The notion of Destiny

Greetings everyone! I have been reading ATS for a long time and finally decided to write. For my first post I would like to share my view of the Universe we are living in.

In this Universe there is no choice or uncertainty. There is no randomness but only cause and effects, factors and circumstances. I believe that everything can be predicted and put into equation with the right resources, down to the most meaningless events such as one scratching is head or simple thoughts.

Simply look at how the very beginning: the Big Bang. It followed a set rules of laws of physics, matter propulsed and cooling down, stars and planets. If a scientist was there with a supercomputer, he could probably have predicted what, where and when.

The creation of the Earth also follow same immuable rules, how life appeared isn't a random act. If a comet brought life to Earth, it was meant to, because what made the comet took off was as well a set of causes and effects, it's trajectory followed sets of laws and the Earth happened to be on its path.

Life and evolution aren't random as well. The composition and environments of the planet dictated what life forms would emerge and evolve eventually creating us, humans.

The human factor

Elephants have tusks, bears have claws, birds have wings and our main asset is our brain. Many believe that mankind has a right of superiority because of this illusion called Choice.We have to understand how the body and specially our brain functions. We are just a set of electrical and chemical reactions, again pointing to predictible cause and effect.
When someone "feels" like doing something, it is not a choice. Feelings are not choice but chemical events in our body. What triggers them are genetics and memories going back to childhood. With the right tools and data it is theorically possible to predict one's behaviour in any circumstances.
Simply observe your actions throughout the day, you will realise that you do things because of something. Even when trying to prove a point and do something irrational, that is only how you were supposed to think at the time, how your neurones are shaped and made you do this. If tomorrow you cross the path of a long lost friend, it won't be a coincidence, just that X and Y made you collide at this point in time

Everything that happens around us already exists and Time is still. I like to think of the snooker player with his computer. He wants to calculate where the balls will go after he hit the white, he knows the strength, direction, points of impacts and can accurately predict what the table will look like. It is similar for the Universe but with much more data to consider. From the very beginning of the Universe, it would have been possible to know that I would be here today writing on this forum.

I came to this conclusion after I realized that the Future can't be changed. As my name suggests I have some psychic gifts and can sometimes see through the window of the future. I will share my visions soon but on a different forum

Peace

reply to post by TheOracle

Quantum Physics is weird.

According to the presently accepted theories, the motion of matter is cannot be absolutely pre-deterimined, such as by using Newtonian Physics. Quantum scientists talk in "probabilities" when it comes to predicting how a particle will react when acted upon by another particle. This is called the "Uncertainy Principle".

For instance, If I hit a ball with a bat, then the bat will "probably" make the ball go the other direction. But quantum physics CAN NOT BE CERTAIN that this will be true. According to quatum physics, it is possible (almost infintely improbable, but not impossible) the bat will go right through the ball.

The bottom line is that (according to the the latest theories) physics can not predict with absloute certainty the motion of a particle. We may successfully predict the motion of matter a trillion trillion times, but there may be one time when that matter acts in a way that cannont be explained. This also applies to the chemical reactions in our brains (the "Human Factor").

And, according the quatum scientists, this is not a problem with our theories -- IT'S THE WAY THE UNIVERSE IS. We will never be able to predict the motions of all things, regardless of how much we learn about physics...there will always be some uncertainty regarding the motion of particles.

For what it's worth, even Einstein could not allow himself to believe in the Uncertainty Principle. His famous quote on the subject was "I cannot believe that God would choose to play dice with the universe."

Niels Bohr who was more accepting of quantum theory than Einstein acknowledged the "weirdness" of the "Uncertainty" idea by saying "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word."

For more info, look up the work of Werner Heisenberg and Erwin Schrödinger.

Here are some links:
Uncertainty Principle

Heisenberg's Principle


All in all, though, yours was a very thought-provoking post.



[edit on 11/19/2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Well, I have always been of the opinion that everything happens for a reason. This line of thought seems to fit quite nicely with your thoughts. However, I don't necessarily think that everything is set in stone, as you seem to indicate.

I think that things happen according to a set of rules that are wrapped around our individual decisions. Destiny only, in my opinion, exists if we choos enot to diverge from what path we are on. With every twist and turn, I think that "destiny" changes.

Now, if you reference something like the book of Revelation in the bible, I would argue that it is more of a warning of what can happen if there isn't some sort of a consciousness change on our planet. Looking at the state of the world a it preently exists, I would say that we are certainly headed towards some dramatic event such as the bible explains. Will it be exactly like what people think? I don't think so.

However, to say that destiny is set in stone is implying no free will at all. Of course, "free will" has always been sort of a wish-washy idea in my opinion anyway. So, you may be right.

Thanks for the answers.

