there is no doubt they are here. Pres. Reagan even talked about them in a speach to the U.N. asembly in the 1980's

Originally posted by chickenfeet


and then all the debunkers will still say its a CGI of story musgrave
nothing to see here
move along please

Nothing to see here folks. Move along, move along.

C'mooon. If this was true this would have been on the front page. Again it's something has to do with a writer about selling books.

I'm not too sure about Clark C. McClelland. I first heard about him on the 'net - he was pushing his book. I am the Managing Editor of a magazine, so I e-mailed him and asked for an interview with him. I received a very strange e-mail back from him. He said he believes he has spent many lifetime in Egypt and then talked about religion; none of it made any sense, but I still wrote him back, telling him 'd like to interview him about his book. I never heard back from him. Both my husband and myself figured he's probably some sort of fruitcake. I never was able to verify his credentials and I haven't heard of him anywhere else, even on the 'net, except for his own website. He has alot of fantastic stories to tell, but I don't think he's taken seriously by the UFO investigators, I've never heard of him anywhere else. I think he makes alot of stuff up. That's my impression.

Originally posted by rockets red glare
there is no doubt they are here. Pres. Reagan even talked about them in a speach to the U.N. asembly in the 1980's

No he didn't he was speaking in the context of, war being the alien, funny coming from him lol.

People are talking about the rash of disclosures lately, maybe it's no coincidence that christmas is almost upon, and all those books and dvds need to get sold.

Frankly the more I read about these," DISCLOSURES" and revealations the more skeptical I'm becoming, all these desperate people looking for ANY shred of evidence that maybe we're not alone and maybe someone will save up. I think it should be called the 'Saveus Syndrome'



[edit on 16-11-2007 by willywagga]

Sometimes, I wonder if President Bush does the disclosure himself by claiming & confirming in a press conference that there are Extraterrestials and that they are here.

What would be the reaction of the world? I am also curious with the skeptics on how are they going to debunk him (if there will be any). What sort of evidence can we expect?

Bottomline, does it have to be the president of the U.S. to confirm? A nobody? or someone not so popular? Who really has the auhtority to confirm? Or should it be the evidence itself will confirm?

[edit on 16-11-2007 by searching_for_truth]

In the back of most of our minds we have the impression that seniority indicates maturity and wisdom, we hear some older person, we believe them, we consider them wise, this is our instinct. This is a falsehood.
If you dig just a little behind the Musgrave story (no pun intended) you will see that his words are stretched waaay out of context to suit Clark C. McClelland and his book etc.

This is all smoke and shadows, unfortunately.
It's interesting how a thread begins with some vague suggestion of "disclosure" which is sensationalized by the original poster and really snowballs from there. Despite several others introducing several links with what seems to be closer to the truth.
I imagine some members packing their bags and getting ready for the big shakedown, on the basis of one of these 'spoofy' threads.

I am availabe to be convinced, I have an active imagination, I'm a reasonably successful artist. But I have difficulty with the leap of faith to believe most of this stuff, I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced Jesus walked on water either etc.

So when I see more vacuous threads relating to easily misunderstood information, by Long term members here who should know better and maybe do a little backup research before posting, I dispair.

Sure we would all love to find that these sightings etc are genuine, that we have been visited by beings from another world, but trying to squeeze truth from lies just doesn't work. We are just deceiving ourselves, and where does that get us.

Let the background checks be done before there are more 'SPOOF' threads posted, frankly I don't think it helps ATS in the long term.





[edit on 16-11-2007 by willywagga]

Originally posted by never_tell
from a couple of other famous "astronauts"

Josephus...

Tacitus...

Where, exactly, did these 'astronauts' fly?

And are you seriously suggesting that these accounts are of real phenomena and not soldiers' messroom tales?

Originally posted by willywagga
...
This is all smoke and shadows, unfortunately.
...
I am availabe to be convinced, ...
[edit on 16-11-2007 by willywagga]

An interesting (to me, anway) observation. The general tone of the "Non-skeptical" seems to be that they want to rub the noses of the skeptics and Fair skeptics in their version of whatever the truth may be. It's like the culmination of many of their lives will be so sparse that only if they get to say, "I told you so", will they have any natural completion.

I could easily see the Christmas Carol being rewritten as a UFO opera.

