Why are so many Masons on ATS?

Originally posted by Animal
no you sure cant. it seems to me that you are more interested in bypassing discussion. you have statements that you throw back at mine but they lack the qualities of discussion. to have a discussion you need to address exactly what it is i am talking about, not dismiss them.

Not at all. I'm game for a discussion anytime (intelligent discussion that is). I addressed your points but it seems you just didn't like my approach because there was nothing wrong with my response in and of itself. If a point you make is clearly wrong, don't be surprised if the other person clearly dismisses it. That's how discussion works.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Animal
to the mod whose name i have now forgotten, regardless of how many mason mods there are, you all far out number the non mason users as far as i can tell for browsing....the number of mods is beside the point...

Not true Sparky as both Masons and non-Masons alike will attest that my foot is firmly planted in those that don't adhere to the T&C, no matter their affiliation. Personally I take exception to the insinuation that I'm not doing my job, or in some way being coerced.

You cannot fool them any longer Intrepid.. I think it is time you admit that you are in the Mason's control, and that you have no will power to fight us! Taking over ATS one mod at a time!

no you sure cant. it seems to me that you are more interested in bypassing discussion. you have statements that you throw back at mine but they lack the qualities of discussion. to have a discussion you need to address exactly what it is i am talking about, not dismiss them.

Look animal.. I don't know what kind of "conversation" your looking for .. but just because someone disagrees with what you say does not mean they are dismissing your arguments and not partaking in the conversation.. I think perhaps you should better engage in the conversation, if you don't like or understand something fitz or someone else says in reply, ask another question .. its really a simple process.. if you think our answers are auto programmed by what our Lodge tells us to say your sadly mistaken, we Masons tend to disagree with eachother sometimes and we all answer in our own way. Believe it or not.. you can be a member of a fraternal society and still have will.

Fitzgibbon, Mirthful Me, and Rockpuck:

you are all Masons, no? while you are all not moderators you all are defending the same thing, right?

I admit my saying Fitzgibbon did not try to anwser my questions is false, he did offer answers, only they ignored what I see as the obvious intention of my comments and / or questions. So did those of Mirthful Me in making the issue of "control" relate directly to mods on the site, or Rockpuck talking about per capita masons on the ATS site...on and on.

my initial post was directed not only to masons but to a forum in general. rather than discussing my ideas with a range of people my comments have been systematically picked apart by masons clearly in order to disprove, or invalidate what i am saying. "winning arguments" your intent is it? too bad, i didn't come here to argue with you. i never claimed to be privy to the truth.

not one of you is interested in exploring ideas, only in protecting your interests. yes i see your point you openly tell the world your masons. you talk openly about your organizations public activities. i feel like you also avoid the obvious truth that your organization is closed to non-members. of course you can talk about the charity work you all do. What about your rituals? would you all like to discuss those with me? to make that possible how about we start with you explaining the rituals in detail for me ? whats that? you cant? i cant hear the details? no handshake for me? hmmmm, why is that? could it be because masonic traditions, or at least the details, are not shared with non-members? doesn't that make them secret? this doesn't even begin to address my ideas regarding the effects of ritual, i think only one of you even bothered offer a single sentence in response to that.

go ahead have your fun and do what ever it is that floats your boat. i apologize for arguing, i must admit everything after the first post was more in defense of my ideas, which i am sure i could have shared more clearly, rather than on discussion. that is not what i came here for, but apparently discussing free masons on this site is overly taboo, which i feel is a shame.

Originally posted by Animal
but apparently discussing free masons on this site is overly taboo, which i feel is a shame.

Don't know where you came up with that. If you do a search you will find that over 90% of the threads in SS is about the Masons. No taboo there.

Too bad I have to go to work, this is going to be interesting if you are REALLY interested in discussion Animal.

omg looking back at all the posts....

intrepid, you like the rest are missing my point...

i am saying the forum is controlled by ideas that tend to favor the masons. no your not coerced nor are you not doing your job. i am talking about the view point of this board, period, nothing more. the predominate paradigm here is pro-mason, yay your all good and normal and were all uninformed trolls for not seeing things the same way.

holy #$%^ guys settle down.

i know im am opinionated, but i tend to get along with EVERYONE...

i have not been this quickly chased out of anywhere, probably EVER.

you guys are rabid, period.

Originally posted by Animal
omg looking back at all the posts....

intrepid, you like the rest are missing my point...

i am saying the forum is controlled by ideas that tend to favor the masons. no your not coerced nor are you not doing your job. i am talking about the view point of this board, period, nothing more. the predominate paradigm here is pro-mason, yay your all good and normal and were all uninformed trolls for not seeing things the same way.

