Western religion has killed more people than cancer.

reply to post by orangetom1999


Hi Orangetom1999,

Oh Goodness. i was not going to post anymore, as over the next 12 days i must be fully prepared and ready to move. And in doing so, it is a process of saying good bye to so much that has been a catalyst for understanding and growth. It is a difficult thing to leave ones homeland. Last night was absolutely wonderful, almost like a going away present. i spent the evening among some of the most remarkable people, (most likely the ones to publish the book, though that has not been directly stated yet. However a potential door was opened.) Last night there were moments in a pool of hotspring water. And even a few moments alone to gaze at the star lit sky, while caressing the water in soft circular formations. I said thank you deeply, and cried a little like something being drawn from me, for my spirit longs for Him half way across the world.i must admit, i am also trying to achieve the impossible at this time! As, how do provide the ability to make more ice cubes in the desert??? lol. A personal quandary in which i am curiously and humorously intrigued as to finding its solution and what it might be.

Orangetom1999, in your writing regarding apostles/prophets/basically peoples meant for 1 specific purpose usually regarding the carrying forward of the most important of His message, you are absolutely 100 % correct in that there is No way to escape such a choice. The story i love the most from a biblical point of view is the story of Jonah. As he was placed in the belly of a whale during his obstinance, for 3 days and until he came to acceptance that he Had to do what God required of Him. i myself have been an obstinant child, in which He uses the process of humility as a beautiful gift to understand His will, and also to be capable of understanding others. It is not something i wish upon anyone either. "To whom much is given, much is required." There has been much on here in regards to "sharpening the sword of iron", however before it may be sharpened the iron must be placed through the refiners fire. In which impurities are taken away and a beautiful and more substantial metal is left for the maker, and to be sharpened. On some level Tom, all people go through this process. Some just more intense than others! And usually prophets and apostles.

However, in the midst of confirming you are correct, there is more truth than what you state. As being chosen to be among His people is proof in literally everyone's existence on the earth. Everyone is chosen. It would be widely too arrogant to consider otherwise, and in doing so it does create division and the whole circling process humanity has been enduring since His ascension home. All are welcome, according to the gift of their free will in which they must be willing to choose their acceptance in His kingdom. Free will Orangetom1999, is required for our decision to be our decision, for our ascension to be our ascension, for it is our will to choose the Fathers will in which acceptance of each others very nature allows room for us to grow. Even in our relationship with God! And accepting each other and their choices, we are accepting God and His will.

You are right that atheism and paganism use "You will" much. It is a form of trying to create and control the universe. And if the will be strong in goodness there is a possibility they could do so! Which is pretty cool if you think about it. However, in cases like these (Columbus and i) it will be the will of the higher good that resides in one of us that will over come the other. Have you noticed he simply argues within himself now, as i left the conversation once he was given the message? In me there is peace, in him he still is fighting. Which is okay and perfect. As someday he will turn for the greater good. It is just a matter of when... Now, or eternities?

reply to post by orangetom1999


Just continuing as i was running out of spaces.

When he chooses Tom, it will be a great day.

i have a prompting to tell you of the the fire of baptism. First i must begin with reiteration of Hifiguy's beautiful post in which stated there comes a point where faith moves beyond itself to knowing. In which this movement to knowing, much more can be revealed for understanding. It is amazing to witness people with such understanding, as i have already seen among this board. Queenannie was beautiful in her post regarding that when one states their will, it will be tested to prove itself true. And this is through the baptism of fire which is spoken of in scripture. And i look forward to the outcome in which Columbus will undergo and endure, as i am curious to find out the strength of his character, and if it is strong enough to endure such a test. And this test will occur in the eternities (if columbus doesn't choose "now"), as His will, Gods will must come first. No matter how much Columbus fights it, because he is not properly aligned, the greater good will outweigh and take presidence over lesser creations.

Many people are confused of it though; the baptism of fire. Many people have gone to the point of literal translation in which the earth will burn. This is not so. The earth will not burn, it simply will elevate to the energy levels in which He resides in. Many prophets of the past have tried explaining it as thoroughly as possible according to the language available of the time. Hence the translation of it in hindered terms. They did the best they could, and were able to teach according to the peoples understanding of the time. It is why (the constraints of language) prophets testimonies of the truth at times seems highly confusing. Poor Moses. (Gentle smile). His cup was large and i am proud of Him for giving all of himself to a very difficult task.

