One part of your speech caught my attention, Savonarola, the part about the fundies saying that a super-great guy like Ghandi going to Hell.

God says our good works are nothing more than dirty rags to Him. We think somebody is a great guy, but we can't even begin to understand true righteousness.

The Question is simple, and it isn't a "fundie" question, but one straight from the book. Did Ghandi acknowledge to the Creator that he is unworthy, did he repent of his sins and ask forgiveness and did he ask Christ to be his personal Savior as he can't pay the price on his own?

If you are a Christian you know that this is the narrow path to salvation. If you are a Christian, you should know enough to know that there is no other way. If you have heard of Christ and have turned Him away, then you are doomed, according to Christianity. If you have never heard the Word, yet you know there is a Creator that is responsible for this universe and try your best to abide by the built-in understanding of right and wrong, then you will be judged by that.

To answer the question, Toltec, nobody killed Christ. He laid down His life as a sacrifice for us. No greater love can one have than to die for another.
Oh, I see that is a click-through. Gotta go check it out. You usually have good info to bring to the table!!

Here is the problem Thomas mind you I am being honest. Some well thought out alternative history does exist which does present motivation for thinking otherwise.

And in respect to this issue of laying down your life for another, that is how the Romans felt about suicide???

Thomas, if the Talmud presents the Lords Prayer and Jesus recited it (in his own way) Then the only other question that comes to mind is why are there no Judges of Israel in the days of Jesus Christ?

What happened to them Thomas? Where did they go? Where in the bible or in any other record of history is an explanation for their demise as a part of Israelís history and culture?

I understand your Faith Thomas and I do respect it, please understand my Intent

First of all, the beast and the mark is the micro chip implant which
have been talked about at nwo meeting for population control.

So yes it will unfold before your eyes because they are already planning this, it will replace money, all
will have to take it because of safety control.

this is why this situation of terrorist is happening (now), we have the technology and we will
all have to take this for security, or population control.

Bird when you see commercials for this know what has been said here.


Also, the world is getting far worse and sinful.

How can you sit here and say the world is getting better when you see the immorality level this high??


basicaly technology willl destroy us all, because we will not stop until we have created weapons that will destroy
the whole world. Combine that with the evil men in government and you have destruction.

You really cant see this byrd?

You may think we are safe and more peacful, but that is a bunch of nonsense. I have never itnessed more hate,
more immoral sick behaviour in my life.

50 years ago would you ever image there would be a website called MBLA...

man boy love association ??

This kind of immorality is heading into the cultrue and you still cannot see this??

50 years ago if this would be an outrage! But today we llive in a free speach, free acting anyway you want culture.


It makes me sick, yet you like this new world?

We are getting far worse in morality, and better in riches and fame and pleasure ect..

when those things mean nothing compared to eternity.

We will destory ourselves by hate, evil, (technology), it is bound to happen.

still you cannot see the force of satan heading this world??

simply amazing.

Now on to leviticus.

This is a classic mis interpretation by protestant mistranslation of scripture.

(NO) where in the bible is slavery allowed to control another human without care
as if they were animals.

see when you add qoutes, you should add the previous and following qoutes and not just pick and
choose what you want to pick out of scripture that (fits) you agenda.

now i will explain.

basically the whole leviticus 25 chapter talks about the jubilee and the law of the seventh
and the fiftieth year of the jubilee and how you can buy and hire workers to sow the field and sell
the product of the fields.

also god mentions the servants as the men of israel, the same men whom byrd says
are the slaves of men god calls the men of israel.


ill only give a couple of verses here.


25:35

" If thy (brothers) be impoverished, and week of hand, and thou recieve him as
a stranger and sojourner, and he live with thee, take not (usury) of him no more
than (thou) gavest: (fear) thy God, that thy (brother) may live with thee.


25:37

" Thou shall not give him thy (money) upon usury, nor exact of him any icrease
of fruits "

" if thy brother constrained by poverty, sell himself to thee ( meaning as worker ), thou shall not oppress
him with the service of bondservant "

"" But he shall be as a (hireling), and a sojourner: he shaall ((work)) with thee until
the year of the jubilee ""


25:41

"" and afterwards he shall go out with his children, and shall (return) to his
kindred and to the possession of his fathers ""


"" His wages being allowed for which he served before: he shall (not) afflict him violently in
thy sight ""

"" and if by these means he cannot be redeemed, in the year of the jubilee
he shall go ((out)) with his children ""


" for the children of israel are my (servants), who i brought out of israel ""


so he was not talking about a slavery which you talk about where they beat and wip and treat them like
animals and if you would read the ((whole)) chapter you would find this out too.

the whole chapter is about the jubilee and the workers.


Byrd, im telling you, jesus is the lord, you may not believe, but this stuff will and is happening
and he has provided enough miracles for the whole world to believe, yet we are still ignorant non believers.

why??

I have witnessed miraces of this man in the name of this man.

fatima, lasalett, many miracles of christ and we still embrace paganism??

A religion that has no baises to it other tha the worship of self power and idols??

the pagaan religion was born out of (pride) in self being.

It is false and you will see this one day.

peace.

