will never see on the news or anywhere else because it has never been told before:

An eleven year old kid is hangin out with his eleven old friend and they are romping around the neighborhood having fun. They are walking by their neighbor's house, about 4 collective blocks away, when an attractive looking 13 year old girl starts yelling at them from across the street. Well being a couple of (11 year old) guys they give into curiosity as this attractive, older (especially if you consider what it was like being in 5th grade and having an 7th grader around is like) girl is yelling at them.
Next thing you know, she is grabbing her chest and inviting you over with the suggestion that you would do the same..... yeah they go.

The two eleven year old guys spend that afternoon kissing this girl on HER demand, and grow up just FINE, regardless.

BUT.......... what if that girl's MOM or DAD found out that this girl had been kissing and touching these boys three days later?????


Fortunately, for us, none of that ever happened. We grew up fine, or at least I did. But,........


.......What If??


DO NOT CONDEMN THESE KIDS UNTIL THE FACTS ARE PROVEN!

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Society in freefall.

I really have no hope for the human race in it's entirety.

I usually agree with you DFB and I always respect your words but here I have to disagree.
I have 3 wonderful, fabulous, beautiful children ( 9 yr old son, 4 yr old daughter, 3 yr old daughter), I am married to a loving exquisite man, we live in a suburban area just N of Atlanta. We live normal lives, we go to school, work, do our homework, make breakfast, lunch and dinner, read some books, brush our teeth and off to sleep. During free time, we play or have Arts and Crafts, do some chores, make some cookies, snuggle up and watch a movie etc.
This family is my world, I would die in an instant for my children as would so many parents and I would be willing to bet the families like mine far outweigh the ones who are on the 6oclock news. Yes our society has issues, lots of issues, but when I look into the face of my children I see the future and I know it will all be okay.
My son is 9, his friends come over all the time, not one of these boys have even an inkling of an idea of what sex is. All of them still believe in Santa Claus, they are all excited about that new Alien book at the libray or the new video game or pokemon battle, Have you seen that big comet?, uh mom is that a UFO?, When is it going to snow?, Can I get a Wii for xmas?

My point is this situation has horrible as it is is NOT the norm, which is why there is a news article on it, if it was the norm it wouldnt be news. Our society isnt doomed, we need some help but not doomed.

I also get pretty defensive when it comes to my children and their futures. I only want the best for them, the idea that society is doomed before they have even had a chance to flourish scares me to death. I just will not believe that there is no yin to the yang.
And in my opinion, the parents of those 3 little boys should be under investigation and chaged with a crime if that invesyigation turns up neglect o abuse.
I have a 9 yr old boy and I can tell you from real time experience the behavior of those boys is learned in some shape or form from the parents. At that age children are still being molded, they know what they pickup from others, they learn from their enviroments.
My son thinks all that is used for is peeing and I am just fine with him believing that and in Santa Claus for a bit longer

[edit on 20-11-2007 by SEEWHATUDO]

Well said SEEWHATUDO. I am still waiting to hear more from some folks that have a better inside scoop than I as the judge has issued a gag order for now. I can say that I wholeheartedly agree that these kids have some sort of neglect or abuse in their upbringing as children that young are like sponges and emulate what others do.

-B

Lets just keep pushing God out of America

Lets not use spanking the way our parents did

Lets not be parents at all but just roommates to our children

Or better yet,

Lets be our childrens buddies!

What a wonderful world this is becoming.....

This is my first post outside of the intro forum, so please bear with me here.

I read this story when it first broke & was shocked by how the media seems to be the ones serving as judge & jury lately. Without all the facts, how can I justify a set idea of what consequences these children should face for their actions when the action itself is not clear.

Several questions come to mind that I believe need answers before any judgement should be made on my part.

-Did it actually happen? (all we have now is the little bit of information the media is offering & without more evidence, this is going to turn into a he said/she said situation quickly)

-Who intiated the alleged act?

-Were all three willing participates to the act intially?
If this was the case, did the young girl at some point say stop & would the boys have the ability to understand that her saying stop changed the act to the crime of rape?

