Box within a Box within a Box theory?

A very intelligent and entertaining individual with questionable professional credentials and possibly even a tenuous hold on reality discussed a Box within a Box within a Box theory with myself and a few friends in a local chess park.

In a few sentences, the theory went that we are projections of a single higher entity beyond us who was fragmented into a Box as we know our reality to be due to either a misunderstanding or a non-malevolent mistake of sorts.

The fragmentation was complete and irrevocable due to causality loop somehow relating to the duality (or non-duality) principle itself which manifested ias part of this mistake.

Not sure about this, but the mistake may have been part of a game or challenge being played out.

To better place things into perspective, this is beyond Alien conspiracy theories and seems to concern a tier one or more "consciousness" levels above us? In this conversation, the Chess Park Guy clumped us and aliens into a single tier of existence, all stuck in this Box/Universe. This Box/Universe being governed by certain laws, i.e. gravity, speed of light, opposing polarities of up/down right/wrong etc.

His focus of conversation went beyond our typical tier of conversation and may be on level with what may have caused the Bing Bang itself... Along with this box there are Boxes positioned laterally to us, beneath us and above us. We are apparently on the 3rd or 4th tier out of 12 or 13 tiers (don't recall the details). Boxes beneath can take on a few different forms. Here is where things get interesting.

For example, if I'm playing a game of chess and I concentrate on the game, I am effectively projecting a portion of my consciousness into the game. This piece now obeys the rules imposed by the Game of Chess. I take on a side and play out the "game" through pieces that I control. Because I am focused on the game, I may "zone in" to the point that I no longer perceive my immediate surroundings. This is an example of me placing myself in a Box within the Box. There were also some offshoots to Boxes concerning less sentient lifeforms on this planet - something about every living thing being "conscious" to the extent of it's Boxes laws/capabilities.

So the nature of the larger game has apparently changed due to the causality loop in place. Now it's about getting out of this Box. Two ways to do it both involve "stopping" the game since it cannot be won. If I recall correctly one way is to stop time which can only happen if everyone who experiences time dies or if we change the nature of our consciousness itself and somehow either evolve out of this particular box or simply change in such a way that the current rules of the universe are no longer compatible with our own state of existence.

He said that the Matrix was somehow close but he "could not" discuss the details. When asked about Alien visitation and what not, he said that our planet is a derelict or "garbage" planet of sorts and beings are "not allowed" to visit here for some reason. Pyramids in Egypt are databases that record each iteration of this Universe's Big Bang - as in, we've been around the block a few times (part of the game?) and the reason why we are "aware" of this particular iteration and not another one is because this one is somehow special and some "mass" was taken out of the universe to prevent the whole thing from collapsing on itself and starting over again. Accordingly, deja vu is our ability to escape the imposed vector of Time and see the continuum from a higher plane... Thoughts create Energy and violate conservation laws. Justification is that food powers our brains to do work but magnitude of thoughts/ideas/fantasies we shape reality with are not accounted for. Universe expands at rate prop to created thoughts...

Crazy stuff right? Has anyone heard of anything similar or can comment/elaborate on any of these statements? Would love to hear some theories or opinions. Thanks in advance

[edit on 14-11-2007 by beast115]

Beast,

Here is one major dilemma with this theory though..........

If we (and all sentient creatures as you say) are the so-called chess pieces, how can it be possible that the chess pieces (us) can know of the chess player?? It is a paradox in an of itself, no!?

Let me put it this way, let's take a dog for example...the dog knows that there are other creatures and so on, but does the dog know that he is a dog??? If so, then doesn't that make for a huge identity crisis to say the least??

My point is, this theory is entertaining, which I assume is its sole purpose....but does it have any rational or even logical foundation? Especially when the so-called lesser minds are actually aware of the greater minds (so to speak of course). Either way, very interesting thread!!

Peace, Mondo

well, my thinking is that things get much more complicated as you move "up" so who's to say that we are not as "acutely" aware of our creators as our dogs are aware of us? even then, it does not need to be so symmetrical.

the point of the chess example was not to solidify the progression of relationships but rather show you can effectively put yourself in a box. Hence, trying to get out of the Box, actively places you into a Box entitled "trying to get out of The Box box" - or something like that. At least that was the Chess Park Guy's theory...

Is it just entertainment? Don't know. A bit more digging and other "replies" might highlight some cohesion and maybe even enlighten the rest of us. Is it grounded in anything real or logical? I can probably concoct some semblance of logic were I his lawyer. He claims he was on a research team working for a some Blackops govt project or the like and these are the bits and pieces that he felt comfortable relaying reduced by the static in my brain as I attempted to regurgitate unto the forum =)

[edit on 15-11-2007 by beast115]

I think both of you guys are on to something.

To respond to Mondo, I feel that certain creatures were given the ability to realize their own existence, for the purpose of eventually becoming the existence. In other words, humans will someday realize that they are a part of God (the outer box) and are therefore capable of godlike acts. The reasons for this are perhaps beyond our comprehension at this time, but one possibility is the outer box wants to experience itself in a limited context only to someday come to a realization that is one with all boxes.

I used to not believe in singularity theories. But then I started to believe that duality is impossible and everything is a singularity. Now I'm starting to wonder if there cant be both a duality+ and singularity of existence simultaneously. This would fit with quantum physics which suggests that two paths can be taken to reach the same outcome.