We all have this skill of foresight, in theform of premonitions, precognitions, dreams or simple deja vu. What makes us see the future and why it seems to be unchangeable? Simply because the future already exists in a form beyond our perception.

And for quantum physics, I am sure that we will find out that it follows rules as well.

Originally posted by TheOracle
And for quantum physics, I am sure that we will find out that it follows rules as well.

Of course it does, but the point is it follows the rules of probability. It's not completely random.

Personally I think that the one out of a million time it doesn't follow the predicted probable path is where a higher power is intervening. But that's just my opinion.

I used to believe in destiny as well, but since I've learned about Quantum Physics, String Theory, and the possibility of an infinite Multiverse... it's opened up some other possibilities.

For example, what if we're not only creating the future with our thoughts, but the past as well? Though it's not so much a manifesting of reality, but rather "tuning in" to a particular reality (or universe).

And if you did have a supercomputer which could predict the future, then knowing the future you would be able to change it. This alone would require the existence of a multiverse.

Ghost of a Chance

Like a million little doorways
All the choices we made
All the stages we passed through
All the roles we played

For so many different directions
Our separate paths might have turned
With every door that we opened
Every bridge that we burned

Somehow we find each other
Through all that masquerade
Somehow we found each other
Somehow we have stayed
In a state of grace

I DON'T BELIEVE IN DESTINY
OR THE GUIDING HAND OF FATE
I DON'T BELIEVE IN FOREVER
OR LOVE AS A MYSTICAL STATE
I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE STARS OR THE PLANETS
OR ANGELS WATCHING FROM ABOVE
BUT I BELIEVE THERE'S A GHOST OF A CHANCE
WE CAN FIND SOMEONE TO LOVE
AND MAKE IT LAST

Like a million little crossroads
Through the backstreets of youth
Each time we turn a new corner
A tiny moment of truth

So many different connections
Our separate paths might have made
With every door that we opened
Every game we played

Somehow we find each other
Through all that masquerade
Somehow we found each other
Somehow we have stayed
In a state of grace

Rush - Ghost Of A Chance lyrics


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[edit on 19-11-2007 by Jbird]

From probability to certainty

I agree that the universe, on a macroscopic scale, is deterministic, that all events are caused and that free will is an illusion created by the brain. However, this determistic macroscopic universe is somehow the manifestation of a probability-driven reality in which events are not always predictable - a reality we are just beginning to understand (and manipulate). Somehow the summed result of this endless collapse of probabilities is a linked set of predictable events - this is the fundamental mystery of quantum mechanics, perhaps of the universe as we perceive it.

Unfortunately the events that comprise us remain as predictable as any other - they are caused, so quantum uncertainty does not create space for the exertion of will.

Then again, who knows what is the effect of probabilistic subatomic events in our brains?

I was wondering about this myself and I do believe that destiny is true. We also call it providence.

When you die, do you have a choice when or how or is it destiny? Even when you commit suicide, is that really taking your own life or were you destined to die this way before you were even born?

These are some profound question that I think physics/metaphysics can answer.

I think the answer lies within extra dimensions.

This is an analogy to set the premise.

Say you buy a toy and there supposed to be 10 pages of instructions but there only 3. With 3 pages you may be able to put together a "shadow" of toy that will work temporarily. Those instruction on those 7 missing pages still exists, there just not observable from the view of the 3 page toy.

This is sort of like us. We are put together within 3 dimensions within a universe that consist of more dimensions that we can't observe.

Like Einstein said, the distinction between past, present and future is just a persistent illusion.

I believe there's a fixed dimension of time associated with our worldline. So if you comb your hair in 5 minutes it has already happened in time. If you get hit by a car in 2 weeks, then it has already happened in time.

It's like everything has already occured in time and it's being played out on a classical level.

It's kind of like the Matrix, when they say you have already made the choice and the question is why did you make the choice. It's sort of like saying you learn from your mistakes.

Maybe you did learn from your "mistakes" and your future is played out differently in this dimension of time and that will be reflected in a classical way. Maybe you don't learn from your "mistakes" and that will be played out as well.

It's like Hawking says, real time and imaginary time. All of our choices occur in imaginary time but they are played out in real time.

I put mistakes in quotations because if this is the case then there are no mistakes.

I do think a higher dimensional being can intervene on our worldline and change time like Jesus Christ did. This is why we have A.D. and B.C. I believe Christ broke the veil of time and directly intervened on our worldline.

reply to post by TheOracle


i agree with the notion of destiny, that everything was predetermined, but i believe that certain things can make a change in the system. For example thing of inventions the tv for example, could a scientist predict from the stone age that we would create it, or that it would even be squared instaed of round. So perhaps once a species becomes as high as we are, using mind and choice instead of instinct, we are somewhat exempt from this destiny (i stress "somewhat"),

also what about people who can do what i can do - retrokenesis (changing future events)