Who's called you anything? If I missed it please point it out. Who is "we:" btw?

holy #$%^ guys settle down.

i know im am opinionated, but i tend to get along with EVERYONE...

i have not been this quickly chased out of anywhere, probably EVER.

you guys are rabid, period.

Dude, you're the only one who's bent out of shape. Calm down and then put your questions out there succinctly.

Point1......

Point2......

I'm sure you'll get your answers.

Edit: Fixed BB code.

[edit on 24-11-2007 by intrepid]

Originally posted by Animal

holy #$%^ guys settle down.

It appears to me only one person in this conversation is unsettled.

i have not been this quickly chased out of anywhere, probably EVER.

Who asked you to leave? Is anyone forcing you to withhold your opinions?

lol of course i am unsettled, i came with a few ideas and ended up in an ass backward argument with a group of masons. no one asked me to leave, i just dont feel very welcome. no one called me a name, but "drive by troll" was used in general. and the "we" are those who have misgivings about masons.

i think that masonic tradition is highly suspicious. you are engaged in old ritual that is kept shrouded from the public. from what i have read the origins and intention behind your ritual is foggy even to members. i can understand if you dont see this as dangerous if you dont believe in the power of ritual. i however do.

manifestation follows intention

your participation links you to each other. your collective "energy" wielded by intent creates. what does it create? what is the intention behind your ritual?

also, what of the fraternity? do you make pacts with one another? if so of what nature?

Originally posted by Animal
lol of course i am unsettled, i came with a few ideas and ended up in an ass backward argument with a group of masons. no one asked me to leave, i just dont feel very welcome. no one called me a name, but "drive by troll" was used in general. and the "we" are those who have misgivings about masons.

What exactly is the point of a discussion board if everyone agrees with you? If you expect you can go anywhere on the internet and post your thoughts and have everyone give you a chorus of "AMEN!" - it isn't going to happen. I have not read this whole thread, but it seems to me like you posted arguments, and they were logically dismantled. There is nothing unusual, this happens often in discussions.

Originally posted by Animali think that masonic tradition is highly suspicious. you are engaged in old ritual that is kept shrouded from the public. from what i have read the origins and intention behind your ritual is foggy even to members.

This is a classical example of a logical non sequitur. The fact that masons use a old ritual that which we do not shout from the roof tops should not de facto cause you to be "highly suspicious." The fact that you can even read the "origins and intentions" of the ritual tells just how not shrouded masonic ritual really is: every thing is available for your consumption. Of course, you have to consider the source...

Originally posted by Animali can understand if you dont see this as dangerous if you dont believe in the power of ritual. i however do.

manifestation follows intention

This assumes first that there is some "evil" in masonic ritual. I still await evidence on that.

Originally posted by Animalyour participation links you to each other. your collective "energy" wielded by intent creates. what does it create? what is the intention behind your ritual?

If you fear people sharing experiences, why is it you only target masons? What about the hundreds of other college fraternities, or ANY time a group of people share an experience. This past Friday was Black Friday, where hordes of american consumers had the collective experience of a shopping stampede. Do you fear the energy summoned that is wielded by millions of soccer moms intending to kill each other to save a few hundred dollars? I submit that they are far scarier than masons. Trust me, I used to work retail.

its not the disagreement its the dismissal. i admit i got my panties in a bunch and i often fail to communicate well in writing. it just feels like the issues get glossed over. maybe i am better off on a spirituality or new age site where bringing up the impacts of ritual can be discussed more to my liking. maybe i just need to find something else to do other than post on the interwebs. but it appears that here i am the ass.

Why because most want brotherhood, thinking they follow some thing good because it has a "moral code",

They come here to advance knowledge, nothing wrong with that, the funny thing is that they dont realize they make a bed with the noon day devil.

Religiouse types always getting on their case.....the presiding pope for the end of vatican 2 (Pope Paul VI) was a 33rd degree mason. Funny right? They come here in the same way....wolves in sheeps clothing.

some are just sheep , thats all. They are their voucher....our real brothers and sisters , they put before us as a sheild.

Originally posted by newyorkee

Religiouse types always getting on their case.....the presiding pope for the end of vatican 2 (Pope Paul VI) was a 33rd degree mason. Funny right?

Can you provide any type of evidence to support this statement? I find the implication highly dubious.