One day two springs ago, i had the great pleasure of walking upon high mountains. i was actually attempting to mountain bike at the time. It was during this time that a lot of higher communication in the form of viewing and experiencing the heavenly kingdoms was upon me, even against my own will. However the messages were being delivered in which i had no choice but to succumb. i had not even begun to ride that day, i simply only needed to arrive at my point of destination in where i planned to begin to ride. When it happens, it hurts my physical brain a lot, as the energies are beyond intense. So much so the pain begs my body to kneel while being within it and before it (the energy). There was a plain of high grass with one tree standing, and it's ledge overlooked to the other side of mountainous terrain; another ridge of the mountain chain. Upon the beginning of the viewing, as if slowly introducing itself so that i might be able to comprehend it all, i resided within a different level of energy residing on earth. It moved in soft pink and like water, though the water was charged with electricity. And i was literally in it, surrounded, with its view as endless as the sky, and all things residing in it's similitude. The ground appeared as the electric water, though different in color. All things appeared as such. My legs moved me across the plain of high grass, though it was not my conscious thought or desire. My body was instinctively responding to a call, in which there was no "i" involved, as "i" was a part of the whole in which everything flowed according to its design and purpose. My body stopped a safe distance from the ledge, in accordance to that which the first melchezedek taught me. His words while sitting a top of a cliff "Who do you think got the job? The one who stated they would come as close to the cliff as possible while ensuring they would not harm a thing, or the one staying far away from the cliff with the employers equipment?"

reply to post by michaelsannie



michaelsannie,

Thank you for your post. Moving...goodness me. A huge task particularly this time of the year. My days of moving and moving across the world are long over. I am very happy to stay put now days and know if I take a trip I will be soon be returning for I was raised in a transient enviornment.

I should tell you that I am not a free will person. I am Soverign Grace.
I do not believe in the popular doctrine that God loves everyone..for He did not love Esau but loved Jabcob...of the same lump of clay. For Jacob was in the book of life and Esau was not. Paul goes to particular lengths to clarify this in the new testament epistles. For God loved Jacob and hated Esau..even before they were born..neither having done any good or evil. That His purposes would stand.

The popular doctrine today is that none will be lost by thier free will...not His will...for they choose...they put the moneys in the box...they decide.
What I know is that He has a people and has plucked them out of this world and made them acceptable for His purposes...not ours. We are made acceptable by His will and for His purposes. We are in this manner chosen. We dont choose..we dont accept.

Oh..a further note on being a obstinate child. I cannot tell you when I was born again...or reborn as some would refer. I was very much an obstinate child..I do know this. I tried every way I know to avoid the knowlege..to get out of it. I ran and ran and ran. One day I just knew there was no where to run to avoid it. This went on for years and years. I knew the doctrine I had been taught was the Truth. I just tried for a long ;long time to avoid it..to get out of it. I ran out of corners in which to hide. It was shortly after that I got under the water.

The miracle of which I know is that He chose me at all. For I know that I deserve hell and damnation ..nothing better. He would be righteous and just in condeming me to such. I am at a loss to know why He would pluck a bum like me to carry His name on my lips.

You are correct ..there is more than what I state but it is not suitable for this platform...nor the audience. I myself had difficulty with much of it in going from milk to strong meat. Betimes I still do.. for I still have a kindred spirit with the world..and the flesh.

As to iron an the sharpening of the sword of iron I am not that familiar with such. Yes, I know about purification..the purification of metal..through fire.

What I do know about is Salt....and its uses.

Concerning your second post...yes..Melchizadek..Priest of the most High God. Yes...I am aware that our priesthood is of Melchezedek and not of Levi. It took me a long time to leave the milk here and realize there was strong meat to be eaten. Many out here would have us still under bondage ..under the priesthood of Levi. Not for me thank you.

You are going to the desert. Goodness me. I wish you well.

May the God of our Fathers watch over you and your house.

Orangetom


[edit on 28-12-2007 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Thank you ...they also mocked Him.

Hail, King of the Jews! They were right. Nothing has happened since then to prove them wrong. Just a lot of ignorant people wish it were so.

I was taught to expect no better from this world.

Mocking people is a way to show that their behavior is foolish and to discourage them from repeating it, which is a positive result from a positive act. You just take it the wrong way and aren't learning the right lesson from it. You should rely less on bad teaching and more on thinking for yourself. It will get you out of the trouble you are in now, and boy are you in trouble.

It also indicates that I am on the right track as we are told and taught to not expect different from the world.

