I will not digg this story- but not because it lacks competence or credible pause. Like so many theories- there is much truth in it- however, I am not
letting our administration off the hook so easily and neither are the rest of the people.
Your article was brilliantly constructed and your theories carry an intelligent feasibility- yet again, the committal remains weak and several key
elements have been left out in the rain as if they did not matter- or, gracefully swept under the carpet by a charming and unassuming janitor with an
incredible grasp on the English language.
The PUT options on the airlines, the thermite, and the support beams which were found cut at the appropriate controlled demolition angles, and Larry
Silverstein's orders then careful "re-framing" of what he supposedly meant when he said THEY had decided to pull the building. The BBC reporting
the building WT-7 as having collapsed 7 minutes before it actually did. These facts cannot be dismissed, and they certainly were not addressed in your
eloquent theory.
There is another fact that has gone unchallenged- and it is usually dismissed and/or buried on the RARE event it is ever mentioned at all. This fact
is:
Not one of the airlines were downgraded to a DC-10- not one. Each airline will downgrade to a smaller plane when the passenger capacity is less than a
minimal percentage. Each airline had a passenger manifest with less than half of the required passengers to be profitable.
Many times when I flew on business- my scheduled flight was either moved to another gate at nearly the last minute (because a smaller plane was at
that gate) or the flight was delayed until a DC-10 arrived. When you travel a great deal for business- this is something that becomes more frequent
than not!
The most shocking part is that at times these planes have no choice but to fly at less capacity- but never do they fly 747, 757, or 767's at only 1/3
capacity- and if by a long shot this must occur this would be a RARE event- it certainly would not happen with all the planes as it DID on 9/11.
There is far too much information missing to be able to speculate of 9/11. But there certainly are enough unanswered questions to cause not only
alarm- but severe distrust- especially when comparing it to the "Official" report. Hence the nuts begin to draw their own conclusion based solely on
available evidence. Just like the JFK magic bullet theory which has been accepted as the "Official" account for his assassination- which is
bull#.
It saddens me to say that the available evidence is leading to some rather nefarious and reprehensible actions of our own administration.
The destruction of the WTC was actually necessary for many reasons. For one the WTC1-2 were condemned and were enormous money losers. It was actually
far cheaper to bring them down than it would have been to bring them up to code. WTC-7 being pulled was an afterthought which would protect many a
crook due to the nature of evidence (Such as Enron) was filed there. A happy coincidence? You know Enron private jets flew George Bush around during
his campaign!
3,000 people died that day. Those 3,000 innocent people also died horribly. And it is for those 3,000 innocent people- that we truthers will not rest
until they are honored with the truth. The powers that be shall perish in their ignorance and shall suffer for putting such a low price on the heads
of innocent working Americans.
The manipulations of war have little to do with 9/11- which was purely a financial decision which could also be milked for WAR value by support from
an unsuspecting and terrified public.
A public who now wants and deserves to know the truth. I wonder if anyone has the courage to speak it.
[edit on 14-11-2007 by dk3000]
[edit on 14-11-2007 by dk3000]
[edit on 14-11-2007 by dk3000]
[edit on 14-11-2007 by dk3000]
The Real 9/11 Conspiracy, The Invention of Islamic Terrorism, page 4
privacy
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 02:23 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by dk3000
I am not in disagreement with you. We have just not yet reached that point in taking this apart piece by piece. I intend to try, in my own methodical way, to uncover each and every available part of the puzzle. To view each piece in and of itself, and in context with the other pieces.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Many is the "truther", feeling justice weighing heavy, who would have a rush to judgment. But in so doing, many are left to wonder at the parts of the picture not shown. I have but lain the groundwork here. We have yet to study what happened on that day, and are but touching lightly on 9/11 itself in this thread.
But come, journey with us. As long as those who seek truth remain divided, there must be 3,000 ghost that haunt the New York nights. As long as those who seek the truth remain divided, the guilty will never be exposed. We must journey toward the light together, wherever the road may lead.
I am not in disagreement with you. We have just not yet reached that point in taking this apart piece by piece. I intend to try, in my own methodical way, to uncover each and every available part of the puzzle. To view each piece in and of itself, and in context with the other pieces.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Many is the "truther", feeling justice weighing heavy, who would have a rush to judgment. But in so doing, many are left to wonder at the parts of the picture not shown. I have but lain the groundwork here. We have yet to study what happened on that day, and are but touching lightly on 9/11 itself in this thread.
