rethinking thermite

forgive me if this was discussed before....


As I make my way through CD at the WTC threads, I ask where the blasting caps are, where the detonators are, where the wiring is, and the HB's bring up thermite, and show this picture




they claim is the 45 degree angle and orange residue is proof thermite was used to bring the towers down.

that, of course, is silly. These columns were cut by ironworkers during the cleanup

here is my challenge;

go to this link and actually read it.

read about the timeline
read about the chemical reaction calculations
read about the italian debunkers paper on cutting steel


please read the entire page, its only a 15 minute read. If you argue for the thermite idea without reading the whole page, then you deserve the flaming you will surely get

here is something to chew on regarding the pancake theory;

Listen to "Demo Dave" Griffin and his crew talk about ground zero and evidence of pancaking.

"For it being two hundred and ten story buildings, the pile wasn't an enormous pile. We were expecting it to be - I think a lot of the guys were expecting it to be a lot more. I cut away a section of the wall - my gang cut into a section of the wall and we - we counted 14 floors compressed into 8 feet."

and since the HB's love youtube videos, enjoy;

The first photograph you show. What date is that photo from? How long after 9/11?

If that is the work of 'iwon workers cleaning-up' for waht possible reason would they a) cut it at 45deg and b) cut it so far above ground?

I've never cut a piece of steel and had that much slag on the interior and exterior part of a beam like that. Usually the torch throws slag in the direction you're cutting. Those beams are fairly impressive in size and strength, but your gas rises regardless of the steel. The yellow residue seems to be even feet lower than the actual cuts themselves. You could expect gas residue's tarnishing the top portion of the beam you're cutting but why the lower? There would have to be some serious head winds coming almost directly downwards on you while the cut was being made, or used a cutting technique that was so intense and powerful that it forced that residue downwards by it's own means. I also doubt they even use a conventional cutting torch for something that thick. If they do, I for sure would hate to be the one cutting it.

if it is thermite that cut that column in the pic in the OP why is there no slag on the left side below the angle?

why are there groves in the steel from the OA torch flame?

why can no one link me to a manufacturers website for "thermite cutting charges". someone has to make them yeah? if they do in fact exist...

im not being faceitous, id actually like a reasonable answer to this

edit: if im going to say im not being facetious, i shouldnt be lol

[edit on 17-11-2007 by Damocles]

Google Video Link

Steven Jones also found elements that are only found with thermite. I'm not saying that 1 picture is evidence of anything one way or another. Though, Steven Jones seems to have a good grasp on the subject.

[edit on 17-11-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

yeah.... did you ever see clips from that DVD about demolition... ahhh I can't remember what it's called sorry? That's exactly the angle they wrap the thermite wiring at around the steel beam. I think the ironworkers thing is a cop out. I dont get why it would be cut at the exact same angle advancedn explosives used in demo jobs are used at.
I remember I tried going to the library to find books or videos about demolition, and I couldn't find a single one. It was really odd. The only other conclusion I could make was that someone close to the origins of the "truth" movement (if this is all just originating from just one or two convincing nuts...haha I'll agree Alex Jones is off his meds, same goes for Rense)... maybe they made the DVD in question...and maybe they paid real demolition workers to act l;ike it was just some documentary on demolitions, but really all the information would be skewed just to fit those few pictures of the steel beams cut at a 45 degree angle? Wow, that sounds like a pretty far out conspiracy right there in itsself. These people we're talking about, Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Steve and Paul Watson, Loose Changers, etc... before a year or two ago, these guys were next to nobodys..except for maybe Alex Jones, but even he wasn't that well funded to have pulled off the MASSIVE conspiracy that must obviously exist if the truth movement was not based in reality.
I often wonder... it's highly possible that both are conspiracies...the conspiracy, and the conspiracy theory itsself... working hand in hand to get people so riled up that they end up doing something stupid and giving
Bush or his successor the needed excuse to decl;are martial law.

ive never seen any footage of anyone in demo using anything involving thermite to bring down buildings. everyone sees the "cutter straps" (insert clever name here) and assumes they are thermite. in reality they are most likely linear shaped charges (which are RDX based not thermite based) though since ive NOT seen said documentary i cant say that as fact.

what i do know is that i cannot find ANYWHERE a manufacturer of "thermite cutter charges" and if its a commercial product...someone has to make it yeah?

so if someone can point me to one ill stfu about that particular part of the discussion.

The use of Thermite is not all that proposterous given
the evidence of that column. If you'd like a redneck
version of how that steel column could have used
and how the Thermite could could have been used, then
it only a matter of application and how it happened
to get the outcome from the evidence. Some redneck
reverse engineering


A Thermite bomb hidden inside the core column could be un-mixed
in 2 separate containers and lowered into position from an upper
empty floor by rope and tied off and strategically placed due to height.
A small charge on that container breaks the containers
and mixes the solutions when the planes hit the building. The impact
of the planes (sound) drowns out the small explosions to set off
that chain reaction. Now there is Thermite dripping down INSIDE
the column. A well placed cutter charge several floors underneath
the Thermite bomb would sever the column and spew the Thermite
hot solution onto a specific floor (like the one targeted by the plane).
With the column severed, the fire drip now runs outside the column
along the floor line which would resemble a fuel fire
and runs toward the outside of the building which explains the Thermite
drip photos and video of it spewing out the side of the building before
it collapses.

reply to post by Zeta115




oh my god, I think you just put into words what I was thinking. If you weaken the core columns, then you can get the desired "pancake" effect that everyone is talking about.... dude you nailed it, I think... although I also think there were a few remote devices set inside at certain places just to make sure the buildings fell without a hitch.

srynx

I did look at that video for the engineer saying that he
had those cuts made and showed those cuts. However
there are 2 major differences between those clean-up cuts
and those cuts shown to be cutter charges.

