Are the Masons Evil?

Originally posted by Izarith
But are you honestly trying to tell me that the degrees from 4th to 33rd are not meant to help a Freemason understand the 3rd degree better?

I would go one step further and say that for me, the "Royal Secret of the 32nd Degree" is specifically a re-framing of the first working tool lecture of the 1st degree (Entered Apprentice). I don't want to spoil it for you if you actually want to join, but if you're convinced Masonry's not for you, look up the lecture on the 24 inch gauge in "Duncan's Ritual", then read chapter 32 of Pike's "Morals & Dogma" and tell me they're not the same lesson taught through different parables.

Are you told of these four types of members?

Do you get to choose which one to be?

Can you choose to be more than one?

When I say there are (at least) 4 types, and I define those types as philanthropists, fraternalists, esotericists and ritualists, these are not strict definitions. They aren't part of the lectures or teachings, and certainly you could be more than one, but they're a way of categorizing the types of men who come to Masonry and what they believe Masonry is. It's actually a distillation of a lecture I heard Ronnie Seale give when he visited my lodge.

The gist of it is this:
For some men, the joy they get out of Freemasonry is being able to give to others...financially or through work performed, often anonymously, for the betterment of someone less fortunate.

For some men, the joy they get out of Freemasonry is the camaraderie of spending time with like-minded brethren, being able to celebrate together during the good times and commiserate together during the bad times.

For some men, the joy they get out of Freemasonry is the never-ending quest for knowledge. The symbology of Masonry is a bottomless well, and a man could spend his life researching, reading or writing on the topic and never lose his sense of wonder.

For some men, the joy they get out of Freemasonry is being able to memorize and execute a ritual with flawless precision and take pride that by learning it and performing it in that way, and teaching the same to the newer members, they're carrying on a tradition that's hundreds of years old.

These are the philanthropists, fraternalists, esotericists and ritualists that I'm talking about. Ask them what they get out it, or why they keep coming back, and a lot of times you'll get variations on one of those answers. Obviously, the real answer is different for every member, so those are just crude pigeon-holes. But the fact is, Masonry is all that and more. None of those men is wrong in his assessment, and as I said, as long as there are members who are getting out of it what they put into it, then it's going to continue on as the tradition that it has become.

reply to post by Izarith

First, I want to address your last request of us telling you our degree. The Master Mason, which is conferred in the Blue Lodge, is the highest degree in all the Masonic bodies. The degrees/orders conferred in the Scottish and York Rite are just additional degrees to enhance your experience as a Master Mason, they are not a hierarchy. I'm a Master Mason, but I'm also in the York Rite, ending in the conferral of the Order of the Temple. I just turned in my petition (though I said I would wait...so much for that) for the Scottish Rite. In the Blue Lodge and York Rite, I hold various positions (local and state level).

You're not lied to nor is expected for you to lie. Truth is something held in high esteem among Masons.

That's a very pessimistic look at man kind. I prefer to think that mankind is good overall, but gives into greed and other temptations.

The 4th degree and on up only apply to the Scottish Rite.

1. As far as I know, my state's never required to ask 3-times.

2. No. The Grand Lecturer of my state did a great job with honing the Lodge's ability to do the esoteric work. The dues are something I hardly think about.

3. Because an oath would not be considered binding unless you have a faith in a higher power.

Here is a link from an Illuminati Defector and Trainer. Her name is SVALI:

She was an insider!
Illuminati Defector Tells All:

reply to post by Duke02


do you realy believe what is on that site?
Serious question, I am not kidding.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Izarith

 

I definitely appreciate your honesty in the whole God thing. I am sure he does as well. Saying you believe in God because that's what you are supposed to do, is fooling nobody but yourself. In Masonry 3 is a very important number. I won't go into all the reasons why because it would be of more value to you to find out on your own, should you ever decide to take that path.

And I appreciate your guys responses. You have helped clear up many years of self contemplating.