You're on the wrong track, because when someone mocks you it indicates your behavior is obviously foolish. And again, you rely too much on authority to teach you and that's a basic fallacy. Just because someone told you to do these things doesn't mean they are the right things to do.

Any Christian who expects better or thinks they deserve better from this world needs to check their Christianity again.

Exactly, if you intend to act foolish, expect to be mocked. You've gotten away with it for a long while, but that time is now over.

You do however confirm the Truth of the Bible/Word with your reaction and mockery.

Hail, King of the Jews! Yes, I can see how all the Jews worship Jesus to this day. And I can see when America starts WWIII, how after the whole world is destroyed, the zero Jews and zero Christians that are left on the molten crust of the earth will worship him then.

It is textbook...of what natural man chooses and his reaction to the Word..and also the believers in the Word. No problem here.

As long as you've got the blinders on, unscrupulous people will mislead you with the Bible. No problem there. It's when you take the blinders off and see what you've done and what you've lost, then you'll regret what you are saying now.

You are obviously a man of intellect and reason. Your last post does not do you worthy.

Frankly, there's no way to talk to brainwashed drones unless you know their programming language. I learned it the hard way and I'll never forget it, but I can't say these words and mean them. I know Christ is a lie. You just deny it in ignorance.

...emotional and impassioned.

I'll thank you for the trauma you caused me when I left the Church. You haven't known it yet. In any case, this is all clinical, if I didn't have any passion, I wouldn't bother with you who are lost and foolishly insist you're found and chosen and arrogantly proud of it. You live in bizarro world and you are on crack. Go call the mods, I'm speaking the facts!

I merely point this out in contrast to your other well written and documented posts.

It's the same method. You are ignoring me either way. If you weren't you wouldn't be Christian any more.

As long as you are Christian I know you are ignoring me. Accusing me of bad behavior is laughable.

C

reply to post by orangetom1999


will write remainder of it soon...

it is exactly 3:33 am and i am so very tired!

my apologies to the board..double posting




[edit on 28-12-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 28-12-2007 by orangetom1999]

reply to post by Columbus


Im sorry Columbus,

Your last couple of posts illustrate a very high level of insecurity masked by the appearence of logic and reason. I am asking myself where you learned this very advanced type of technique? Very aggressive.
I am wondering if this is the fingerprint to which Major Malfunction refered as bullying??

However..no problem with this here. I have been in this position before..both on and off the web.
I am thinking you need a "makeover" or two in helping you through the day..or night. I dont think your logic and reason is cutting it for you here.
That decision of course is totally yours ..I merely suggest.

OH..by the way...blaming me for your problems at sometime in the past with the church..is pretty desperate and irrational. You might want to practice on this more. Some peoples would notice this as weakness. You do want to keep the high ground here. Once again I merely suggest.

ON the other hand If your technique or method in rationality/logic is what Athiest on these boards are proud of and boast....well...we will let the readers decide for themselves. No problem from me here either. Bon Appetit!!

Keep up the good work Columbus.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Your last couple of posts illustrate a very high level of insecurity masked by the appearence of logic and reason.

Let me tell you what I'm feeling.

Mainly, I'm worried for WiseSheep. He's done this in the past, he's ignoring me again. I really enjoy working with him, but he has issues and when he cuts and runs, I can't help him any more. It's not wise as you said, because a wise man admits when he doesn't know and he admits when he's wrong, if he has courage. WiseSheep is afraid, shaken, and yes it's partly because of me and I feel a little bad about it, but this is how it's done.

I really wish I could work with WiseSheep in person, but he's very private. All I want is for him to come to the realization and his cult mind control will automatically be broken. As would yours.

I am asking myself where you learned this very advanced type of technique?

I've posted about this months ago. First off, it took a while to learn what exactly the church did to me and get over the trauma. I really had to work it out on my own. It wasn't until years later I found other atheists on the internet, but most of them hadn't actually been through what I had.

Anyone who isn't where I am now might think that what I'm doing is controversial or wrong. They're not speaking with experience or knowledge of the techniques of the church.

Very aggressive.

Those who consider themselves Saved are under severe control. Being nice and friendly isn't going to cut through the tapestry of lies.

I am wondering if this is the fingerprint to which Major Malfunction refered as bullying??

I'm not aware of what MM said about bullying, only that she supports me. I don't feel the criticism of what I'm doing is fair and calling it bullying is wrong. It only seems like I'm domineering because of the strength of the position I defend, built on bedrock and all. While those who claim to build on bedrock have shaky foundations, should lead them to think they've actually built on sand.