Beast,

I suppose that you could look at it that way, or really any way for that matter, right? It just seems a bit too concocted to me is all. I like the premise, but then again I believe that is exactly what it is that entices us..this being a small part of the bigger part!

I am sure that you have seen Men in Black?? Well if you watched all the way until the very end you might remember the visual analogy given?? We (humans) were but a small speck of dust on a marble sized world that was being played with by a creature that was insignificant in its own world. That really hit a chord with me then and it still does to a degree now. I mention this because it is a remote parallel to your chess guy theory.

As for your guy being a black ops guy, so does he have intel on the universe and its inner workings or just our own fragmented and destructive world??

Peace, Mondo

[edit on 15-11-2007 by Mondogiwa]

Mundo, totally agree there.

Ultimately no-one can completely prove anything to anyone. In the hypothetical, you can show me all empirical evidence in the world towards anything and I can always fall back on a few "safe" retorts such as, well that whole system of logic was created as a trick or jesus meant it that way =) So, yeah it's possible that even the most clever and profound theory is just another ruse or mechanism by which to entice us and keep us in statis.

Vipassana, the whole duality to singularity and experiencing "yourself" through projected personification is exactly how I tend to think about it as well. Maybe it's all about self-assertion and growth through flux...

Sometimes I wonder, if there is a One of which we are a part of, is he/she looking down at his/her "feet" with a sad look on his/her face asking us not to worship him/her but to simply commiserate in sympathetic acknowledgment of the mess that "I" got myself into =)

[edit on 15-11-2007 by beast115]

[edit on 15-11-2007 by beast115]

reply to post by beast115


Very nice. Deep thoughts there.

Hence, trying to get out of the Box, actively places you into a Box entitled "trying to get out of The Box box"

An interesting thought. You know mankind's (or any living organism/entity) final hurdle (if attainable) would certainly be to escape this universe. Afterall, scientists predict the universe will someday end. No matter how advanced humans become, they will still have to deal with that in the far future. Otherwise... GAME OVER

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Afterall, scientists predict the universe will someday end.

But how could the universe just "end?" Then there would just be nothing? This stuff is crazy. Just really think for a minute what it means for there to be nothing forever. I guess it's possible, but I just can't see that happening.

As for the box theory and the consciousness theories, I don't see where people get this stuff from. How are they supposed to know for sure that we even have souls and different consciousness' and all that stuff? As far as I can tell, everything is on a real and physical level. I can knock on this desk in front of me because it exists and I exist and we are both made up of solid matter. I have never experienced another dimension so I don't even see how my brain can even comprehend such a thing, let alone entities being put in boxes and "projecting" us.


[edit on 15-11-2007 by Diplomat]

Scramjet, Stephen Baxter deals with the "end" of the Universe in a very physical sense in his Manifold series.

Diplomat, we get it from our creative minds - banging on the desk gets boring after a while...

Well maybe the end of the universe is how a big bang happens ? Scientist have no clue how the big bang happened so here is my theory . It was the end of one universe that gave the energy and matter to create a big bang , and thats how it goes forever in circles , one universe dies only for another to be born . This quote sums it all up nicely " All this has happened before , and will happen again"

reply to post by Thill


Actually modern physics postulates that we are a white hole... the oppostie of a black hole. We "budded" off another universe.

Beast115-

Stopping time might be inevitable. Once the universe starts to go (either by fire or ice) it will kill everything in it. With no conscious living beings to experience time, perhaps it will become non-existant?

reply to post by Scramjet76


Actually modern physics knows as much about our universe and its creation/destruction as I know about zeticulan alien invaders from planet nebulus so I think everybodies guess is as good

The concept presented by the OP sounds familiar. Now just replace "box" with "dimension". We may very well be multidimensional entities. We fragment ourselves to experience the lower dimensions. At the highest, we're one/god, so to speak. At the lower levels, we experience more individuality. Part of this experience is forgetting who we are on the higher levels. Life in the 3rd dimension is much like a video game... only more immersive because you forget it's just a game.

reply to post by Thill


Very true but I did use the word "postulates ."

And I think a theoretical physicist would be better at theorizing than most.

black holes within black holes within black holes ad infinitum.

are we in a singularity within a singularity within a singularity ad infinitum?

who knows who knows who knows???.

Yes, I do think Box and Dimension are interchangeable terms. Box just seemed to convey "boundaries" to me better as it was relayed to me. One other thing the Chess Park Guy kept emphasizing (so much so that I somehow omitted it) was that "the point of this game is to express Uniqueness". Something to do with resonance fields. We are each trying to create the world not in the biblical "his" image, but in "my unique" image. So, is God an Ultimate Uniqueness? Isn't a singularity an Ultimate Uniqueness too? So, becoming "one" with the "whole" is about "expanding" into a singularity?

Perhaps orthogonal to the above but on a quantum level information/message passing seems to be an expression of resonance. This is how String theory makes sense to me. Perhaps it's resonance that allows particles to communicate instantaneously across space and time? But anyway, conflicting but organized resonance patterns (to the degree that they form competing individualities) is evolution?

So, to that end, in "proper" doses, conflict enables evolution but when abused, at best, hinders it. Two sides of the same coin. Any thoughts on this?

The story of Adam and Eve it's written in our genes if you search for it deeply enough from within, because as the lord says, 'man had become like us' knowing Good and bad, but the point of man is that we knew and can not control it so God had to seperate from us as a safety valve.

[edit on 16-11-2007 by The time lord]