But come, journey with us. As long as those who seek truth remain divided, there must be 3,000 ghost that haunt the New York nights. As long as those who seek the truth remain divided, the guilty will never be exposed. We must journey toward the light together, wherever the road may lead.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 06:59 PM by bergle
reply to post by NGC2736
This could be a long and interesting thread.....thumbs up OP.....
From outside of the USA proper, there seems to be much more of a concensus that it was an inside job......perhaps there is an element of the issue being too emotionally close to everyones desire for their homeland to be the place that they expect it to be.I think this is a case of the expectations being unrealistic in nature in the first place.
For me the issue seems to have boiled down to one question, and that is"Is the current and past crop of Goverment personel morally capable of such an act as to sacrifice these 3000 citizens for the sake of political and financial gains?"(when i say financial i mean wealth beyond dreams of avarice)(check the profits on the put options alone.....never mind what excellent advantage knowing about 9/11 in advance would be to an unscrupulous financier of means.........
My conclusion regretfully is yes, the present and past administrations of the US Gov, given the opportunity to pull this off, would in my estimation do it two out of three times.....
I of course mean the very highest of goverment people.....not the ordinary civil servant.....
It seems far more obvious the the world at large that the 9/11 event , was , and still is, an inside job.for i think you will find many who agree that it is ongoing and not nearly over yet.......
The sad thing about 9/11 is that not only did it cause many outside the country to "give up"on America.....It has caused in its aftermath many to also "give up "on americans.....
Though there was a time when we had looked up to the american people to display personal leadership in the functions of democracy......the constitution being very explicit....and Americans being very well armed privately.
However we have seen them fold into the woodwork and quietly assent to the type of manipulations through which Hitler once rose to power.
Remember the reichstag fire?
It is my humble opinion that things have progressed so far in america that Totalitarian rule may be inevitable, before the citizens awaken to take back their rights......if they are then able to do so.......
The world views the 9/11 event as a line in the sand for Americans, and secretly hopes they are up to the task of rooting out the evil forces which caused this tradgedy.
Be they foriegn or domestic......
bergle
This could be a long and interesting thread.....thumbs up OP.....
From outside of the USA proper, there seems to be much more of a concensus that it was an inside job......perhaps there is an element of the issue being too emotionally close to everyones desire for their homeland to be the place that they expect it to be.I think this is a case of the expectations being unrealistic in nature in the first place.
For me the issue seems to have boiled down to one question, and that is"Is the current and past crop of Goverment personel morally capable of such an act as to sacrifice these 3000 citizens for the sake of political and financial gains?"(when i say financial i mean wealth beyond dreams of avarice)(check the profits on the put options alone.....never mind what excellent advantage knowing about 9/11 in advance would be to an unscrupulous financier of means.........
My conclusion regretfully is yes, the present and past administrations of the US Gov, given the opportunity to pull this off, would in my estimation do it two out of three times.....
I of course mean the very highest of goverment people.....not the ordinary civil servant.....
It seems far more obvious the the world at large that the 9/11 event , was , and still is, an inside job.for i think you will find many who agree that it is ongoing and not nearly over yet.......
The sad thing about 9/11 is that not only did it cause many outside the country to "give up"on America.....It has caused in its aftermath many to also "give up "on americans.....
Though there was a time when we had looked up to the american people to display personal leadership in the functions of democracy......the constitution being very explicit....and Americans being very well armed privately.
However we have seen them fold into the woodwork and quietly assent to the type of manipulations through which Hitler once rose to power.
Remember the reichstag fire?
It is my humble opinion that things have progressed so far in america that Totalitarian rule may be inevitable, before the citizens awaken to take back their rights......if they are then able to do so.......
The world views the 9/11 event as a line in the sand for Americans, and secretly hopes they are up to the task of rooting out the evil forces which caused this tradgedy.
