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Dissidents: We will shoot more police

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posted on Nov, 14 2007 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Sky watcher
 


Why should the minority faction force a change against the majority?

Why give in to terrorists demands? Is that something you would usually do?




posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 12:58 AM
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Someone mentioned the conflict arising from religion...this is just a small part of it. I think the main reason for the conflict is that people descended from the Irish nobility have an issue with the Cromwellian confiscations and wish to see their homelands restored.

The whole Irish-British conflict will probably never end.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 04:10 AM
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Hi all,

It is only now that i actually understand the lack of knowledge that some ATS posters have about the things they post on, the main reason is that i was born in belfast and now after 25 years of being in this "conflict Zone" i can say that i have a fairly well rounded view of it all.

I hope to stick to facts not speculation pull me up on it if i stray.



The "religious" aspect came about when part of occupied Ireland gained independance - what is now southern Ireland, or the republic of Ireland - the british government imported hundreds of thousands of scottish protestants into northern ireland so they would never lose an election, as the 2 groups protestant and catholic would be on opposite sides. So as long as the protestant imported scots always outnumbered the indigenous people (who were mostly catholic) the people of occupied northern Ireland could never win independance and be reunited with the south. This was done for purely economic reasons as at that time, belfast in particular had heavy industry and shipping in particular that was essential to the british war machine.


There is some truth in this statement, Belfast lough is the only deep water port of its type in Europe, its was tactically a very important resource, hence its bombing in 1941 by the Germans and it was the centre of that area of northern irelands economy.

The "indigenous" people of Ireland depending on how far back you want to go are certainly not those who live in the north today, i know some protestants that are more Irish than those who claim to be republicans, so religion and ethnic origin are not the same.




what is now southern Ireland, or the republic of Ireland - the british government imported hundreds of thousands of scottish protestants into northern ireland so they would never lose an election, as the 2 groups protestant and catholic would be on opposite sides


well it is true that the british exported people from the "mainland", however this was done for religious reasons in england, much like Austraila and America after, those who opposed the crown where often deported, and then the oppressed follow, presbyterians where the main oppressed group that came over and settled in "mainly" Antrim and Down.

It should also be pointed out that these oppressed people where not poor, often better off than the people they where going to live along beside. This meant that quite alot of business owners in belfast where in fact protestant, this was the case from the 1700's when the settling of ireland happened, until the 1960's, obiviously some catholics owned businesses but the majority where protestant. This meant that its was difficult for catholics to work in those industries, if you scratch the surface the stories you can find out are amazing, so thats the pre WWI story. And that only a breif explaination.

Knowledge is power; wisdom is not gained through knowledge



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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I am from Belfast, and I have lived here my whole life so I know more so than most people what the whole situation here is. People somehow forget that for hundreds of years England ruled this country (now just Northern Ireland) and they killed and oppressed millions of people here. You could compare it in a sense to USA going in to Iraq and saying'right lads we run this country now', only the english did it here for a long time and still do unfortunately. Let's just say some people here still live in the past and area little disgruntled about the whole situation. Most of us here look to the future as opposed to the past and are more than aware that 'an eye for an eye makes everyone blind'. The whole dissident republican thing is basically a bunch of men in their 40s, 50s and 60s as well a bunch of younger thugs who unknowing to them will probably be the fall-guys if any police actually do get shot, who still think that there is a war going on between england and ireland. There are always going to be a few bad apples in every bunch. It's quite sad that these people still exist and basically what I'm saying here is that it is only about 0.0001% of the population here who somehow think like this. It's quite pathetic really. If only they knew that we are all the same from an energy perspective and that someday when their physical bodies stop functioning they will have to view and feel their own actions in their life-reviews and will no doubt have to answer to The Creator; not though punishment but by The Creator ensuring these energy spheres (souls) feel the pain and hurt they have caused others. It's inevitable. Peace.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 11:12 AM
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My parents left Northern Ireland before I was born because they didn't want me to grow up in a society based around terrorism and violence.

It's fair to say, that both sides are bad as each other. Republicans and Loyalists spent years creating a culture of violence, sadly a few minor idiots wish to continue the troubles of the past.

Hopefully, PSNI do enough to combat these dissidents.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that the RIRA are shooting Catholic police officers. This linked with the fact that "true" republicans think that Catholics shouldn't join the police force here because of the years of collusion with loyalist paramilitaries and some republicans say the IRA shouldn't of gave up their weapons. I would also like to add that no loyalist terrorist organisation has said they are going to decommision any weapons, they said they are putting them beyond reach, which is not the same thing. I believe members of the IRA thought the Sinn Fein leadership sold them and republicanism down the river and left the mainstrean republican groups to join the RIRA or start new terrorist organisations.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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Let's just deal with the reality of the situation; whether it was right or wrong, for hundreds of years there has been immigration between Ireland and Scotland, (and too a much lesser extent Wales). This started centuries before the split from the Roman Catholic Church.
Yes, Cromwell continued the policy, but it wasn't anything new.
But get real, this was hundreds of years ago.
How long do people want to live in the past.