I went to a lodge today, one that is near my work and luckily there was an ancient Freemason there struggling with a lock on a recycling dumpster accompanied by his wife. I walked up, said hello and was having a bit of trouble finding the right words to ask about becoming a Freemason. The Man just stared at me frozen until I did, then burst out with with a tone of chatter about his son and lodges and Freemasonry. The Man was so nice that I kind of feel sick having used the words Freemason and evil together in one sentence even tho I was making a point about how Freemasons are not as bad as people say they are.

Anyway I am looking forward to becoming a Freemason. Also I was going a bit to far by saying I'm two pig hairs from being a bum on the street I'm not that bad off. I'm sure I can meet my dues and pay for my advancement and be as charitable as i can.

Waiting untill you are ready is also a very good idea. You will get out of it what you put into it, like most things in life. Just don't get too wrapped up in the hype about the evil thing. Sure masons are just people, and fallible just like anyone, but we as a group are taught to always try to do better. Not better than anyone else, just better than yourself.

I'm sorry I even said the word evil. I can be insensitive at times with my perspective on topics such as what Evil is. To me Evil is not much more than a word used by really Poopy people who are on a witch hunt. But hey we can all be really Poopy people at times.

I have never in my life met a Freemason that was not a genuinely great person. Because of the actions of these Masons I am confident it is a group I would like to be a part off.

Ta!

Izzy.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Izarith]

Originally posted by JoshNorton

I would go one step further and say that for me, the "Royal Secret of the 32nd Degree" is specifically a re-framing of the first working tool lecture of the 1st degree (Entered Apprentice). I don't want to spoil it for you if you actually want to join, but if you're convinced Masonry's not for you, look up the lecture on the 24 inch gauge in "Duncan's Ritual", then read chapter 32 of Pike's "Morals & Dogma" and tell me they're not the same lesson taught through different parables.

I'll pass on looking up the lecture. I have never read any of Pikes stuff at least not knowingly. I don't really like reading about the triad because I felt it would spoil if I some day joined.

I do like reading of both former and current Masons feeling and experiences of Freemasonry.

These are the philanthropists, fraternalists, esotericists and ritualists that I'm talking about. Ask them what they get out it, or why they keep coming back, and a lot of times you'll get variations on one of those answers. Obviously, the real answer is different for every member, so those are just crude pigeon-holes. But the fact is, Masonry is all that and more. None of those men is wrong in his assessment, and as I said, as long as there are members who are getting out of it what they put into it, then it's going to continue on as the tradition that it has become.

I see, thanks for clearing that up. They sound great.

I know a Freemason from Brazil and he had told me of these groups too so I thought that you were given a choice or something.

TA!

Izzy.

reply to post by Izarith


I look forward to hearing your take on why 3 is such an important number. Masonry will be possible the most rewarding thing you will do. Enjoy it.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Izarith

 

First, I want to address your last request of us telling you our degree. The Master Mason, which is conferred in the Blue Lodge, is the highest degree in all the Masonic bodies. The degrees/orders conferred in the Scottish and York Rite are just additional degrees to enhance your experience as a Master Mason, they are not a hierarchy. I'm a Master Mason, but I'm also in the York Rite, ending in the conferral of the Order of the Temple. I just turned in my petition (though I said I would wait...so much for that) for the Scottish Rite. In the Blue Lodge and York Rite, I hold various positions (local and state level).

Ok So to get degrees 1 through 3 I would need to go to a Blue lodge? Or can I go to any lode and get the degrees 1 through 3?

You're not lied to nor is expected for you to lie. Truth is something held in high esteem among Masons.

Yeah I understand this but I do speculate that guiding a man might get to be tricky business sometimes. Again tho I can only speculate.

That's a very pessimistic look at man kind. I prefer to think that mankind is good overall, but gives into greed and other temptations.

Hey I'm not the one who knows secret ways of identifying myself to like minded men to insure I don't face possible extermination. Hopefully I will tho.

