Why are so many Masons on ATS?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Good day Rockpuck,

Thank you for answering a great deal of my post.

Hmm proof Masonry is not "evil" or what have you? I don't know. I suppose being a 32º Mason as opposed to being a non Mason who gets his facts from google videos.

I have never watched a google video about your order. I have done very little reading and have only became ultimately aware of it while being a member of ATS. One disconcerting part of your above quote that due to your position with in your organzation you belive that you're better than I or any else who will ask a question about therefor you feel entitled to speak down to them. That may not be how the thought sounded in your head but that to is very clear put down to me say the least.

As a case in point it would the be same as myself going into my hapkido class and sparing with our newest student and I using the most destructive of our techniques and I just smugly tell him as he's lying on the mat with a dislocated knee and two broken arms "ha ha you're hurt and I'm better than you" With that sort of attitude Dojunim would take my belt away and beat me to a pulp first. It's to bad whom ever is above you in your Mason lodge doesn't reprimend you for your attitude.

Nope. Not angry. I find it intriguing to talk to some of you.. its amazing you know.. because you all exhibit the EXACT same personality. I could almost say its one guy making a thousand accounts.

Now you're making me into a sterotype when I posed a question and thought about a why The Masons would use ATS.

But would rather no Masons be on the board? I would think if you guys where actually right for once you wouldn't loose every debate in every thread.

No I would not prefer that Masons were not using ATS. Infact, as I said before it's a great tool for your order provide information or disinformation.Be it fact , fiction or myth it's a tool than can be used in a positive or negative sense.

One problem .. almost every single Mason on the board comes from a different Grand Lodge, some are from England at that. I know it would be nice to think the Grand Lodges could coordinate such an effort lol but I honestly have to doubt they could.

I agree with you in the fact that is a problem where all the information is not comming from a single source or a group of your Grand Lodges are not making a concerted effort to provide the truth and remove the fiction.


I too appreciate a debate and further agree with you that a narrow minded view leads to very closed minds. I would hope that you'd see from our exchange I'd prefer to learn from someone who, like yourself, knows the truth and is willing to share it openly and publically.

Thank you all for your time,

Arcticnull

[edit on 11/16/0707 by Arcticnull]

Originally posted by Arcticnull


I agree with you in the fact that is a problem where all the information is not comming from a single source or a group of your Grand Lodges are not making a concerted effort to provide the truth and remove the fiction.

There isn't a concerted effort, but each of the 51 individual Grand Lodges in the United States has its own website and information available. The same can be said of the United Grand Lodge of England, and the other British Grand Lodges including the Canadian ones. It should be bourne in mind that most Masons, including Grand Lodge officers, are completely unaware that Masonry is considered controversial by some non-Masons. Were I to tell some of my local brothers about some of things our critics have said about us on this very forum, they would not believe me and would probably think I was just joking.





[edit on 16-11-2007 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by stompk

I realize that the agenda of the Masons is not a good one at all, but one of a planet of slaves for the Elite.

That would be cool. Then I could beat the system from within.

Illuminati, Masons, Order Of The Knights of Malta, Order of the Garter, Lord of Man, are all names of Blaspheme.

I wish it were so. Im not too fond of Christianity myself and had to kiss the Bible when entering Freemasonry. That almost made me pack my bags and leave again. But what the heck...they are well-meaning.

To me, it's obvious that Masons also control this Forum.

Gosh, really? So Im at home with friends here. Anything "they" dont control?

All truths referring to Masons get channelled into this area, and then the info is buried under a bunch of angry long posts from the likes of Skyfloating and his "brethren".

I dont know any of these "brethren" and what their agenda is. My personal agenda is to have a blast discussing stuff with people like you. Thanks for being around.


[edit on 16-11-2007 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Arcticnull

Thank you for answering a great deal of my post.

I may appear to be an ass, and perhaps I am, but I do try and respond to everything.

I have never watched a google video about your order. I have done very little reading and have only became ultimately aware of it while being a member of ATS. One disconcerting part of your above quote that due to your position with in your organzation you belive that you're better than I or any else who will ask a question about therefor you feel entitled to speak down to them.

Yes and no actually.

I hold no special position in Masonry, many Masons on the board are Past Masters, of which I am not, I have just entered the officer line. As far as that goes there are many more on here with more experience then me, and it was reading their post that got me to join Masonry in the first place, Masonic Light, Corsig, Apak who isnt around much anymore, Trinity Man, etc.

Being a 32º is special for various reasons, but essentially all you have to do is pay $150, size a ring and sit down and watch a few plays. No memorization or anything, no work, just listen and contemplate what you see.

Anyone who joins the Scottish Rite is a 32º unless you have to stop and go to work, you may be a 14º usually, and that only means you couldn't come the second day, or you couldn't make the first day but got he 32º with out a few lower ones. At my reunion we had I believe 7 or 8 degrees. I don't even have all 32.

So no, your wrong in the sense that I think I am better because of my exalted position.