Be they foriegn or domestic......
bergle
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 07:13 PM by syrinx high priest
reply to post by dk3000
"The PUT options on the airlines, the thermite, and the support beams which were found cut at the appropriate controlled demolition angles, and Larry Silverstein's orders then careful "re-framing" of what he supposedly meant when he said THEY had decided to pull the building. The BBC reporting the building WT-7 as having collapsed 7 minutes before it actually did. These facts cannot be dismissed, and they certainly were not addressed in your eloquent theory."
wow, welcome to 2007. Everything you mention has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, the "pull" quote resulted in Alex Jones being exposed as a total fraud, as he omitted the part where the contruction worker syas "it's not every day you pull down a building with cables
"The PUT options on the airlines, the thermite, and the support beams which were found cut at the appropriate controlled demolition angles, and Larry Silverstein's orders then careful "re-framing" of what he supposedly meant when he said THEY had decided to pull the building. The BBC reporting the building WT-7 as having collapsed 7 minutes before it actually did. These facts cannot be dismissed, and they certainly were not addressed in your eloquent theory."
wow, welcome to 2007. Everything you mention has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, the "pull" quote resulted in Alex Jones being exposed as a total fraud, as he omitted the part where the contruction worker syas "it's not every day you pull down a building with cables
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 07:42 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by bergle
I am seeking, with the help of all those here, to do what has not been done. To critically view each argument, view the evidence, and decide what portion, or all of it, is beyond a reasonable doubt. And then to take those separate pieces and try to assemble a picture of what led up to 9/11, who the major players were, and what the motivation of these people seems to be at that time.
Each theory will be looked at one at a time, in an effort to see if they fit the overall picture in any way. Some theories will naturally be discarded as we move along. But not without taking at least a look at them IF there is some evidence that does not require a great leap of faith. I'm not in the faith business.
But America hasn't fallen. We're human, and we have human shortcomings, among which is to be lazy when we think we can. But America is also known for coming awake and shaking the world. The average American is still the same personality as ever; caring and trusting. We even trust our leaders, sometimes to our rue. But don't think that we have changed enough to allow atrocity, even by our own, to go unchallenged.
In the coming weeks, I will put out threads on 9/11 dealing with as many aspects of this event as is possible. I am sure that as I write on each subject, I will receive input from others here, views for what is true and what is not. And each particle of input will be viewed with all of it's supporting evidence.
In the end, it is my hope that we will finally have a clearer picture of what 9/11 was all about.
I am seeking, with the help of all those here, to do what has not been done. To critically view each argument, view the evidence, and decide what portion, or all of it, is beyond a reasonable doubt. And then to take those separate pieces and try to assemble a picture of what led up to 9/11, who the major players were, and what the motivation of these people seems to be at that time.
Each theory will be looked at one at a time, in an effort to see if they fit the overall picture in any way. Some theories will naturally be discarded as we move along. But not without taking at least a look at them IF there is some evidence that does not require a great leap of faith. I'm not in the faith business.
But America hasn't fallen. We're human, and we have human shortcomings, among which is to be lazy when we think we can. But America is also known for coming awake and shaking the world. The average American is still the same personality as ever; caring and trusting. We even trust our leaders, sometimes to our rue. But don't think that we have changed enough to allow atrocity, even by our own, to go unchallenged.
In the coming weeks, I will put out threads on 9/11 dealing with as many aspects of this event as is possible. I am sure that as I write on each subject, I will receive input from others here, views for what is true and what is not. And each particle of input will be viewed with all of it's supporting evidence.
In the end, it is my hope that we will finally have a clearer picture of what 9/11 was all about.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 07:47 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by never_tell
Crime is a part of most governments. We must never become complacent about that fact, and ought always try to root it out. But as long as humans have had parasites in our intestines, we've had crime in government. You can't entirely rid the body of either, but sickness comes when they grow too numerous, and too bold.
Crime is a part of most governments. We must never become complacent about that fact, and ought always try to root it out. But as long as humans have had parasites in our intestines, we've had crime in government. You can't entirely rid the body of either, but sickness comes when they grow too numerous, and too bold.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 07:50 PM by never_tell
reply to post by NGC2736
sickness also comes when one speaks too loud and gets his head lopped off... trying to slow down crime on those levels is like damning a river with your foot... just ain't going to happen... good hobby though, until someone gets hurt
sickness also comes when one speaks too loud and gets his head lopped off... trying to slow down crime on those levels is like damning a river with your foot... just ain't going to happen... good hobby though, until someone gets hurt
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 07:58 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by never_tell
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Fear is the weapon of choice of the truly weak. And if this is the outcome, then so be it; nobody gets out of life alive anyway.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Fear is the weapon of choice of the truly weak. And if this is the outcome, then so be it; nobody gets out of life alive anyway.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 08:18 PM by never_tell
reply to post by NGC2736
evil triumphs because they own all the weapons.... same as it ever was... btw, "evil" is all relevant anyway, isn't it? on man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.. doesn't often occur to "nice" people to take advantage of others or fire bullets at them... regardless of how "mad" one becomes...