Great site, Toltec, I'm printing it out for some Christians at work to read as they think I pull stuff out of my butt about Easter and Christmas and all.

As far as what the Romans thought of suicide, I'm pretty sure they didn't understand what was going on and what Christ was all about. If they and everyone else knew who He was and what he was I'd imagine they'd have dropped to their knees.

Israeli judges? Rome had dominated the area at the time. They were in control of everything. Even the Jewish religious leaders were lapdogs to the Romans.

Truth, I could show you as many miracles from other religions (including the Bah'ai) and I doubt you'd be convinced to suddenly change religions.

No, I'm not going to suddenly change my mind and believe in that deity of yours.

And let me address the "the world is getting worse" stuff. I can see that you're someone who would want the world to return to the way it was in 10 AD or perhaps 300 BC.

So, this means the world IS getting worse because your deity's laws are being ignored and overturned. Just to refresh your memory, some of the laws we've overturned that your deity has been FOR are:

stoning people for adultery
Burning pregnant prostitutes (Genesis 38:24 )
beating your slaves to death as long as they live a day after the beating (Exodus 21:20-21 )
executing people whose animals (or cars, presumably) kill another person (Exodus 21:28 )
exectuting non-Christians/non-Jews (Exodus 22:20)
barring handicapped people from church (Leviticus 21:16-23 )
shoving people with diseases out of your cities and camps and leaving them to die (Numbers 5:1-4 ) rather than treating them.
stoning people for working on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36)
killing the people in nearby cities who don't worship your deity (Deut 13:12-16) (you're missing out on a sure thing by not running amok in Los Angeles, I think.)
And let's not forget the mandates to execute those prosteletyzing Mormons (Deut 13:6-10 )
And how about our turning away from the old divorce practice: the man sends the woman away and then the father has to come up with proof that the daughter was virgin when she married. If her father can't prove it, then she will be stoned to death on his doorstep. This ends the divorce settlement problem as well as the child support problems (deuteronomy 22:13-21 )
stoning child victims of pedophiles because they didn't scream loudly enough for help or were frightened into silence (deuteronomy 22:23-24)
believing in the "divine right of kings" which means America is indeed condemned because she revolted against England and her divine King, George IV. (1 Peter 2:17)
NOT helping those women who are widowed (no matter their age or condition unless they've raised kids AND are over the age of 70 AND have housed strangers in their houses AND have "washed the feet of saints." No excuses allowed for the small number of saints (1 Timothy 5:9-15 ) The rest of the widows can fend for themselves.
not allowing women to speak in church or other areas (Corinthians 14:34-35 )
not suing anyone who claims to be a Christian (Corinthians 6:6-7) (we all know how often this gets broken!!)
not accusing your fellow Christians of any wrongdoing (Romans 8:33 )
not mutilating yourself for your sins (those of you who have hit porn sites need to go out now and cut off your fingers. Or gouge your eyes out. or both.) (Mark 9:43-49 )


...and so on and so forth. The list runs to hundreds of laws that, yes, society HAS looked at and HAS said "wowsers. That's just unjust. I don't care what any deity thinks, the stoning of little girls for not reporting rapes because they were threatened by a big child molester is just Not Right."

I'll be brutally honest: these are YOUR deity's commands. Reinstating them may indeed make the world a place that YOUR deity loves and will turn away his wrath from.

I think your deity's got to brace himself for even more of his commandments being broken in the near future. Society seems to have lost its' taste for stoning, beating, brutality, and favoritism to the Elect.

The Ten Judges of the Ten Tribes Israel decided the fate of those accused on crimes in that country. They were the cornerstones of the system of justice for the Israeli Empire. They were also the ones trusted with the knowledge and understanding to handle and wield the Ark of the Covenant. In relation to their religious affiliation they were Essene/Quabalist. There was an institution, which educated and supported the membership.

As you say the Romans were in control and so very likely, since there is no mention of them in the New
Testament they were probably wiped out. As well with the destruction of the institution was much of the knowledge that went into how the Ten Judges of Israel functioned. But from my understanding, as well as the fact Jesus promoted the Lords Prayer they had not totally been wiped out of the social consciousness of Israeli society. It does seem apparent though that they had been deleted from social awareness to an extent
That non-to date has contemplated Jesus as a man prepared to reinstate that system of justice.

Raising the Dead is something, which could be misconstrued as a weapon (bringing soldiers back to life). Add to that the issue of Jesus promoting an institution, which was in fact, a military/law enforcement agency and one has an explanation why Jesus would have been considered a threat to the Roman Empire (even before he was born).

Thomas the Talmud is (from my understanding) something which should be a part of the Christian bible
As Jesus himself quoted from text extremely relevant to this book. As well should be taken into consideration the fact that the Romans did everything they could to remove from the social awareness Of Israeliís in that time period the idea that their cultural heritage included specific information in relation to their common defense.

What are your thoughts?

those miracles are not miracles byrd, im talking about specific miracles which
had to do with jesus, like the shroud, the stigmatas, the fatima miracles which 70,000
witnessed, the men praying the rosary living through a bomb, padre pio
curing a blind women with no pupils.

