Paramasonic group

The 96� in Memphis-Mitzraim is a good example of what we were talking about. These groups are what orthodox Freemasonry calls "degree peddlars'", i.e., scams.
When Masonry became wildly popular, a host of unscrupulous folks invented "rites" and "degrees", and sold these "dignities" to the highest bidder. Such organizations still exist....you can go from being a non-Mason to a 97� Grand Hierophant of the Order of Sirius in 15 minutes....and a couple of hundred bucks!

reply to post by Masonic Light


First of all the Order does exist and its according to Rojesmo system of Bavarian Illuminati and does have lodges and memebers out Spain and other countries just like my self and assure you I know that very well!

The second the freemasonry there is what is called memphis mesriem with 97 Degrees mainly in Spain, France and Italy so do not change the History facts it’s not only the Scottish or York systems

Third point I it does not matter what you think about the Illuminati Orden as fake or not it does exist and will remain and have its own system of degrees and when we say Para it means based on the Freemason initiation system but does not agree on the rest of degrees system and methods.

Finally for the Fees! I think its no hidden that the Ordinary (stone cutters) of Freemason Lodges take fees from there members to survive and continue and in fact they take more what they ask for on later stages IN THE NAME OF CHAIRATY.

Yes the Order is to teach cretin methods to improve the self life and not into ruling the world

I suggest you learn more before you Claim being a Masonic Light Bro.

en.wikipedia.org...

Frater A. N.
33rd and XII .'.IO.'.

reply to post by illuminatiorden


Anybody can put up a website, claim to be the Illuminati or the Rite of Memphis or whatever, take your money, and give you a membership card. That's not the issue.

The issue is whether such groups are authentic. They are not.

The Grand Oriente of France tabled the Rite of Memphis almost 200 hundred years, and it ceased to exist. Since that time, other "Rites of Memphis" have popped up, but they were not authentic. Ditto for all the "Illuminatis" and "Rites of Mitzraim".

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by illuminatiorden

 

Anybody can put up a website, claim to be the Illuminati or the Rite of Memphis or whatever, take your money, and give you a membership card. That's not the issue.

The issue is whether such groups are authentic. They are not.

The Grand Oriente of France tabled the Rite of Memphis almost 200 hundred years, and it ceased to exist. Since that time, other "Rites of Memphis" have popped up, but they were not authentic. Ditto for all the "Illuminatis" and "Rites of Mitzraim".

So could you tell us who is authentic?, not even mas:. have proofs of authenticity, they will tell you that all documents were burned, or what about the bible, that has been slaughtered by the church over the years, could you call it authentic?, if the first book published ever could not be called authentic, I don't know what could be.

I do not know why the real issue most be if it's authentic or not, if by authentic you mean that the members of this organizations are able to improve themselves and their communities, then I would call it authentic, but if by authentic you mean a piece of paper, I think you will get deceived a lot of times.

Seek and ye shall find...
F. Orior

Originally posted by orior


I do not know why the real issue most be if it's authentic or not, if by authentic you mean that the members of this organizations are able to improve themselves and their communities, then I would call it authentic, but if by authentic you mean a piece of paper, I think you will get deceived a lot of times.

Many groups allow people to improve themselves. If they do, then I give them a big thumbs up.

But that has nothing to do with technical term "authenticity" in Freemasonry. Here, what is relevant is not whether a group promotes self-improvement, but whether or not the group is Masonic. Yoga classes, for example, promote self-improvement but they are not Masonic.

They are indeed a legitimate Order, however one would have to check to see if they are formally recognized with the AISB. Both Spain and Solomons old Order are Baphomet worshipers. Both orders make certain you understand this at the beginning.

They are considered paramasonic but are not a part of masonry at all, just outside clubs catering to that sort of religion.

Most of the persons interested in these sorts of modern versions of the orders are also OTO members or Golden Dawn. I can say all of the folks I have met are fine people and see nothing wrong with them having their own beliefs.

Be warned though the dues and fees from spain are rather high for the average person in order to sort out some of the less desirable element.

Dues and fees for IO are average. They seem to have a 'right to bear arms mentality' rather than what you would expect as a source for esoteric studies. There again seemed like nice folks.

Keep in mind these are all basically esoteric study groups and your going to have access to only what they promote to study, so on the whole, many are very limiting as far as the volume of knowledge. This is why you see some members being members of several differing groups.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by Illahee]

Greetings Illahee


It seems that the Modern Gnostic Movement are the main one's to have received the Torch of the Illuminati, so to speak, from St. Germain/Francis Bacon and Cagliostro.

Are the Sexual practices of the Lodge you've referred to here as being legitimate, in alignment with those taught here?


Sacred-Sex.org



And can you tell us who are the faces in the Enneagram of you avatar, or what they represent?


I'm not very familiar with the it, but it seems that only the Higher Chambers of the Golden Chain of the White Lodge, such as the Gnostic Lumisials and the Naqshbandi Order of Sufis, are the only ones who hold the authentic Keys to Gurdjieff's Esoteric teachings on the Enneagram.