I would think that rather than vengeance, the "true believers" might be a little less interested in vengeance, and "nya-nya... Told you so"... And a bit more interested in simply getting to the truth.

You probably really need to work on stopping the tendency to see all sceptics and Fair Skeptics (long may they live!) as unworthy opponents who you want to rub their faces in the local version of pig dung... We skeptics are just like you believers in so many ways. We, generally, aren't really trying to prove that ET doesn't exist. After all, ET either does, or does not exist. Nothing you or I can do is going to change any of that as truth. It's simply that most sceptics and Fair skeptics want a little more proof than unsubstantiated stories, and leaps of faith. And even though I absolutely love and respect John Lear, his various statements of belief do not constitute proof or provide validation. And that really hurts me, because I'd really like to see John proven 100% correct. I dunno why, I just love the big jamoke.

But, seriously, I don't think that negative feelings one way or the other towards each other is going to validate, or invalidate the whole cosmic concept. I think we ought to put the negative crap away and work on solutions together. The sum of all the little parts of the UFO culture is going to be, sooner or later, greater than it's whole.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Where, exactly, did these 'astronauts' fly?

And are you seriously suggesting that these accounts are of real phenomena and not soldiers' messroom tales?

There you go... Talking about skeptics...

Telos! Havn't seen you in a spell, w'as up?

Hi Matyas, I've been here around, maybe posting in different threads


[edit on 16-11-2007 by Telos]

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
WOWOW Good find. You know i think things are gonna happen over the enxt few years. I was discussing UFO's and ailen life and interdimensional beings at work today. What was amazing was that noone laughed or s'n-word'ed. It seems that discussing this topic is less taboo now in public and becomming accepted. I've noticed that more ordinardy members of the public ie an unscientific random sample of people at work openly admit to beleiving in ET and the existence of UFOs

I've run into this at work as well, I work nights alot and listen to Coast to Coast everytime I do, A friend and co-worker asked me kinda of furtively If I listen to Coast to Coast as he used to when he had the same job I do. Once I told him unashamedly that I did he opened up and we talked a mile a minute about aliens UFO's etc. It's great, I really think something is going to happen the world is becoming more and more ready and will easily come to grips with this. Great thread!

Well, it's things like this that really get me started.

Because this man had the priviledge to be with the Astronauts and on the space shuttle and because he has a bunch of letters before or after his name he is considered believeable.

In a way I am insulted by this and I feel as if I have to stick up for all abductee's

There are many here at ATS that have had experiences and they only get called names and are put down.

I have a hard time with when people only believe someone because they have credential's.

Many of us here have given you much more then "they are real" I just love it when he tried to communicate with them but when we tell you we communicate with them we are called stupid moron's and told we need to see a Doctor and get our mental health checked.

One last thing, I would suggest that you listen to abductee's right here from this site and maybe just maybe you might learn what is really going on.

My rant is over, thanks

Has anyone tried contacting Musgrave on his site to try and clear this up?
Seems like if I was a famous astronaut Id like to know if some bogus writer was claiming that I actually saw a UFO/ET.

Although I have a feeling that this is just a big lie.. Id really like to believe its true. What about all those other famous astronauts that claim to have seen Flying saucers and ET, I know that there has been allot in the past.
Have those guys been telling the truth? Cause if they have then theres a good chance our buddy Story here is also coming clean.

why do you think his name is 'story'?

ha!

actually, he's a very respectable and admirable man.

that said he is just a man, susceptable to all the misinterpretations and conclusion jumping that anyone else is as well.

he wouldnt have thought to have shot any footage of this amazing thing as it was happening? the shuttles go up with plenty of sophisticated photographic equipment on hand. it would have been nothing for him to tell someone to shoot what they were all seeing... as if he would have to.

no footage = proofless anecdote

interesting, though

Originally posted by planetfall
why do you think his name is 'story'?

That's his middle name no? Franklin Story Musgrave.

Id like to see Santa Clause too! Ya they have allot of crazy equipment on bord that could of taken a few videos or pictures for proof, but seeing as the government have been hiding the truth from us since the 1940's you think that there gonna show us proof now? I dont think so dude.

the question must be asked,

how would anyone know when they are seeing an extraterrestrial or its craft?

lostmind take note!