I'm kidding the human race is a great bunch of cute cuddly critters, all full of fuzzy wuzzy love for all.........until someone yells witch.

Ah, I'm kidding again we all just need a little guidance sometimes I guess. I just poke fun but everyone does have potential to be really good people. I've always been surrounded by good people but everyone could always learn to be better. I hope for my sake.

Plus my true view is neither pessimistic nor optimistic. To me a human is an extraordinary being capable of anything.

The 4th degree and on up only apply to the Scottish Rite.

How do I get the first three degrees tho? Can I just join any lodge and get them?

1. As far as I know, my state's never required to ask 3-times.

2. No. The Grand Lecturer of my state did a great job with honing the Lodge's ability to do the esoteric work. The dues are something I hardly think about.

3. Because an oath would not be considered binding unless you have a faith in a higher power.

Thanks for the information it is much appreciated. When I'm face to face with a Freemason I always feel a little on edge like I'm at a job interview. I'm glad you guys are on this site, it gives me time to think about what I want to say or ask.

TA!!

Izzy.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Izarith

 

I look forward to hearing your take on why 3 is such an important number. Masonry will be possible the most rewarding thing you will do. Enjoy it.

As do I,

One thing I have noticed about Freemasons is, well I don't know about you guys here but, most Freemasons are super old!

It's like an epic movie where against all odds and demonising rhetoric the young need to wake up at the final through to carry on and learn the empowering knowledge and assume the anonymous status of the superheroes of the world!!

Hey at least it sound cool.

TA!!

Izzy.

Originally posted by Izarith

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Izarith

 

I look forward to hearing your take on why 3 is such an important number. Masonry will be possible the most rewarding thing you will do. Enjoy it.

As do I,

One thing I have noticed about Freemasons is, well I don't know about you guys here but, most Freemasons are super old!


It's like an epic movie where against all odds and demonising rhetoric the young need to wake up at the final through to carry on and learn the empowering knowledge and assume the anonymous status of the superheroes of the world!!

Hey at least it sound cool.

TA!!

Izzy.

I am old. Way old. 40. But the good news is Viking04 is way older than that. Some of these other guys here are in College. Still looking for that trace of wetness to show up behind the listening devices.

reply to post by Izarith


Yes a lot of masons are old. I'm only 26 I joined when I was 24. Also nowadays a lot of young people seem to be joining I've noticed, people aged 20-30 or so.

reply to post by Izarith


Most lodges that you see around cities and towns are regular blue lodges. You meet some of the masons that are members and inquire about joining. Once you are let in it generally takes about 6 months or so for degrees 1-3.

Thanks everyone for the information.

Tomorrow is Monday and I'm going to try to get to a lodge before work to ask and hopefully be accepted to become a Freemason.

Thanks again.

Edit to add a question..

Is there a difference between a Blue lodge and The Scottish rite Lodge?

Is it possible to get the 1st through 3rd degree through the Scottish rite Lodge?

I'm asking because I would like to get more degrees beyond the 3rd, and blue lodges sound more community based. I live in Mexico But I work in the US and understand English better than Spanish so this is the language I would like to learn in. So for right now I would like to join one lodge if I can.


[edit on 12-10-2009 by Izarith]

Originally posted by Izarith

Is there a difference between a Blue lodge and The Scottish rite Lodge?

Is it possible to get the 1st through 3rd degree through the Scottish rite Lodge?

The first three degrees are done at the blue lodge.
The Scottish rite starts at at the fourth degree.

Basically, it works like this:

You join the blue lodge and go through the three degrees (which should take about a year.) You will find that you have to do some learning work for the blue lodge, and most people wait a year or two after completing the first three degrees to catch up on the learning before joining another rite.

While you're in the blue lodge, you will find out everything about the side degrees, and what the focus of each side degree is about. For example, if you're more into the friendship/brotherhood thing and less into esotericism, then you might consider something like the Secret Monitor. If you prefer esoteric Freemasonry, then you might consider something like the Cryptic Degrees. Scottish rite is only one direction you might take after Blue lodge. But you will have a few years to decide with infinitely more information about each than you do now.