in context of the 9/11 discussion, does anyone think it really matters who did it? will anything change? no... if someone gets caught they'll be thrown to the wolves... people will shout in triumph, all the while, other crimes will be commited while man is busy watching Larry King ask the criminals "why'd you do it?" ... lemmings all
evil triumphs because they own all the weapons.... same as it ever was... btw, "evil" is all relevant anyway, isn't it? on man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.. doesn't often occur to "nice" people to take advantage of others or fire bullets at them... regardless of how "mad" one becomes...
in context of the 9/11 discussion, does anyone think it really matters who did it? will anything change? no... if someone gets caught they'll be thrown to the wolves... people will shout in triumph, all the while, other crimes will be commited while man is busy watching Larry King ask the criminals "why'd you do it?" ... lemmings all
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 08:22 PM by Chilibones
reply to post by NGC2736
At Last a real voice of reason.....eliminate that which cannot be.....and you will be led to the truth.....sound familiar?.....I'll be watching for NGC2736...and paying attention.
At Last a real voice of reason.....eliminate that which cannot be.....and you will be led to the truth.....sound familiar?.....I'll be watching for NGC2736...and paying attention.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 08:50 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by never_tell
The cynic may have a longer run in the park, but he'll always wear the leash. I chose to take my chances, in my sunset years, and seek truth.
The cynic may have a longer run in the park, but he'll always wear the leash. I chose to take my chances, in my sunset years, and seek truth.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 10:00 PM by never_tell
reply to post by NGC2736
lol... seek the truth? i've already told you what that was... me thinks you're in denial my optomistic friend... anyway, who says they don't have the "right" to be evil... afterall, you have the option not to be... sounds a bit authoritarian not to allow people to shoot other people, or to steal from you... doesn't it? not saying I like it, but who am i to disagree... lots of things i don't like... walks in the park, for instance....
i believe we've stayed waaayyy off topic here... did the US create Islamic fundamentalism? no, they merely harnessed it for their own purposes... next
[edit on 14-11-2007 by never_tell]
lol... seek the truth? i've already told you what that was... me thinks you're in denial my optomistic friend... anyway, who says they don't have the "right" to be evil... afterall, you have the option not to be... sounds a bit authoritarian not to allow people to shoot other people, or to steal from you... doesn't it? not saying I like it, but who am i to disagree... lots of things i don't like... walks in the park, for instance....
i believe we've stayed waaayyy off topic here... did the US create Islamic fundamentalism? no, they merely harnessed it for their own purposes... next
[edit on 14-11-2007 by never_tell]
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 10:02 PM by NGC2736
reply to post by never_tell
They also have the right to an attorney, the right to remain silent, and the right to a bible in their cell. I hope all these rights are remembered.
They also have the right to an attorney, the right to remain silent, and the right to a bible in their cell. I hope all these rights are remembered.
reply posted on 14-11-2007 @ 10:09 PM by never_tell
reply to post by NGC2736
well, none of that will be worth spit when it really matters...
btw, I'm not a cynic... I'm a realist
well, none of that will be worth spit when it really matters...
btw, I'm not a cynic... I'm a realist
reply posted on 15-11-2007 @ 12:21 AM by OutShine
Originally posted by never_tell
reply to post by NGC2736
well, none of that will be worth spit when it really matters...
btw, I'm not a cynic... I'm a realist
Then please inject some realism into your rhetoric.
First of all, excellent post NGC2736. I admire the ambition of your goals. If you don't mind, I'd like to take up a point on your behalf.
Now for the realism. It's worth noting that as far as I can see, NGC never claimed that "evildoers" do not have the "right" to pursue their interests.
More importantly, there is nothing inherently totalitarian about the democratic rule of law telling a group of people they can't do something, or outlawing a particular set of behaviors. Rights have nothing to do with it.
We elect representatives to pass, modify, and hopefully upgrade laws that designate certain acts--murder, theft, assault--as illegal. They do this because such acts reflect the reasonable consensus of the majority of the population.