1) The engineer cuts DO NOT have the black residue on them

2) The man made cuts are not at perfect flat angles they are
jagged and shows the work of an imperfect cut as you can see
those are done by hand. The beam cuts with the residue are
at perfect angles, precise and smooth. They were done in a
completely different ways.

So you're theory don't hold water in my opinion.

[edit on 17-11-2007 by Zeta115]

reply to post by Zeta115


if your going to use cutter charges anyway...i presume you refer to LSC's?...why bother with thermite? it would be totally pointless.

and to make this work i would presume you would also want to sever ALL of the core columns? that be the case, youre looking at a minimum of 172lbs/floor of HE. thats not a small boom by any means....kind of hard to mask that one

interesting theory though

Originally posted by indierockalien
reply to post by Zeta115

 

oh my god, I think you just put into words what I was thinking. If you weaken the core columns, then you can get the desired "pancake" effect that everyone is talking about.... dude you nailed it, I think... although I also think there were a few remote devices set inside at certain places just to make sure the buildings fell without a hitch.

Thank You

Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by Zeta115

 

if your going to use cutter charges anyway...i presume you refer to LSC's?...why bother with thermite? it would be totally pointless.

Not if you're using the fuel fire theory as the official reason
why the towers fell. It was used as an effect to get the outcome
the government desired. And it worked

reply to post by Zeta115


i am so missing something.

so, ill just rephrase my question.

if youre going to use cutter charges on the columns...why do you need thermite again? the columns are already cut...

reply to post by Damocles

They didn't use Thermite in ALL of the columns. They just needed
about 12 of the 47 columns to heat up and bend. This would be sufficient
to weaken the structure in my opinion to give it the tilt. If you take away
the core support then the only support the structure has is the remaining
core columns and the exterior facade columns. The exterior facade
wasn't strong enough to support the weight which is why the top
tilted to one side. Once the demo team saw the tilt occur. The
building was ready for the last set of charges. This is what's known
as a staggered demolition as the whole structure is taken down
over a period of time. If it was all done at once, it would have been
too obvious to the cameras. The demo was done in waves which is
why you hear the firefighters come out the buildings saying they
had found secondary devices. Those were the remaining cutters
which haven't been detonated .... yet

reply to post by Zeta115


Read my reply in the other thread and answer my Q's here, since this is about thermite. Copy/paste would be fine...

But - how was access gained to the inside of boxed columns again to place your thermite charges?

Originally posted by Haroki
reply to post by Zeta115

 

Read my reply in the other thread and answer my Q's here, since this is about thermite. Copy/paste would be fine...

But - how was access gained to the inside of boxed columns again to place your thermite charges?

I'm not sure what other thread you are referring to as you didn't
post a link to it

As far as access goes. It was relatively easy. if planned correctly
and the proper people knew it was going to happen.

The Thermite bombs could have entered the building in small
metal trash dumpsters with cushion so as not to break the containers
which housed the mixable solutions. This could have happened
from the freight elevators which are larger and access each floor,
especially the empty (unoccupied) ones. An unoccupied floor is the
perfect place for the dirty deed. There were witnesses who worked
inside WTC that claim to have heard heavy objects being moved around
while they were working. They also state that these objects sounded like
metal wheels scratching the floor. Metal trash dumpsters do have
metal rolling wheels. Once the Thermite bombs get to their respective
floors. That had to wait to cut holes in the steel, leaving the dumpsters
til the appropriate time whne they were needed.
Then comes the task of peeling away the dry-wall to get at
the steel columns. Cutting dry-wall causes huge amounts of dust
which some witnesses claimed there were huge amounts of the fine
dust on other floors which traveled thru ventilation shafts. Then comes
the placement of the devices. The weekend before 9/11, there was
a power down sequence in both towers where the power was out
for almost the entire weekend. This means everybody leaves the building
cuz there is no power except those demo guys on their respective floors
who used temp battery lighting to cut holes in the columns to plant
the Thermite bombs inside the columns and to plant the cutter
charges to displace the solution. This would have to have been done
when the building was empty as somebody would have noticed the
smell of the burning steel holes and went to investigate. With the power
down, disabled the fire sprinkler system which did not engage. This could
have been done in about 12 hours and the remaining part of the weekend
was only to allow the smell to dissipate. Once the deed was finished, the power was turned back on and the dumpsters removed before folks
showed up to work Monday morning.

Only thing left to do now was push a button

[edit on 17-11-2007 by Zeta115]

Just curious and maybe this has been answered but if ANY type of explosive was used, how did they:

1. How did they get the thousands of pounds of explosives into the building without being seen?
2. How did they install the thousands of pounds of explosives and wiring without being seen?
3. Where did they hide the thousands of pounds of explosives over the weeks it would take to install them?
4. Would walls need to be removed to get to supportive columns to plant the explosives?

Just curious if any of these questions have been answered yet?
Thanks.