My suggestion would be not to even think about side degrees just yet. Focus on learning hard in the Blue Lodge, and wait at least a year after you've completed your third degree before joining Scottish or any other side degree. If you race into the side degrees without a thorough understanding of the first three degrees, you might find yourself a little disappointed.

You should never forget that the Blue Lodge is the heart of Freemasonry. You will always remain a member of your Blue Lodge, whether or not you do any side degrees.

Scottish Rite, York Rite, and all the other rites simply depend on which part of the Blue Lodge degrees interest you, and which you would like to learn more about.

It's a little like saying: "I will teach you 10 things, and you can specialize in one of them afterwards."

Choosing Scottish rite now is a bit like saying: "I want to specialize in lesson number 4, although I have no idea what it is."

You'll understand later...

Hope this helps.

[edit on 12/10/2009 by Saurus]

reply to post by Saurus


Yes this has helped very much thank you.

It's funny but the way it's set up is very familiar and makes a lot of sense.

On this I have always liked about the subject of Freemasonry is the fuzzy feeling I get in my head.

I'm glad to hear I have a whole life's work ahead of me, I hope I get accepted and I wish I would have started sooner.

Originally posted by Izarith
On this I have always liked about the subject of Freemasonry is the fuzzy feeling I get in my head.

If you tell this to the guys at the lodge, I'm pretty certain you'll get accepted. Be yourself when you go and visit the guys at the lodge. As long as they can see that in your heart, you really would like to be a mason, and you're not doing it for selfish reasons or financial gain, I pretty certain they'll welcome you into their lodge. The more enthusiastic you are, the greater the chance you'll be accepted.

Good luck with your application. Let us know how it goes!

[edit on 12/10/2009 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus


The first three degrees are done at the blue lodge.
The Scottish rite starts at at the fourth degree.

Actually, both the Scottish Rite and York Rite begin at the first degree. It's just that the Scottish Rite recognizes the first three degrees of the York Rite, which are the ones conferred in most Blue Lodges in the United States.

I mention this because District 18 in Louisiana is composed entirely of Scottish Rite Blue Lodges, originally chartered by the Grand Consistory of Louisiana, which eventually merged with the Supreme Council 33°, Southern Jurisdiction. It's the only district in the United States where one can find regular Blue Lodges that are Scottish Rite Bodies.


[edit on 12-10-2009 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by Izarith

Think of Freemasonry as a tree. The trunk of the tree is composed of the 3-degrees. This trunk is referred to as the Blue Lodge or Craft Masonry. Then you have little branches that compose the Scottish Rite, York Rite, Amaranth, Grotto, Tall Cedar, Shriner's, and the Eastern Star. Without the trunk, the branches would not exist. To go to any appendant body you must go through the Blue Lodge, where you will receive the Master Mason degree.

You apply at a local Lodge to get the first 3-degrees.

Ah, no problem. I don't mind anyone asking questions.

reply to post by jeasahtheseer

Yeah, I joined when I was 21. All my officers, except Senior Steward and Chaplain, are either in their early 30s or younger.

reply to post by Izarith

After you turn in your petition it takes about 2-months to receive the degrees. Now the Lodge should keep in contact with you during this time.

Originally posted by KSigMason
After you turn in your petition it takes about 2-months to receive the degrees. Now the Lodge should keep in contact with you during this time.

Don't you mean two months to before getting initiated (first degree)?

I've never known a lodge to confer all three degrees in under a year.

Originally posted by Saurus
I've never known a lodge to confer all three degrees in under a year.

It is fairly common in my jurisdiction for the candidate, once initiated, to receive his Fellowcraft and Master Mason degrees in consecutive months. This is all contingent on the lodge not closing for the summer and the candidate not opting to miss a degree and being held for the next class due to personal, career or family issues.