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Bird flu may have spread

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posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Bird flu may have spread


uk.reuters.com

A deadly bird flu virus may have spread to another site, with suspicious deaths at a turkey farm in Suffolk
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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So since this may have spread to another farm, does that mean it may be easier to transmit to other birds faster so therefore, its getting closer to becoming transferable to humans .or actually, isnt it already able to go from human to human but in small clusters?

uk.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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How long has it been since we started talking about bird flu and it spreading and possibly mutating...2 to 3 years now? Think it could have happened in that time frame? Quite possibly. I think we're going to be alot hearing more about this rapidly evolving disease over the next few months.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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I completely agree with you. I wonder if it was just being dormant in the birds but now it like a volcano is starting to become active again yet this time move on to humans. I was collaborating with my associate, ukburger, and he feels that its going to have a big impact by the spring. I should urge my comrade, ukburger, to make a ATS account so we can talk more about it. Thank you for reading my thread.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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this entire problem is caused by cramming chickens into cages in squalid conditions.a breeding ground for disease.

like vCJD,it is entirely our own fault.

these kind of events are going to keep on happening untill we starts considering the long term.

wouldnt it be easier and cheaper to treat our food sources with respect,and not have to keep on dealing with the outbreaks of disease caused by the ideology of short term monetary gain?



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 10:27 AM
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It will take a number of evolutionary mutations in the genome of H5N1 for it to become human to human transmissable. In fact, one of the most basic mutations would require that its Hemagglutinin glycoprotein structure changes in a way that would allow it to bind with cellular membrane 2' or 3' Alpha receptors. Currently, any serotype of Influenza A (of which H5N1 belongs to) only bind with the 2' and 6' receptors, which means that not only would H5N1 have to alter its genetic structure, but it would also have to mutate it's viral proteins. Having said this H5N1 is the first known Influenza virus to mutate its RNA polymerase enzyme enough to not have Glutamine amino acids in its standard genetic code. It was actually able to acquire certain genes that led it to expressing a Lysine Base amino acid, which until then were only present in human Influenza infections. This of course took a number of years, but because of the extremely fast transcription and replication process that all RNA based viruses go through it is entirely possible that further mutations will and could occur.

For instance, as mentioned previously it would require Hemagglutinin (HA) glycoprotein reformation, but it would also require slight alteration to its Neuraminidase enzymes (NA). Neuraminidase is essentially a Glycoside hydrolase enzyme that helps a newly formed virus bud and release from the infected cell. It would be pertanent for the virus to mutate both HA and NA in order to cause a longstanding infection in humans. In other words Bird Flu's H5, or the 5th Glycoprotein of Hemagglutinin, would have to evolve enough to acquire further proteins and thus transform into H7, H10, H12, etc. On the same order N1, or the 1st enzyme of Neuraminidase, would also have to reassemble its structure to infect human Leukocyte and Lymphocyte cells on a massive scale thus resembling N2, N5, N10, or other combinations thereof. This would allow the mutated form of H5N1 to bind with human cell membranes.

By the time Bird Flu completes this process it will effectively no longer be H5N1, but will mutate into a subserotype of Influenza A such as it has already done with H5 and H7. In effect, the new strain would resemble something on the order of H7N10 or some other Influenza strain. Because of the extremely high virulence and mutation rates associated with RNA viruses, and Influenza A strains (including H5N1) it is entirely possible that a Panzootic infection could happen within the next few years. Nevertheless, humans have survived the onslaught of H1N1, H3N2, and even a suspected early outbreak of H2N2. The one positive point to take from all this is that we have now known about H5N1 for a number of years and new antivirals in development may give us enough time to contain an infection should it pass from human to human.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Ahh, good old Bird Flu. You have been hiding out lately. I thought you might have went the way of the last global pandemic... the dreaded SARS. It is good to see that it isn't gone for good. Nice to see that it managed to mutate over to Turkeys just in time for Thanksgiving. Rumsfeld must need some extra money for the holidays.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Jazzerman
 


were the early influenza pandemics (such as the one of 1912),caused by an avian to human mutation,followed by a human to human mutation,or was another process/species responsible?.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Welivefortheson,

There are several variants between Influenza strains that affect which speices they infect. Typically it's much like a matching game where some Glycoproteins will only match up to certain receptors on a mammalian cell. Serotypes such as H1N1 (Spanish Flu) originally co-infected humans, pigs, and birds, and was probably based on a slight mutation to Influenza A subtype affecting pigs and birds because of slight alterations in its RNA genome. H2N2 (Russian Flu), much like Spanish Flu, is actually a mutation based off of H5N1 and was the suspected cause of the mass epidemic back in the late 1880's and has had several mutations since then causing H3N2. It seems that all Influenza species including those found in the Orthomyxoviridae family like Influenza A-C, Isavirus that is found in Mosquitos, and the Thogotovirus share a common ancestor in other mammalian species like birds and pigs.

With that being said, Influenza has been around for millennia and has evolved its genome to the point where mutations are made once during every replication and transcription cycle. This means it can adapt to the host rather fast in comparison to many other viruses, especially those that contain a genome of DNA instead of RNA.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Jazzerman
 


so what your saying is that viruses from the Orthomyxoviridae family have successfully attained the: species-human then human-human mutation on different occasions,and its getting more effective at mutating so?.

so im assuming,upon those prior occasions our/avians/pigs immune systems have been in race to develop resistances to the strains,resulting in reducing their pathogenic and negative effects?.
are our immune systems as effective as dealing with the strains as the animals?.

does it work the other way round,ie is there viruses that have mutated from originator host human to animal??

so many questions i know!



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 04:18 PM
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Welivefortheson, I will try to answer each of your questions as well as possible. However, one thing to keep in mind when talking about the taxonomy of viruses is that because we do not have fossil remains from pre-historic viruses we are not able to trace the lineage of them beyond the modern era. With that being said...

1. Yes, viruses in the Family of Orthomyxoviridae (primarily Influenza) are well known as having the ability to cross the species barrier. Actually, RNA viruses in general are very well suited to adaptability, which includes Retroviridae, Picornaviridae, Coronaviridae (SARS), and many others. It is commonly believed that viruses are the evolutionary remnants of very small cells that would parasitise and use larger cells as hosts. Then over time they "learned" to drop the genes no longer required for a parasitic lifestyle and express those solely needed for replication. Although not actually considered living organisms they were probably once just that, and in a sense de-evolved into their present form.

2. In answer to your second question the immune system of other mammals are generally much like those of humans on a basic level. Some develop resistance or immunity over time, but primary infections usually cause the same effect or worse than in humans. Some strains of H5N1 have been known to reduce Waterfowl populations by as much as 90% by the time a primary infection is established, so saying that the immune systems of other mammals are better adapted is not quite correct.

3. As for you last question about human to animal transmission...it would be rather difficult for me to say with any authority one way or the other. Again, the fossil record is almost completely lacking when it comes to viruses, and because Homo Sapiens are a relatively recent addition to the evolutionary chart I would venture to guess they have crossed species on a number of different occasions.



posted on Nov, 17 2007 @ 01:16 AM
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Interesting convo being said. nice info being brought by Jazzerman. thank you




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