Can nothingness exist?

Nothingness exists when you die. When your brain shuts down, and your body can no longer produce thoughts, perception and realization of reality there is nothingness left.

At the end there is nothingness. Somethingness exists only as long as you can imagine, witness and realize it.

[edit on 18-11-2007 by Xeven]

reply to post by Xeven

It exists to the observer who sees the dead. To the observer, the dead is experiencing nothingness. The dead person itself doesn't perceive anything.

Nothingness is an abstract concept to imply that a person can only think of something in an abstract sense to imply that such a term as 'nothingness' could be thought of as being used in mathematics but as of yet it can not be defined. The concept of 'zero' was created. Now think about 'zero'. It means that there is not anything in a 'Set' of something elses that is and can not be a part of that 'set' of somethings. You can put all the 'somethings' into a 'Set' and then it is concrete in thought and exists. But anything else outside of that 'set' of something can not be evaulated. It could be another concept such as 'infinity'. Yet 'infinity' only means that it can go on forever because always 'something' can be still put into that nothingness but yet 'infinity' implies that at least there was something there in the first place to keep adding to - thus infinity is something to begin with. Zero is nothing to begin with because it is 'outside' of a set of somethings that is tangible and does exist. But the thought and the mathematics of 'zero' can still be used. If something else outside of the Set of somethings already existing can be found - then it was from another mathematical Set of somethings that really was found out not to be Nothing.

If nothingness could ever exist, then first you would have to define how long of time it could exist and how long it would retain its properties of 'nothingness'. It would be like counting from negative numbers through zero into positive numbers. Anti-matter would be that example. Anti-matter can exist, and so does matter. Now try and define at what point in space and what point in time that anti-matter turns into matter or the Set of antimatter and the set of matter. That would be again 'zero' and as far as you can tell about the properties of zero - that again it is not an either mathematical set. But still in computers it can be used and still in math it can be used because 'zero' is still contained and still has properties that define the concept. Same way with nothingness. It can be used, it is abstract (without form) and still can be thought of - but as of yet - you really have no means to ever make it something that exist in its own mathematical Set except only 'something' in its own mathematical Set that can only be part of its own Set. It can not be added to or subtracted to or anything else be put into that mathematical Set called Nothingness. It can be used though and that is about all anyone in a set of something can define it as. The same with the concept of zero. In computers it is used to mean 'off' or 'false' or something that is not flowing as in an electric current or a light switch waiting to be turned on and the electrical field potential flowing. Nothingness can only exist if something does exist. Nothingness can only be a 'derived' concept because 'something else' does exist. Otherwise by its self or even with zero, it can only be an Abstract Concept because 'something else' makes it a viable concept that can be used as a Passing Point of between different somethings that may exist but not have quite the same Properties such as Integers, Floating Point Numbers, Transendental Numbers or Imaginery Numbers. But you could never define that Passing Point because you could never define its Properties because if you could define it then it became something. It may be implied that it could retain a Property of 'Potential' but then a 'Potential' is actually something that does exist so again 'nothingness' eluded a definition that could be defined as being something 'concrete'. The nothingness stayed in the realm of the 'abstract' and only contains a Property that may be called the 'imagination'. Thus there is no language or anything that can exist of something that can define it. Usually referred to as a 'void' because like in computer programming, it returns 'nothing', but still can be used to denote a change of one computer program starting up another computer program that took over then. As someone else wrote in book about 'Proabilities' and gamblin' and games such as that:

How long can 'nothing' exist? You actually can not really give it a time for time has no meaning in 'nothing' or anything else. You could say that 'nothing' could exist forever, or that 'nothing' can only exist for so short a time that by the time you could even think of measuring it or proving that it did exist, something was Created, and then 'nothingness' was gone. It was fleeing away at you but then you could not even see that it was in the first place. It was a concept so empty that it could not even exist, but as of yet, only as an abstract concept to denote something other than what does exist.

Kind of like chasing your arse around in a circle. You can never completely turn around enough to ever catch up with your own arse no matter how hard you try. You can sit down and bend over enough perhaps to kiss your own arse, but then who would actually want to do that because that would be really weird and strange to other people. Nothingness is then a joke that as of yet does not exist because actually no one thought that it was a joke except you. Thus it retained its Property of Nothing because in the minds and brains of others, they just thought that the joke was not really defined as a joke at all. Nothingness can have all the Propeties of anything that can exist, but as yet, you could never prove any of it ever.

But still a person can write quite a bit about 'nothingness' yet the concept is still totally undefined in the end, and it was just words typed in a post that made you probably think of doing something else that did exist and not ending up reading all the gobblygook taking up your time reading it. Thus as least, perhaps you even had some sort of feeling or emotion about how 'nothingness' can even have that Property if you so choose, but as yet - can not fully imagine it completly or make any sense of its real meaning in the end. Nothingness is not even a ghost image of anything that can be thought of, for the imagination can not put anyone that far into a Twilight Zone to even begin to think that it can have any Property you can attach a meaning to.

Originally posted by hollyjo
energy can neither be created nor destroyed... right?

so we are, or we aren't.

it is, or it ain't.

everything or nothing
all or none

but doesn't that still make one?

..that's what catches me.

you mean matter. matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in its' composition. for instance, you can't destroy water, only change its' composition from liquid to gas or to solid.