From what I've learned, most other groups who claim to teach the Enneagram of Gurdjieff, are only "New Age" charlatans.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I do not know why the real issue most be if it's authentic or not, if by authentic you mean that the members of this organizations are able to improve themselves and their communities, then I would call it authentic, but if by authentic you mean a piece of paper, I think you will get deceived a lot of times.

Do you consider John Yarker to have received the legitimate Egyptian Rite Degrees of Cagliostro?

Originally posted by Tamahu

Greetings Illahee

Are the Sexual practices of the Lodge you've referred to here as being legitimate, in alignment with those taught here?
Sacred-Sex.org

A. They are as they are. Remember no two lodges teach the same thing. They are not my beliefs or practices. I believe one man and one woman in the bonds of marriage for life. I have no interest in anything else even on a scholarly level. I do not however subscribe to any of those Gnostic teachings referenced.

Originally posted by Tamahu
And can you tell us who are the faces in the Enneagram of you avatar, or what they represent?

A. I cannot elaborate on that content, here.

Originally posted by Tamahu

I'm not very familiar with the it, but it seems that only the Higher Chambers of the Golden Chain of the White Lodge, such as the Gnostic Lumisials and the Naqshbandi Order of Sufis, are the only ones who hold the authentic Keys to Gurdjieff's Esoteric teachings on the Enneagram.

From what I've learned, most other groups who claim to teach the Enneagram of Gurdjieff, are only "New Age" charlatans.

A. It is neither a magical symbol, or other device. Its primary function is in counting and remembering parts. A close examination reveals that it looks very close to something you describe, but it is in fact a colorized scan of the original drawing that predates the so called magical symbols,numbers or practices. It is in the pre altered form and serves no other purpose than counting and descriptive memory.


I would be interested in your opinions via u2u. I think this is a bit deeper than just the explanation of the OPs invitation. If anyone else feels uncomfortable about the graphic, U2U me and I will remove it.

Originally posted by Illahee
I believe one man and one woman in the bonds of marriage for life.

In case you are under the impression that the teachings I've referenced here teach otherwise, I must say that they do not.

The Gnostic teaching in regard to Marriage(which is consummated by the Sexual-Connection between Woman and Man) is the same as that in the Christian Gospels:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Matthew 19


"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matthew 5

Originally posted by Illahee
I would be interested in your opinions via u2u. I think this is a bit deeper than just the explanation of the OPs invitation.

Thank you.

I've nothing further to add at the moment.

However, if you have anything else you would like to address via U2U, then please, by all means do.




[edit on 22-2-2008 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu




Do you consider John Yarker to have received the legitimate Egyptian Rite Degrees of Cagliostro?

Cagliostro's Egyptian degrees were themselves not legitimate. They were created by he and his wife, and were never authorized by any regular Masonic body.

However, I do not recall Yarker ever claiming to be in possession of those degrees (he may have, I just don't remember him doing so).







[edit on 22-2-2008 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Cagliostro's Egyptian degrees were themselves not legitimate. They were created by he and his wife, and were never authorized by any regular Masonic body.

Well, I'm still looking into researching this, but am also inclined at this point to agree that Cagliostro had in his possession all of the Gnostic "Secrets" of Primitive Masonry.

However, I do not recall Yarker ever claiming to be in possession of those degrees (he may have, I just don't remember him doing so).

I don't know if John Yarker ever claimed such either. But it does seem that he received Initiation from either Cagliostro himself, or at least from those who had been Initiated by Cagliostro himself.





[edit on 22-2-2008 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by orior


I do not know why the real issue most be if it's authentic or not, if by authentic you mean that the members of this organizations are able to improve themselves and their communities, then I would call it authentic, but if by authentic you mean a piece of paper, I think you will get deceived a lot of times.

Many groups allow people to improve themselves. If they do, then I give them a big thumbs up.

But that has nothing to do with technical term "authenticity" in Freemasonry. Here, what is relevant is not whether a group promotes self-improvement, but whether or not the group is Masonic. Yoga classes, for example, promote self-improvement but they are not Masonic.

First of all who said that the Order is a masonic group or has any operative connection with it?

In fact the Order in Adam's era tried to federate masonry, with great opposition of the U:.G:.L:.E:. and the French Orient. Nevertheless to say that Adam thought that masons where ignorant and didn't comprehend the real symbolism of it.

Adam Weishaupt was init:. in masonry after he created the Ill:. of Bav:. , also many groups from the ocult:. mas:., could not account their own relation to masonry, neither masonry could accept this groups because of landmarks.

So trying to establish authenticity to the Order by trying to determine if it's masonic or not it's out of order.

TAF,
F. Orior

Originally posted by Tamahu


I don't know if John Yarker ever claimed such either. But it does seem that he received Initiation from either Cagliostro himself, or at least from those who had been Initiated by Cagliostro himself.

That would not have been possible because Cagliostro and his associates were all dead by the time Yarker was born. Nevertheless, it is probable that Yarker studied Cagliostro's Rite, and there's certainly nothing written in stone that says an occult order has to be Masonic in order to perpetuate truth. I myself am a member of a non-Masonic occult body of initiates, Builders of the Adytum.

If this group is for real and exist in spain I wonder if they have branches in portugal if so maybe the police should ask them in they know anything about Madeliene McCann. Only joking (or am I?).