Just a little disclaimer, in that I have no reference or link to verify the following, as this info is gleaned from intel info I had access to when I was in the Navy at the time, sorry!:

The Afghani gov't of the time in question was/were semi-allies with the Soviets, and were recieving arms and munitions from the same, along with negotiations going on for basing rights of Soviet assets on Afghani territory. This was because of the proximity of the two, at the time. For those of you too young to be 'in the world' or aware @ the time, the Soviets were having alot of unrest in the Soviet block of Eastern Europe and in the Arabic/Islamic countries to the south. Turkey was and is still an Allied country to the West; if you don't think so, remember WE have/had anti-aircraft 'n anti-balllistic missile assets based there, making the Soviet military VERY uncomfortable, and today we have an inked agreement with Turkey for the Joint Strike Fighter F-35!

Well needless to say, unless you need it and you might, we know how that situation panned out: The 'help' the Soviets sent was a full invasion of Afghanistan. They even helped to gov't there 'elect' a new president and cabinet, as well as 'allowing' them to elect a congress or parliament to pass laws n such.... What they ran into has already been mentioned by yourself. NOBODY has ever, in more than 3000 years, ever successfully invaded Afghanistan or Switzerland, for that matter, mostly because of the mountainous terrain and the fierce fighters therein.

Alongside this also, we were/are romancing/cajoling, whatever you wanna call it, the moslem/islamic/arabic nations of the area. So this situation was perfect for the pro-active CIA and warhawk military of this country to take advantage of, and they didn't even hesitate, not one lick. As a result of this, when the Soviets left their 'Vietnam', the Afghani gov't buddied up a bit more to us/the West. In every case I'm aware of, anytime we have negotiated a 'deal' with, the gov't in question has been repressive and 'we' the U.S. turned a 'blind-eye to the internal affairs' of these nations.... Is it any wonder the factions in Al Queda 'n radical Islam hate us? The restrictions you've probably heard of, No alcohol, sexual intermingling/prostitution etc. are basic to ISLAMIC belief, and here we are, with our protected contractors and the stupider military members doing exactly that. Gentlemen and gentleladies, I'm not saying that 'W', and 'LORD' Cheney, as doonesbury likes it, haven't blown the thing out of proportion, but even you have to admit, the western media sensationalize the facts and figures and actions of everybody and thing to SELL papers/media to the public. This info is out there the public realm, if you track far enough. Peace.

Originally posted by Nunny
You people absolutely DISGUST me!

HOW DARE YOU! I served 23+ years in the military and saw things and KNOW things that I can't mention.

SHAME ON YOU! I served those years for Americans who believed in their country. Not those of you who think we are as bad as or worse than the terrorists themselves!

SHAME ON YOU ALL!

Don't "sugar coat" it! How do you really feel ?

I am sure your noble in your convictions, but when you chose to use CIA standard operation phrases like: How dare you, or Shame on you, it has a tendency to invoke negative reactions from readers, that dismiss any quality points that you wish to express

So, let's see if I understand this.

The CIA and the Bush Administrations used the people involved in Al Qaeda to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan and then used them to attack us so we could have a war on terror against them?

Originally posted by NGC2736
NWRHINO, it always comes back to the whys. And the why is always tied to who gained and who lost in any given exchange.

Exactly, which group of people have benefited the most since 9-11-2001?

military industrial complex

Security firms

Oils research and development

Which groups of people has benefited the least?

Afghanistan

Iraq

Islamic organizations

US Citizens

Of course, This is only circumstantial evidence, but in court if the circumstances lead to only one result, then your guilty!

Originally posted by NWRHINO

Originally posted by NGC2736
NWRHINO, it always comes back to the whys. And the why is always tied to who gained and who lost in any given exchange.

Exactly, which group of people have benefited the most since 9-11-2001?

military industrial complex

Security firms

Oils research and development

Which groups of people has benefited the least?

Afghanistan

Iraq

Islamic organizations

US Citizens

Of course, This is only circumstantial evidence, but in court if the circumstances lead to only one result, then your guilty!

If the CIA was really behind all this, they why did the Plame/Wilson Affair happen to try and discredit the Bush Administration?

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
So, let's see if I understand this.

The CIA and the Bush Administrations used the people involved in Al Qaeda to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan and then used them to attack us so we could have a war on terror against them?

I doubt it was as cut and dried as you so starkly put it. And it is yet to be determined who did the using of who. Nor are we clear on the why. But basically, that is what happened. We, through the actions of the CIA and our political leadership, built a war machine called Al Qeada, and in due time, for whatever reason, this group "turned" on us, and attacked.

The question in the minds of many people must be, when did OBL and the rest stop being CIA assets and become rouge threats? Or is OBL still tied to this agency with it's history of dishonorable actions? And IF there were ongoing ties, who controled the action?

Originally posted by deltaboy

Perhaps its just an innocent plane veering in the wrong direction which would bother the staffer. Think about it.

Sure no problem,

Cheney/Mineta statements show there was an existing order (shoot / no-shoot) covering flight 77.

The staffer’s actions show they had it on radar 50 miles, 3O miles, etc etc.....

Option (A)

The government:

- Had a ‘shoot’ order established at that time, YET the entire air defense system was incapable of knocking a wide body out of the sky as it lumbered back to DC, loitering past the white house, Congress, Pentagon etc. etc.

And as you suggest above the military didn’t want to execute an order, so was asking dick every few miles if he would change his mind…..


Option (B)

Cheney was ‘barking’ to enforce a ‘wait and see policy’?

- Regarding a stray wide body on radar being closely watched by dick’s command post, - ½ hour after every man, woman and child saw commercial jets strike the towers in nyc, a plane with no active transponder, no radio contact with ATC, - after commercial traffic had been ordered to emergency land, and with NORAD fighters in the air.

“Yes the orders still stand”, we will watch this “innocent” plane ........ride its way on in to DC for its unscheduled landing at Dulles, …err, ok it missed that airport, maybe its going to land at Reagan now,….err, its turning again, ....sorry Rummy.





[edit on 14-11-2007 by scrapple]

[edit on 14-11-2007 by scrapple]