-What was the context of the conversation when the girl told her parents? Was she facing punishment for the act? Did her parents suggest during the conversation anything that might have influenced how she saw the situation?

-If no force is proven in court, would that not make the girl just as guilty of any crime as the boys? (maybe even more guilty since she was the oldest & girls mature emotionally faster than boys)

IMO, these are just some of the things that need to be addressed before anyone can start placing blame on society, the parents, the schools, etc....

I hope the gag order gets released sooner then later...as im axious to hear more facts on this case.

Wherever the truth lies in this story, its a terrible situation. Anything sexual should NEVER EVER be told in a same story inolving 8-11yr olds....whether its "willing" or "forced" or "made up". They are just children The 2 (age and sex) dont belong together!

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
Either way this is inexcusable and these boys should be punished as harshly as a typical sex-offender would be.

*sarcasm on*
Yes! They should be sent to the state prison, raped themselves by bubba, excluded from entering a school or living near one, placed on the state offender database, and possibly be made to have a green license plate on their bicycles.
*sarcasm off*

If we don't unscrew ourselves this will begin to happen with victims and perps younger and younger. What are we going to do, start trying 3 and 4 year olds someday?

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


I live in the west Atlanta area and have a niece living very near the complex. I would not swear by this but the talk in the neighborhood is that none of these kids are bad. The boys are pretty much your normal kids and as such curious and reportly, so is the girl. It was probably a case of the girl going in the woods with some younger boys that she did not feel threatened by, to experiment a little. It might have gone a little farther than she planned or not. It happened on Thursday, she even told a friend or two and she went till Sunday when somehow her parents found out. To get out of trouble she cried Rape, never thinking that it would cause such a stir.

I'm sure your a fine mother who loves and protects her children. However, if you think your boys are that innocent, you are greatly mistaken. It's no failing on your part. I hate to tell you but look at the media. Slick Willy, making it necessary to tell our 8 year olds what oral sex was, didn’t help. None of our kids, boys or girls, are innocent any more.

I was at home with a friend in a well to do suburb north of Atlanta, perhaps your's. His 2nd grade son came home crying. Two fourth grade girls had taken him in the girls room after school and tried to perform oral sex on him. The school administration would not believe it or do anything. Of course you would never know this because they wouldn't report it. That’s what our society has done to our once innocent kids.

Please believe me. I really hope that what you believe about your children is correct but if it is they are the exceptions. I'm betting your nine year old knows what sex is, he knows what else his "thing" is for, he has, at the very least, played with himself to find out and when he is alone with a friend, like under the covers at a sleepover, he's played "you show me yours and I'll show you mine". And you know, there is nothing wrong "per say' with any of that behavior. It's called exploration and it's one way kids learn. Our society unfortunately just has them doing it a lot earlier.

The best you can do is make sure your kids know you love them and that they can talk to you about this stuff. Hug them often and with G-d help they will come out OK.

im from Acworth too, and I heard on the radio that one of the boys dad is high ranked with the Acworth Police Department, and he is prosecuting his own son.

I have a hard time believing kids under 10 are capable of this, there is more to the story for sure......

Originally posted by Lonebear
reply to post by SEEWHATUDO

 

I live in the west Atlanta area and have a niece living very near the complex. I would not swear by this but the talk in the neighborhood is that none of these kids are bad. The boys are pretty much your normal kids and as such curious and reportly, so is the girl. It was probably a case of the girl going in the woods with some younger boys that she did not feel threatened by, to experiment a little. It might have gone a little farther than she planned or not. It happened on Thursday, she even told a friend or two and she went till Sunday when somehow her parents found out. To get out of trouble she cried Rape, never thinking that it would cause such a stir.

I'm sure your a fine mother who loves and protects her children. However, if you think your boys are that innocent, you are greatly mistaken. It's no failing on your part. I hate to tell you but look at the media. Slick Willy, making it necessary to tell our 8 year olds what oral sex was, didn’t help. None of our kids, boys or girls, are innocent any more.

I was at home with a friend in a well to do suburb north of Atlanta, perhaps your's. His 2nd grade son came home crying. Two fourth grade girls had taken him in the girls room after school and tried to perform oral sex on him. The school administration would not believe it or do anything. Of course you would never know this because they wouldn't report it. That’s what our society has done to our once innocent kids.