Originally posted by Xeven
Nothingness exists when you die. When your brain shuts down, and your body can no longer produce thoughts, perception and realization of reality there is nothingness left.

At the end there is nothingness. Somethingness exists only as long as you can imagine, witness and realize it.

[edit on 18-11-2007 by Xeven]

Really, how did you find this out? lol..

Nothingness is a somethingness. Since you can label nothingness it is not nothingness but somethingness. So anything we can talk about cannot be a nothingness.

"The void is no mere emptiness, but is real, free and existing. It is the source from which all things arise and return. It cannot be seen, touched or known, yet it exists and is freely used. It has no shape, size, colour or form, and yet all that we see, hear, feel and touch is "it". It is beyond intellectual knowing and cannot be grasped by the ordinary mind. When we suddenly awake to the realization that there is no barrier, and has never been seen, one realizes that one is all things, mountains, rivers, grasses, trees, sun, moon, stars, universe are all oneself. There is no longer a division or barrier between myself and others, no longer any feeling of alienation or fear. Realizing this, results in true compassion. Other people and things are not seen as apart from oneself, on the contrary, as one's own body."

Bruce Lee

Nothing exists, we are what we imagine we are

I was just reading this:

It is important to note that the universe does not distinguish between positive and negative thoughts. For example, if one is a strawberry milk shake aficionado, and really, really wants (needs, from the very bottom of the heart) a strawberry milk shake... the universe will provide one. But, if one -- perhaps for dietary purposes -- is attempting with all one’s mental and emotional strength not to have a strawberry milk shake, the universe will nevertheless provide one. The universe simply does not understand “no”

here

and I remembered this thread.

I trust you will see the relevance of it by yourself.
(After all, "no" is, in this particular context and as evident from the text, a significator of "nothingness".)

And if it is true - it definitely is the psychology of the unconscious for example - then one could (indeed, should) ask oneself: why is it that the universe "does not understand NO"...






[edit on 18-11-2007 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Xeven
Nothingness exists when you die. When your brain shuts down, and your body can no longer produce thoughts, perception and realization of reality there is nothingness left.
[edit on 18-11-2007 by Xeven]

Based on your authoritative tone, I gather that you are a very experienced dier...? ; )

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
[The dead person itself doesn't perceive anything.

And the same question (see my previous post) goes to you, too... : )


P.S. Based on millenia of empiric evidence - including, very conspicuously, modern "science" - the brain in itself has very little to do with consciousness as observed AND nothing do with the consciousness of the dying - correction: dead - person.

For more on that see, e.g., the research by dr. Pim van Lommel (AND a myriad other researchers).

This

is just one example.

There are countless others, of course.










[edit on 18-11-2007 by Vanitas]

Nothingness exists when nothing is there to perceive. If the universe was here but nothing to perceive it existing; the universe would not exist. I hated my philosophy class for these types of questions.

hmm i guess 'nothing' can't exist then.
Can any one even imagine what 'nothingness' looks like? I can't
Perhaps it's like your memory being erased and you try to remember.

This whole thread is good for nothing. What I mean to say it, there is nothing going on here. I have nothing to say. Nothing was accompished, and nothing will be done about.

reply to post by TheoOne


MAYBE. If that turns out to be the case, we'll never know it.

Originally posted by AncientVoid
Can someone help me understand the concept of nothingness existing?
How can nothingness exist?

We've all been duped! He knew the answer all along! He's AncientVoid. How come a void can be ancient and can talk? A void can't talk, a void doesn't exist. Let's get him everyone!!!

is there anything more exciting than academic paradox 101?

yawn.

en.wikipedia.org...

No, 'nothing' doesn't exist.

It is a big conceptual stumbling block when peopel think about the existance of God. Once you have agreed that 'nothing' doesn't exist, you are open to understanding that God is everything.

The most profound statement with the most far-reaching spiritual consequences is that God is everything and Nothing doesn't exist.

It's kind of like asking someone "What are you thinking about" and they reply "Nothing." The only thing a human can't do is not think.

It's a double negative. In the same way that two negative numbers make a positive number. Nothingness can't not exist because for 'nothing' to exist or not exist, there must be nothing there in the first place, but of course if nothing is there then it exists and must be something.. make sense?

[edit on 19-11-2007 by fiftyfifty]

I think the best explanation I found here, in this thread, is that nothingness is actually everything.

Many spiritual thinkers say that everything started out of the void. Well, how can nothingness create? Or exist? It has to be everything in order to create. And nothingness is infinite. Thus, what it creates (Universes, worlds) is just a part of it since the whole is infinite.

That is why when you explore the Universe, you seem to find no end to it. If you were to know and be everything, then you would be infinite and nothingness. With no limits. Nothingness has no limits, there is no constrain. What creation actually is, well it is limits. When you create an Universe you put limits in the infinity.

So I guess, our world is a small part of the infinite, since we have limits. Nothingness is that place that has no limits and no need for creation. Since creation makes limits. So nothingness has no time, space, anything since time or space is a limit.

That is why from our prespective nothigness should not exist since, our limit, called time, does not exist there. But actually that place exists, just that it has no limits. Right now we can't see or understand a place with no limits. Imagine living in a world without time.

There is this saying that if you can imagine something then it can exist. So that makes nothingness possible. Some say imagination and intuition are divine and part of the infinite since these things have no limit.