Specific miracles god has given to the race to believe.

the world is getting far worse because everybody goes against the commands that god set up for
our own good, for a peacfull loving world.

We now have technology of mass destruction, you cannot deny this.

we now have men who run countries who do not live by the commands and hate god.


we now have an increasing false muslim religion raising its head up against the sinful world.

reality will hit you and the world and we will be caught off gaurd because we could care less about our creator.

Who are you to say how we should and should not live??

have you forgotten by pride your god?

most of the world has.

god loves his creatures including you and he will pay us back with just punishment, he will remove the evil
from the world like he did with the israelites.

we are just too pridefull.

look, the reason god did what he did in the OT is because he set up a perfect land for the israelites which was to have
no sin in it, he ordered capital punishment back then to (purge) the evil from the perfect land he was trying to make.

this is not instituted now because we have forgiveness of sins now implimented by christ and
the new sacrafice, thats why this does not happen today.

God has instituted confession to erase that evil.

basically you judge The lord (your) god with pride and for no reason withou even understanding the basic
ethics of what god is really about??

He cannot condone evil which the (whole) world has become today.

we will pay.

Bryd, im not trying to argue here, i just hate when men attack the lord when they do not understand him nor
his doctrines of forgiveness.

he is (just) he is (merciful)

all you see is the violence in him and nothing else.

peace.

"" i think your diety laws are going to be more broken ""

hes not my diety, hes yours, and everybodies, and yes they will be broken even more
by the world.

In the future the same thing you accuse god of will happen to Christians.

we will be exicuted by the antichrist and the OWO because of the same thinking of what your saying.


Why have nuclear bombs been created??

because of evil men whom governments do not want to take over nations.

do these evil men live by the commands?

No.

Nuclear bombs are created (against) the commaands of god.

yet this is a good direction of the world??

can you really not see where we are headed?

We have lost track of god and creat techology to replace god aand religion.

are future is destruction unless we all pray for the world.

Just keep an eye on how awesome and good of a direction we are in.

You will witness more violence in the future in WW3 than you have ever witnessed in your life bryd, and why?

because men broke the laws of god.

peace.

You really dont understand byrd, you lack the baisc understanding on who god is.

I would not touch a fly, i would and could never kill a man.

Have you forgotten (thou shall not kill)

He ordered capital punishment as a chastisement of evil in those days.


Whatever you say has no effect on me, im just worried about the reader who has to hear someone judge
god without knowing what god means. I know what miracles ive seen and do not have to prove it to you.


But, ill give you some info on the passages.

remember, read the whole chapter before picking and choosing what passage you want to
bash for your own agenda.


First in your last post something poped out at me.


Gen 38-24

again, they brought her into a capital punishment of chastisement because
they thought she was playing the harlot. she was found out to not be a harlot
and she was not exicuted. read the whole chapter.


ill post on the other passages soon, but you totally judge these passages without even understanding them.

peace.

Truth... Genesis is a set of stories.

Deuteronomy isn't stories. It's setting out Jehovah's laws, plainly, in black and white. If you want to see things returned to the way Jehovah ordered them, then you have to urge things like the stoning of those victims of priestly abuse because they didn't report the incident immediately and didn't fight the priest. And you need to urge that Christians not sue one another, for this is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus as expressed by his disciples.

The law about not wearing mixed fiber clothing is law. Straight from Jehovah. So are the dietary restrictions and a hundred other laws that govern everyday life.

If you want to seriously start by returning the world to the way it should be then you need to make sure you're following all the laws in this great book of yours and ignoring the laws of Man.

And you need to start urging the courts to follow the Bible:
* those Arthur Andersen auditors need to be sold into slavery (Exodus 22:3)
* dedicate your firstborn son to Jehovah (presumably this means sending him off to the priesthood, whether or not he wants that.)
* urge the execution of anyone breaking the Sabbath laws (Exodus 13:41) You do know what they are, I presume, and you do keep them religiously, right? These are commandments and are important enough to Jehovah that he smites people who break them.
* urge the execution of adulterers (Leviticus 20:10). Start with some of your local leaders... I'm sure you'll find less sympathy for them.

Are *YOU* keeping all the laws? If not, then YOU are actively causing the world to become worse.

Byrd you still don't get it, thats the (OLD) law which was obrogated upon the new law.

Your living and persicuting god by a law which does not exist anymore, and was replaced by the new law and sacrafice.

And what did i just say aabout read the whole chpater before judging god so much.


"" why dont you stone women for adultury anymore ""

Im only going to say this once, since you do not seem to understand, this was the (old) law which was replaced
by the new sacrafice and (confession).

We have an institued confession byrd so this cannot be done no more, and thats where the muslims are wrong.

(thou shall not kill)

(god) has let the human race get to this point where the old days seem like crazy fanatics.

why?

because we all turned are backs on him and he has just about left the human race to itself until his chastisment.


This arguing is useless, and unless you understand what the old and new law is you will never get it.


peace.

Excuse me "Truth" but don't you feel that the Old Law is what was right about the church "Vatican 1" and the new law (Vatican II) is what is wrong with the Church.

Or are you now suggesting that a new, new law be incorporated?