Please believe me. I really hope that what you believe about your children is correct but if it is they are the exceptions. I'm betting your nine year old knows what sex is, he knows what else his "thing" is for, he has, at the very least, played with himself to find out and when he is alone with a friend, like under the covers at a sleepover, he's played "you show me yours and I'll show you mine". And you know, there is nothing wrong "per say' with any of that behavior. It's called exploration and it's one way kids learn. Our society unfortunately just has them doing it a lot earlier.

The best you can do is make sure your kids know you love them and that they can talk to you about this stuff. Hug them often and with G-d help they will come out OK.

I can 100% say that my son does not know or cae at this point one iota about sex. why? Because I talk to him, we talk all the time about everything, I get interested in the things he and his friends are interested in so that I am able to keep open lines of communication open, so I know what my son is doing, so I know it is age apropriate, so I know the video game is not graphic and the website is not a pedophiles lair. I am involved in every aspect of his life, I am his mother and that is my job, I protect my child.
Has he heard the word sex? Yep, sure he has not only from school, TV etc. but also from his parents. Sex is not a big deal to my son because we dont make it a big deal in our home, my husband and I arent graphic in front of the kids but we also dont shy away from affection. We get an "Thats Gross" every now and then when we kiss but all in all my kids were raised to be open, honest and affectionate. It was and is hard work but thats my job as a mother. I am not kidding myself, I know what is going on with my son because I take the time and the love to be a part of his world.
This case is not the norm, 9 yr old boys do not rape 10 yr old girls NORMALLY. In the next 6 months or so I can see my son being more curious, beginning to explore more but I can guarantee you he will not be out raping a little girl because of it. Why? because I have raised him, I have poured my heart and soul into him, I have taken the time to teach him morals, love, and empathy.

This is a little off-topic.

I have noticed so many posts about the lost innocence of youth and "the good old days" when we all grew up. The "good old days" for the most part were bad, bad, BAD!

Many of the new problems that keep popping up are variations of old ones. Herpes, AIDS, BSE, SARS, bird flu, flesh-eating disease, antibiotic-resistant bacteria have largely replaced malaria, dysentery, smallpox, TB, VD, and polio. (And what of the Black Plague and the 1918 Flu?) Degenerative disease such as cancer, heart attacks, Alzheimers are largely the result of more people living longer. Do we want to retun to the days when Dad died at 45 from an accident in the coal mines (or at 55 from black-lung) rather than at 75 from cancer?

Innocence of youth? Don't make me laugh! For the most part, innocence meant forced ignorance and the "mushroom treatment", keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em BS. BS about life, death, love, sex, God, family, country, and all that. It's hardly innocence when an 16-year-old girl seeks out an illegal abortion to hide her pregnancy from tyrannical parents who never bother to teach her about sex. Alice Miller wrote a book about child abuse called "Thou Shalt Not Be Aware", detailing the intellectual abuse of forced ignorance and stifled curiosity. Now there is actual public awareness of family violence, child abuse, spouse abuse, elder abuse, incest, pedophilia, bullying, etc. If anything, all those problems not only existed in the "good" old days but were more common and more damaging. It's just that the ostrich-headed conspiracy of silence kept people from knowing.

Granted there still is the same old BS floating around, plus new BS excreted by communists, Hollywood, and academic pseudo-intellectuals. Hollywood has largely filled the propaganda vacuum left behind by the deflation of the mainstream churches. The closest thing to a Golden Age was the pre-1945 era where the general public had more respect for intelligence, creativity, and productivity; and where communism had not yet infected the academic/educational community.

More people are thinking for themselves, now. There are still the hordes of "sheeple", but at least intelligent freethinkers have an easier time of isolating themselves from the mainstream. Would something like ATS have been possible 10-50 years ago even if the technology was available?

How I prayed for such things as the Internet, home computers, homeschooling, special private gifted/indigo schools, neo-pagan bookstores, and the concept of neuroatypicality when I was at the tender ago of eight!!!

"Charged with rape" is quite the headline. I have point to raise from a recent Australian headline.