I do however talk down to those who declare that they know MORE then ME about MYSELF and the organization to which I belong to and THEY don't. Yes. I have an insiders perspective and when discussing things like "they are all evil" yes, I can talk down to such bs.

As a case in point it would the be same as myself going into my hapkido class and sparing with our newest student and I using the most destructive of our techniques and I just smugly tell him as he's lying on the mat with a dislocated knee and two broken arms "ha ha you're hurt and I'm better than you" With that sort of attitude Dojunim would take my belt away and beat me to a pulp first. It's to bad whom ever is above you in your Mason lodge doesn't reprimend you for your attitude.

Listen, if you want to learn thats awesome. If you don't within a few post that can be evident.

You admit that you know nothing of Masonry. Yet you also apparently have a problem with Masons being the dominant force in the forum in regards to these threads.

WE tried many approaches to fair and balanced easy conversating etc, basically ended up talking to people like school children, then most of us came back to our senses and recognized how pathetic some people can be.

Wu Kung had a good thread, don't have time to link right now though.

Now you're making me into a sterotype when I posed a question and thought about a why The Masons would use ATS.

Everyone stereotypes me and my brothers, I think I can do the same.

gtg but il be back

reply to post by Skyfloating


You need to do your homework.

Originally posted by stompk
I want to "gentle down" my approach to the Masons.

I have on simple question that I can't explain to myself logically without
thinking conspiracy.

Why are so many Masons on ATS?

I can think of a little more than a dozen. That's a lot? Out of over 100,000 registered members.

the thread is moved to Secret Societies Forum of which many of the Mods are
Masons.

Almost every thread in the Secret Societies forum is specifically about Masons.
Is this just chance?

Sorry, only 1 mod that is a Mason. Out of 55 staff members. Methinks you are seeing conspiracy where there isn't one.

Originally posted by NelysStar
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

You need to do your homework.

what an outstanding contribution. Perhaps next time you could bother citing something specific you disagree with, and why.

reply to post by intrepid


Which one is a Mason?

Originally posted by stompk
reply to post by intrepid

 

Which one is a Mason?

Why does it matter? If they want us to know, then the'll tell us.

Originally posted by stompk
reply to post by intrepid

 

Which one is a Mason?

If he decides to tell you, fine. If you look around though I don't think it'll be difficult to figure out.

Originally posted by hawk123
Also your dinner shows secrets, which are beyond Above Top Secret.

www.grenswetenschap.nl...

If you do not see them, then you are not at the right degree.

HAHAHA!!!

Now THAT's funny.

You have to have had the "knife and fork" degree conferred upon you to know about dem secrets... Mmmmmm... pie...

Originally posted by Arcticnull
I would think that the Masons would use ATS as a tool to spred as much disinformation about their order as possible.

Sure it's possible. But you have to be careful about your wording, for example: "...the Masons could use..." reads as an idea or possibility. "...the Masons would use..." suggests that you believe that Masons are inherently bad and doesn't leave wiggling room for you to be wrong, which you are.

It also implies that the Masons would have reason and be inclined to spread disinformation, when the truth is that the disinformation is out there already and we didn't put it there; look at freemasonrywatch.org or theforbiddenknowledge.com and it is painfully obvious.

Here's a good gauge: Whatever you read about outlandish Masonic practices, picture George Washington doing that. If it makes you scoff, or laugh, or think to yourself "there's no way..." then there is probably a reason for that and you should explore why.

The more you do that the less actual fact you'll be able to find about them which would eventually turn all of that disinformation into ledgend and latter on myth.

It's really quite brilliant when you think of it. Use a web site dedicated to finding out the truth about secrets and continuiously pump out information that doesn't actually lead someone to the truth.

It's really rather obvious to me that you haven't researched this very much. If you had, and you had compared what the "anti-Masons" have to say with what the Masons themselves say, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, as it is very easy for the moderately intelligent researcher to see which the disinformation is.

In short, there is no reason for Masons to be here than there is for anyone else; however this happens to be a forum where a lot of the posts are directed at one group. For that one group to stand up and defend itself against slander and lies and try to help people understand our Craft is not an unreasonable course of action.

Originally posted by stompk
Which one is a Mason?

Stick around and you'll find out. He isn't bashful about it. In fact he is proud to be a Mason, as are we all.

[edit on 11/16/07 by The Axeman]

To be totally honest I dont frown on you guys for believing in a vast masonic conspiracy. I confess that I used to believe the same a long time ago. I understand the reasoning, I understand the theory, I understand the suspicion. I congratulate you for wanting to find out the truth and nothing but the truth.

But in finding out the truth, act like a real researcher and interview both sides. THEN make up your mind. You will read both sides right here on ATS. None of the anti-masonic stuff is being supressed or hidden. In fact, the internet is full of it. Just read both sides of the story, thats all Im asking.

Good luck in finding some truth.