As far as proving without a doubt, you must look to the details for the devil....catholic churches being visually transformed into something almost Identical to a masonic altar and ceremonial gathering place....the removal of adoration to god with the preist presenting an offering to god in our behalf, rather than facing us and "celebrating" with us. The stripping of hte


here is one link...

cuttingedge.org...

look for more if you like.....

here is a list of more recent additions to that brotherhood.

catholic.cephasministry.com...

The stripping of the responsibility of the preist to be cleansed and ready to offer God our devotion......we just sing and celebrate like we were just chilling in a social function.....no talk of hell or the salvation of souls ......things masons dont really even care about....

reply to post by newyorkee


Pffft... You can do better than that... Heck, I can do better than that:

www.orthodoxfaith.com...



Still... How do you explain this:

www.papalencyclicals.net...

Seems like someone might have objected if the Pope was sneaking out on Tuesday nights and came back reeking of roast beef.

reply to post by newyorkee


I see. So I guess the less obtuse answer is 'no'.

Originally posted by Animal
Fitzgibbon, Mirthful Me, and Rockpuck:

you are all Masons, no? while you are all not moderators you all are defending the same thing, right?

I admit my saying Fitzgibbon did not try to anwser my questions is false, he did offer answers, only they ignored what I see as the obvious intention of my comments and / or questions.

I answered the question as was posted. Perhaps we should start afresh.

Originally posted by Animal
So did those of Mirthful Me in making the issue of "control" relate directly to mods on the site, or Rockpuck talking about per capita masons on the ATS site...on and on.

Well, to be fair, your response could reasonably be taken as on edge and the replies you've received since have demonstrated that.

Originally posted by Animal
my initial post was directed not only to masons but to a forum in general. rather than discussing my ideas with a range of people my comments have been systematically picked apart by masons clearly in order to disprove, or invalidate what i am saying. "winning arguments" your intent is it? too bad, i didn't come here to argue with you. i never claimed to be privy to the truth.

This isn't about winning. Quite often, people post stuff to this thread that's right out somewhere past the Moon as far as accuracy's concerned and I don't think it's really that untoward that those who are in a position to correct take it upon themselves to do so. Citing the Problem Lodge thread again, most regular Mason posters here have called shenanigans on the OP of the thread. However, Axeman feels differently and is following it up offline with the OP. You'll notice that activity on that thread has died right down because one Masonic poster feels there could be something more going on than what appears on the surface. So everyone's backed-off to let that evolve.

Originally posted by Animal
not one of you is interested in exploring ideas, only in protecting your interests. yes i see your point you openly tell the world your masons. you talk openly about your organizations public activities. i feel like you also avoid the obvious truth that your organization is closed to non-members. of course you can talk about the charity work you all do. What about your rituals? would you all like to discuss those with me? to make that possible how about we start with you explaining the rituals in detail for me ? whats that? you cant? i cant hear the details? no handshake for me? hmmmm, why is that? could it be because masonic traditions, or at least the details, are not shared with non-members? doesn't that make them secret? this doesn't even begin to address my ideas regarding the effects of ritual, i think only one of you even bothered offer a single sentence in response to that.

Well, you seem to want all the information with none of the investment of time and effort. I'm sorry but you're going to have to accept that short of joining a Lodge yourself, there's going to be some things that just aren't shared with you or any other non-Mason. As I've said, there's precious little about Masonry that can't be found on the Internet or that hasn't been published repeatedly over the last three centuries by people whose word hasn't been worth the breath it takes to make a pledge. However, I'm not going to break my oath and compound someone else's error. If you're really interested in the truth about Masonry, you'll have to do your own digging.

Originally posted by Animal
go ahead have your fun and do what ever it is that floats your boat. i apologize for arguing, i must admit everything after the first post was more in defense of my ideas, which i am sure i could have shared more clearly, rather than on discussion. that is not what i came here for, but apparently discussing free masons on this site is overly taboo, which i feel is a shame.

Hardly taboo. As you clearly know that secrecy is one of the basic precepts about Masonry just don't get annoyed if the Masons here choose to be faithful to their pledges where others in the past haven't. It's all about character

Originally posted by Animal
holy #$%^ guys settle down.

i know im am opinionated, but i tend to get along with EVERYONE...

i have not been this quickly chased out of anywhere, probably EVER.

you guys are rabid, period.

Methinks you have it bass ackward as to whose behaving in a rabid manner. T'was you went on the offensive first, bucko. If you choose to leave, fine; there's nobody forcing you to stay. If, however, you choose to stay, dandy; just show a modicum of respect and you'll get as much back