I think this headline is possibly a case of semantics. Of course it is easier to say the girl was raped by two young boys than to say they were messing around and poked their fingers in places they shouldn't. I think it's possible that this is what happened. She was digitally raped. It's much more sensationalist. It makes us red with anger and frustrated. It also sells papers.

Of course, not all the facts are out on this but it is possible that instead of what many of you think, this is not a case of intercourse without consent but more so a case of sexual assault? One is more believable given the children's development. Of course, both are unacceptable!

However if my theory is pertinent, isn't also this kind of reporting?

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO

It’s great that you take such an interest in your children and what they are influenced by. I’ll bet the parents of the four children involved can’t say that. If you are comfortable that your son discusses “everything” with you I am glad. However I did not accuse your son or any 9-year-old boy of rape, even the one that everyone is so quick to blame. If this were common it would not make the news. However, there is something in between a child being non-sexual and being a rapist. A BIG BIG BIG middle ground.

I am sure your young man is the exception to the norm. I’m sure he would come to you immediately if he was say, given a copy of Playboy that one of his friends found under their fathers bed. I know he definitely would want to share with you that he, alone or with a friend, masturbated while looking at the pictures. I afraid I have to admit that in knowing and raising boys, this is an image that I can not seem to get my mind around. Hopefully he will grow up and be the perfect young man you believe him to be. However, be prepared to support him, just like you do now, if by some chance you find out he’s really just a normal boy who like most boys, has not told you quite everything that goes on in his life.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


we live in a society where children give birth to children----the parents are both busy working and the tv and other kids educate each other when at school and after it is out-----if there are 2 parents left--- when they come home from work they are too tired to spend time with their children to educate them in morality------the schools teach how to have "safe" sex but not necessarily if its not o.k. to have sex if you're not married.ask the young men----would they rather have a wife that is a virgin or a wife that slept with all the football team ?common sense says a virgin is prefered?too bad parents dont know? or have the time to teach common sense.

Originally posted by yahn goodey
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

we live in a society where children give birth to children----the parents are both busy working and the tv and other kids educate each other when at school and after it is out-----

The parents need to keep their priorities straight. What matters more, their house and $2500/month mortgage, or their children? What matters more, keeping up with the Joneses, or their children? I know plenty of "dropout" couples who manage to raise children well (rather than throw them to the lions in government schools and private day-care centres) and live in good, solid, comfortable dwellings.

As for kids educating other kids in school, blame it on Dewey's "progressive" educational policies which governments really enforced starting in the 1930s and 1940s.

if there are 2 parents left--- when they come home from work they are too tired to spend time with their children to educate them in morality------the schools teach how to have "safe" sex but not necessarily if its not o.k. to have sex if you're not married.

How about teaching that all M-F genital sex carries the risk of pregnancy no matter the contraception method, and that the couple must prepare for this eventuality? And how about it not being OK if the couple is not financially ready to provide for children regardless of marital status?

ask the young men----would they rather have a wife that is a virgin or a wife that slept with all the football team ?common sense says a virgin is prefered?too bad parents dont know? or have the time to teach common sense.

There must be some common ground between virgin and slut. (And why the football team and not the chess club or Dungeons and Dragons club?) If I were a young man again, I would prefer my first sexual encounter to be with a more experienced older woman than a frightful virgin. I think this whole virgin obsession is a remnant from patriarchical Saharasian cultures that is long obsolete. Besides, how many women would prefer their first contacts to be with a nervous male virgin rather than an experienced older guy? Double standard!

When it comes to raising children, though, some sort of solid permanent relationship is essential. Not necessarily a church marriage though.

And yes, yes, I agree that modern society is all screwed up about sex. But to blindly go back to some Victorian paradise-that-never-was, that was just as screwed up but in the opposite direction, is no answer.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Ok... um, what encouraged them? Their not even in puberty yet! WTF is going on here?

A) They have no biological wants for girls yet!
B) WHO THE F**K put this sick idea in their heads????

Well, this is not making any logical sense at all.

I must investigate further.

reply to post by scientist


How does this crime relate to population size in any respect? Misbehavior isn't dependant on how many other people happen to be around.