People have the right to do whatever they like, but if they do things that a whole lot of other people think is evil, that majority has a system in place to deal with the minority evildoers.
This is about as far from authoritarian as it gets.
Now before you freak out, I readily admit that there are fundamental problems with this system. It often fails to consistently reflect popular consensus, or even pursue the best interests of its constituents. Furthermore, there are countless examples of inefficiency, surreptitiousness, corruption and other underhandedness in our nation's history that we might readily characterize as evil, and probably more that we don't even know about.
It is also undeniable that we are drifting steadily away from our popular democratic moorings.
However, your claim that it is authoritarian to outlaw the acts you mentioned is ridiculous. Certainly, popular support is accurately reflected in the laws regarding murder or assault, and theft.
I have no problem with your assertion that the entire planet is run by criminal gangs--I'd love to hear some details--but don't dismiss the alternate lines of inquiry.
There's a lot that's "new" here.
Edit for spelling.
[edit on 15-11-2007 by OutShine]
reply posted on 15-11-2007 @ 07:02 AM by GreenFloyd
reply to post by dk3000
Of course, dk3000 is reffering to the four, 9/11 flights.
Here's what I found after a few minutes on Google...
911Timeline.net...
This is the first I've seen this issue. A new coincidence? Has anyone else gotten into this? If so please report.
[edit on 15-11-2007 by GreenFloyd]
There is another fact that has gone unchallenged... Not one of the airlines were downgraded to a DC-10- not one. Each airline will downgrade to a smaller plane when the passenger capacity is less than a minimal percentage. Each airline had a passenger manifest with less than half of the required passengers to be profitable.
Of course, dk3000 is reffering to the four, 9/11 flights.
Here's what I found after a few minutes on Google...
The 4 airliners of September 11th, 2 Boeing 767’s and 2 Boeing 757’s had a total passenger seating capacity of 762 people. There are only 229 passengers and crew members on the four death lists, so, how could these flights possibly be 70% empty?
911Timeline.net...
This is the first I've seen this issue. A new coincidence? Has anyone else gotten into this? If so please report.
[edit on 15-11-2007 by GreenFloyd]
reply posted on 15-11-2007 @ 07:41 AM by NGC2736
reply to post by sigung86
This is the real world that I occupy. I think that , for the most part, people are people. Just as right here on ATS, most people are nice, decent, caring individuals. And then there are a few flaming retards and idiots and power grabbers. The good guys outnumber the bad ones, but the bad ones are a lot more active, just like ATS, so there's a balance.
I do feel that governments as a whole naturally attract those that are power hungry. And that once in government, the seduction of power is corrupting. I think most people leave their hometown for some office, with the most honorable of intentions, and along the way sell their soul. Not all, I'm sure, but far too many.
All I want is the truth. Whatever that may be. Whoever may be in the wrong. Whoever may be painted as an idiot that blew their job, or aided the enemy, or sold America out, or was just plain evil; it doesn't matter. I want the truth. Because there are too many odd factors about 9/11 for the truth to be as the government would have it, so somebody is lying about something.
I don't have a pre-set idea of what the truth will be. I don't have a position to validate. I don't have any desire to impress anyone. All I want to do is to find out what went wrong with America that day, and why. So it never happens again.
This is the real world that I occupy. I think that , for the most part, people are people. Just as right here on ATS, most people are nice, decent, caring individuals. And then there are a few flaming retards and idiots and power grabbers. The good guys outnumber the bad ones, but the bad ones are a lot more active, just like ATS, so there's a balance.
I do feel that governments as a whole naturally attract those that are power hungry. And that once in government, the seduction of power is corrupting. I think most people leave their hometown for some office, with the most honorable of intentions, and along the way sell their soul. Not all, I'm sure, but far too many.
All I want is the truth. Whatever that may be. Whoever may be in the wrong. Whoever may be painted as an idiot that blew their job, or aided the enemy, or sold America out, or was just plain evil; it doesn't matter. I want the truth. Because there are too many odd factors about 9/11 for the truth to be as the government would have it, so somebody is lying about something.
I don't have a pre-set idea of what the truth will be. I don't have a position to validate. I don't have any desire to impress anyone. All I want to do is to find out what went wrong with America that day, and why. So it never happens again.
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