I'm here for an important purpose and using a clinical technique to remove mind control, but I expect to get banned because mind control is difficult to remove and the people infected by it aren't expected to enjoy it. But the way I'm going about this is way better than how it happened to me.

I dont think your logic and reason is cutting it for you here.

The people I'm talking to aren't receptive to it, but it works fine for me. It's given me a foundation of bedrock, and them a foundation of sand.

OH..by the way...blaming me for your problems at sometime in the past with the church..is pretty desperate and irrational.

I don't hold you personally responsible, but as long as you stand on that side, you are as guilty as they are. Everyone you have helped convert, it will be a stain on your conscience if or when you get as far as I have. And I'd like to see you make that progress.

You might want to practice on this more.

After New Year's I'll be back to work and school. It's been insanely busy for me the past few months, but I'll see what I can do. BTW, I'm 36, running a company, and advancing my degree. I might not be around as I haven't been able. I'm feeling a pressure of time.

You do want to keep the high ground here.

Bull, I want this on equal footing. Holier-than-thou is for Christians.

...Athiest on these boards are proud of and boast....

I can't speak for other atheists, they don't seem my type, but I'm not proud or boasting. I was once like you. There's no lick of difference between us. There's no God choosing one or another of us. I'm just offering my experience because I know how traumatic it can be.

...we will let the readers decide for themselves.

I'm here to deal with people who have the courage to get involved. Frankly I'm outnumbered as it is and that's a pressure on me you are not respecting. Not that I can't handle you all. When you pat each other on the back for your blubbering nonsense, I get along without that just fine.

Keep up the good work Columbus.

I'm expecting to get banned.

C

Ah the wonders of projection and misunderstanding.

I refer to my being a "bully" in a mocking way, because when I post here, I always use a rational tone, I never make personal attacks (which cannot be said of the other side) but because of peoples' insecurities and the nature of faith (that it precludes reason, and reason always tries to come back out of the closet and assert itself) people perceive it to be bullying.

This is a psychological phenomenon that is known as projection, of which I see vast manifestations in the faith forums. Xians feel threatened by rational thought, and logical examination of their beliefs, so they get angry, and then project that onto me and say that my post is angry or that I am angry. I am called arrogant, when I point out the arrogance of the Xian statements.

Columbus has a unique perspective on what has been done to all xians and other theists because he has been through the fire. He has been mind controlled and knows exactly what it took to be redeemed from it. He can be a bit abrasive, yes; but from what I know of deprogramming, he is doing exactly what he is supposed to do in order to reach people who have lost contact with reality. Unfortunately, people are going to complain to the mods about him and because of a bias on the boards in favor of theists, he may get banned. I think that would be a great tragedy. I personally missed his presence on the board for all the months he's been gone. it's refreshing to see someone who KNOWS what connections to unplug and where to plug them in properly.

Columbus is trying to free people from delusion. I for one hope that he manages not to be banned. He's needed here in the ranks of the rational, to help us when we get disgusted and fed up with circular reasoning and backwards logic. Otherwise ATS/BTS would become nothing more than a digital tent revival. Since there are plenty of places like that on the internet already, it would be a great shame to allow it to happen on a site that is proud to say it Denies Ignorance. Religion is the biggest Ignorance of all.

Religious people say that god is the answer, that the world is awful because people turn their backs on god. This is a prime example of backwards reasoning. The US is the most religious of all western countries with 70 odd percent of people claiming to be Xian. And yet we have the highest crime rates, the highest rates of incarceration, the highest rates of teen pregnancy, and suicide, the highest rates of abortion and the highest rates of drug abuse in all the west. That is a very glaring and telling indicator that RELIGION IS THE EVIL. In the more secular nations of Europe, such as Sweden, their rates of all these social ills are much smaller. And it is all because the Swedes have realized that the god game is rigged. It is self-defeating. And it is religion and religious people who will destroy the earth, if it is destroyed, with their arrogance, their belief in an afterlife, their disrespect for the planet as a closed ecosystem that needs to be stewarded with great care or it will perish.

Instead of accusing Columbus of things and making ad hominem attacks, perhaps the people arguing with him should remove the beam from their own eyes before trying to remove the mote from his.

Don't worry, though, those of us who have broken free from the delusion will keep trying. Our planet's fate depends on everyone breaking free. If not, we'll all perish together.