The simple fact of the matter is that today, here and now, the vast majority of inhabitants of Northern Ireland, who's families have lived there for generations, wish to remain within the British Union.
No amount of whinging, whining or moaning is going to change that.
And certainly no amount of bombs will either!
These terrorists will never bomb Britain into submission, if anything it will strengthen British resolve.

Southern Ireland has been independant since 1922, approaching a hundred years.
They have not only re-established their own culture but have forced through modernisation programmes which have helped The Republic become a respected member of the world community.

Northern Ireland has enjoyed it's longest period of relative peace for some time and is being re-juvenated.
Whilst vestiges of the old distrust obviously still remains, the vast majority are starting live peacefully side by side.
This must be encouraged.

The terrorists, from both sides have long since stopped beong religous fanatics. They became glorified hoodlums and drug pushers who used terror to control their communities.
They have manipulated the romantic Irish nature by using imagery and art to portray "the rebel" or "the loyalist" as some kind of religous martyr.
These are the self same tactics that are turning thousands of Muslims into terrorists.
Irish terrorists are no different at all from Al-Qaida etc.

It is no different to Mexicans in Texas bombing innocent Americans and demanding the return of Texas to Mexico, (except Northern Ireland has been part of The British Union for far longer than Texas has been part of the USA!)

To suggest that Northern Ireland is the last remnant of British colonialism is naive.
Northern Ireland is not a British Colony.
Northern Ireland is PART of Britain.
A very big difference.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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Speaking as one living here in Ireland (the Southern Part- but with relatives living in Belfast) I believe I can safely say- there will be no large scale return to the violence of the 1980s and early 90s.
Times have changed, mindsets have changed, the so called Terrorist "Armies" from both sides, are by now little more than drug dealers and criminals, people with no large scale support.
During the 1970s, 80s and early 90s, both sides- Republican and Loyalist, had fairly significant support from their respective communities, Political leaders in the main, did not speak to each other, the situation required a massive security force presence all over the North.
The militants of this era had logisital and material support from overseas, and the home grown finance to make use of it, these days the current miltants are much smaller, have less expertise, almost no public support, and are wrecked by internal disputes.
They can give themselves any grand title they like, but they are just criminals without virtually any support whatsever, in fact more people here in Ireland support English Football teams than ever before !


I personnaly regard the people of the North (and indeed Britain ) as true friends of Ireland.
So please- all forum members, dont think we, the Irish and Ulster people, are all going back to the bad old days - we are not.



posted on Nov, 15 2007 @ 11:36 PM
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Even the Queen is descended from Irish Nobility. I believe she has a link to Niall Of The Nine Hostages. It's nice knowing that the blood of the nobility of Ireland flows through the Queens veins!



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 12:30 AM
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Could it be that this murdered police was either involved with or about to reveal some RIRA etc. groups drug affairs... I somehow feel that this murder was business related, not a political one.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


With England such a bunch of pansies, I cannot see them stopping the Irish, And being an Irishman Myself, I would love to see Ireland united. I currently see no means for England to stop this from happening if they cannot even stop bombs going off in their capitol, which is "oh so happily" watched over like big brother in every corner by a camera.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by northwolf
 


The members of the PSNI where not murdered, just shot, one with a shotgun then they tried to shot him in the head with a pistol but the gun jammed, the second guy was shot in the shoulder. I had to give mzrti a star for his/her post about the fact that it was catholic police that where shot! This is the main fact of the matter, the RIRA will have no support for doing these things the majority of catholics and protestants condemn all actions like this, it is just the wasters who are now "terrorists", i think that they should be treated in the same way as anyother international terrorist as see how they will feel about trying to shoot people then.



posted on Nov, 17 2007 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


And where has that attitude ever got you?
Centuries of grief.

The English pansies?
I don't think so, but where is the relevance?

The strength of your arguement is overwhelmning.



posted on Nov, 17 2007 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by infinite
 


With England such a bunch of pansies, I cannot see them stopping the Irish, And being an Irishman Myself, I would love to see Ireland united. I currently see no means for England to stop this from happening if they cannot even stop bombs going off in their capitol, which is "oh so happily" watched over like big brother in every corner by a camera.


lets not downgrade the thread into uneducated childish insults towards a nationality shall we?



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
With England such a bunch of pansies, I cannot see them stopping the Irish, And being an Irishman Myself, I would love to see Ireland united. I currently see no means for England to stop this from happening if they cannot even stop bombs going off in their capitol, which is "oh so happily" watched over like big brother in every corner by a camera.


Ah, yes, the pansie English. These would be the same English who conquered Ireland and "ruled it with an iron fist" for several centuries?

Your argument is self defeating and childish.

As for the rest of the post, ill-informed and insulting rubbish. Do try to formulate a coherent argument with correct spelling and grammar in future.

For instance, it's Capital, not capitol. If you don't know the difference, ask your mum to buy you a dictionary.



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