Just to add one thing:

Imagination is a powerful thing. It will readily fill in any blanks and unknowns. Dont be fooled by the power of your mind to make things appear different than they are. Go ahead and meet and talk to the people you perceive as an enemy so that you neednt rely on imagination for information.

I was wondering what you thought about Black Ops Brethren, specifically

Major Downing

Source

reply to post by Skyfloating

I wish it were so. Im not too fond of Christianity myself and had to kiss the Bible when entering Freemasonry. That almost made me pack my bags and leave again. But what the heck...they are well-meaning.

I have heard this before, about kissing the Bible from other brothers who where of different faiths. In Masonry there is no doubt a huge bias in favor of Christianity, no doubt about it. Personally, I did not mind, the way I see it I was accepting the "message" the book provides, which I believe in profoundly, but not accepting the dogmatic and submissive control the book brings about.

No one can deny the teachings of Christianity are not well meaning.

But for those of us who are not Christian it can seem a little.. I don't know.. demeaning.

To be totally honest I dont frown on you guys for believing in a vast masonic conspiracy. I confess that I used to believe the same a long time ago.

So did I, it was because of ATS I got the different view and joined the Craft. I know of a few other Masons on ATS that are the same way.

Stomp:

I was wondering what you thought about Black Ops Brethren, specifically

[edit on 11/16/2007 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by scientist


I wasn't contributing. Just stating. Scientist.

I've said a lot about the Black Ops Brethren and the BOpFFOr, which are, were, and probably will always be profoundly black operations, despite my detailed recounts. What are the odds that these projects will be leaked or declassified? Well that really depends on all of you. In my lifetime, I expect not to see this stuff brought out, but I feel that if dedicated UFO and Black Ops investigators, in cooperation with the media (naturally) can pry open the history of the 1127th, a veritable Pandora's box of Black Operations will spring forth, literally exposing all of the lies of UFO/alien abductions, and dramatically alter trends in our culture which we take for granted. It will result in a whole new understanding of technology, black operations, and the organization of clandestine operations in government intelligence. If this can be done soon enough, X-day might be averted, as well as the consequent police-state actions planned to coincide with it.

Major Jack Downing Black Ops Brethren Note 6.

Originally posted by stompk
Major Jack Downing Black Ops Brethren Note 6.

I can't see any connection to Masonry in that article at all; unless you count the use of the word "brethren" but that's pretty darn thin. There are plenty of organizations that consider themselves brothers, therefore have "brethren." Methinks you are reaching a bit too far.

I suggest you do a serious investigation into Masonry and what it is and is not.

Check out this thread and let me know how you feel after examining all the information I have provided there. There is a LOT, so it may take some time to review all of it.

To anyone that claims we Masons try to suppress information, please, feel free to visit my thread and then see if you can still make the same claim.

[edit on 11/16/07 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
We all had a hearty laugh because it was difficult to imagine any of us in those positions. I brought up the subject of one of my favourite websites...ATS...and guess what? I was not the only one in the round who enjoys ATS. So we discussed conspiracy-theories for awhile and also the ever lingering question "Why do people think we are involved in all this stuff?". We still dont have an answer but some of us are very amused by it.

Well the reason people think that is because the masons is a large organisation, meaning that not all members of the masons are privy to the same information, power isn't shared easily, and in large organisations it's prudent to keep the majority of the power at the top. For example my uncle was a mason, in the 60's he toured europe as part of a semi successful pop group, he settled down eventually to open his own small bar/hotel, he was an example of the many thousands of very ordinary folk who have joined the masons just to see what the fuss is all about, i really dont think much would be divulged to these people. It could be that the masons have such an open door policy purely so people can come have a look, and do a mighty fine job of dispelling all these myths there are about the masons.

And i feel i should clarify my own position, in the above i'm only stating possiblities, the reason why a lot of conspiracy people might come to the conclusion that the masons is an evil SS, it does not reflect my own opinion about the masons. (since i do not have one)

Originally posted by unnamedninja


Well the reason people think that is because the masons is a large organisation, meaning that not all members of the masons are privy to the same information, power isn't shared easily, and in large organisations it's prudent to keep the majority of the power at the top.

The thing is, in Masonry, "the top" changes continuously. The Masonic fraternity is governed by a Grand Lodge, which in turn is governed by a Grand Master and other Grand Lodge officers. Any Master Mason in the jurisdiction who is a Past Master is eligible to announce his candidacy, and run for any elective Grand Lodge office, including Grand Master, which is the highest ranking Masonic official within the jurisdiction.

The terms of holding office are set forth in the Grand Lodge's Constitution, and these officials are elected by the membership. Thus, Masonic government is a democratic process, and is in fact a large part of what the US Constitution was originally based on (the first book published in the colonies was "The Constitutions of the Free Masons" by Benjamin Franklin, who himself would eventually become Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania).

As to being privy to the same information, all Masonic teachings are expounded through ritual, and the Mason receives his information by being initiated. Therefore, every regular Mason in the world is privy to the same information.