Are the Masons Evil?

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posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by ebnmaryam
 


which rite are you refering to? York or Scottish? Or Memphis? I get so confused and need a leaned elder shuch as yourself to guide me. Please do tell what happens in the degrees leading up to 33. I can't wait to be enlightened!!!




posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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The masons are not evil, they are exactly like any other organization.
Good and bad, but that all depends upon the individual.

My uncle is a grandmaster of an Australian lodge and he is a perfectly nice person, and I can speak as an authority on this because i've known him all my life. He is a 33'rd degree mason and talks openly about it with his family. He has 2 kids and 4 grandkids, all of whom were raised fine. At the same time im sure you could find a mason that was not nice, and was a bad person.
I think the masons is an excellant organization with excellant standards, and you may say im biased but im giving you my honest 2 cents.
There is no proof of any masonic links to the illuminati or any masonic wrong doing or evil, i think the same thing is happening to the masons as did to the templars.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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It's not my personal insight; for 34 years with Masonic people.
Al jazeera TV channel at date ‎02/‎9/1999 and 09/‎9/1999 has presented a tow episodes of the (the very secret, or, above to secret, program name) talks about the free Masonic, the program and the general case are same, actually this thread and the program for Comparison are same when any kind of conversation there will be the 4 sides (faces): who don't knew and listening maybe say some thing Wrong or right, the second telling about the outwardly matters he had feel it without any testing from inside.
The third had general information and making the conversation for more information or to make a conversation.
But the forth one the high level masonry degrees is the best one by smiling and conversation style outwardly but from inside he making his spider web.
The real Masonic is the poor masonry who called the slaves for what called (the upper class).
i do not know if there is English copy of the aljazeera TV program, but it's saying the truth.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



Please do tell what happens in the degrees leading up to 33. I can't wait to be enlightened!!!


(IN.SH.AL) I'll do it with proof and physical evidences and photos

a simple question (network dude) the photo


What dose it mean? Why the mask a one seeing eye?


[edit on 7-10-2009 by ebnmaryam]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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This is a good article that exposes John D Rockefellers Masonic Links and shows how he used them to create and take down Masonic Presidents.

Rockefeller and the Masons



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Duke02
This is a good article that exposes John D Rockefellers Masonic Links and shows how he used them to create and take down Masonic Presidents.

Rockefeller and the Masons



The Masons are run by the descendants of the Knights Templar, who now are referred to as the Illuminati or the architects of the New World order. They also constitute the highest degree (33rd) in Freemasonry, or the "Philosopher kings and their ruling class", which incorporates their symbolism and ceremonies.

The 32nd degree of Freemasonry is reserved for descendants of the Templar military order. These are the leaders of our military and military intelligence agencies like the CIA, KGB, Waffen SS and M1

The 31st degree is reserved for their merchant/banker/entertainer class.
Funny, I, like many other 32° Masons on ATS, managed to be come a 32° Mason without being a banker or a military leader. In fact, all it took was $100 and a weekend of theater and lectures. It's amusing the stuff some people will make up. Our fellow member Lost In the Midwest is going to be made a 33° this fall. Quite an honor, to be sure, but I don't know that I'd consider him an "architect of the New World Order" or a "Philosopher King".



"To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: 'the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN Doctrine. If Lucifer were not god, would Adonay (Jesus)... calumniate (spread false and harmful statements about) him?...Yes Lucifer is God..."(Albert Pike, A.C. De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maqonnene Universelle, page 588.)
This is commonly known as the Taxil Hoax. Leo Taxil admitted more than 100 years ago that he made up that quote. And yet people still cite it today as if it were true.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by ebnmaryam
 

Al Jazeera?! HA! That's your "credible" source? A lot of Islamic news media used to say the Jews drank the blood of children too. But I guess to CTs that's kosher.

Only the religious extremists and tyrants ever denounce Freemasonry. I do laugh as I watch the video as the how the Lodge set-up changes from scene to scene. Either the photographers traveled from country to country, which I doubt as the Arabic dialect didn't change, but rather was fabricated from several different sources. And at least in Idaho, we don't read from any book for the ritual, we do it all from memory. It's quite the pathetic try to demonize Freemasonry in the Islamic world.

I've never seen a lower or upper class. In fact, we are taught to meet on the level and that we are equal in the eyes of our own Creator. No matter what I say, the Cts will say I don't know enough. If I'm a just in the Blue Lodge, I need to go to the Scottish Rite. If I'm a 32nd then I need to go to the 33rd. If I'm a 33rd theres a inner circle I don't know about. To the CTs there's always something they know that the real member doesn't know.

reply to post by Duke02
 

As I said before, maybe in another thread (I can't keep track), but Rockefeller was not a Mason.

reply to post by JoshNorton
 

I suck with money and I am only a Sgt. in the Idaho Guard, not quite the leader I guess I'm supposed to be.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by ebnmaryam
 



The information you refered to has to do with the higher degrees. But there are several orders with higher degrees. Which one are you talking about?

As with my avitar, I was loking for a masoinc avitar so people would know I am a mason. I found this mask and being an Iron man fan from childhood, I thought it was cool. I also like blue. Sometimes an avitar is just an avitar.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by ebnmaryam
 


I will check out the links in more detail, but I must say, David Icke is not one of my favorite reads. Unless you are really into fantasy. And could you explain the relevance of link 4? What does 9-11 have to do with the "higher levels" of masonry? (in your opinion)



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by ebnmaryam
 


Typically when you post a link you include a commentary as to why you felt it was relavant. Put some effort into your posts and explain to everyone why you felt these links were so important to include.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Typically when you post a link you include a commentary as to why you felt it was relavant. Put some effort into your posts and explain to everyone why you felt these links were so important to include.


any link above already commented when you enter any of them.

AugustusMasonicus what the knife and the mask are for? i see much blod there!!



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by ebnmaryam
any link above already commented when you enter any of them.


We are not looking for David Icke, et als, impressions, you posted the link what are your impressions of them? Speak in your own words.


AugustusMasonicus what the knife and the mask are for? i see much blod there!!


Networkdude's wife shamed him, that is the blood from the honor killing.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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What part of 33rd degrees have aboslutely no authority over ANY....not one Master mason is not clear? If you are a 32nd degree Scottish Rite it means ZILCH in a blue lodge. It only means you paid your dues to go to a Scottish Rite Festavil....ANYONE I mean ANYONE who gets to 3rd degree master mason can become a 32nd degree in a couple of weekends. So long as their check does not bounce. It's sort of like going to a really good Conference on Realestate and showing your entry ticket to a bunch of experience realators who have been at it for years and saying because you attended the conference and have your ticket you should speak from authority.

the Scottish Rite, the York Rite, the Shriners all are worthy and noble bodies....but ultimately their sort of like "extra credit" work for people who want additional lessons to the main course curriculum.

As for 33rd degree this is like saying that if someone wins a Oscar lifetime award they instantly are allowed to give orders to any other actors, or maybe news anchors simply because they were recognized for a lifetime achevement award..

33rd simply is an honorary title....it means you are a member of the Socttish Rite, and because of a long time of service, you are being recognized as a credit to that group. Kinda like a golden key to a city doesn't make you a mayor.

If a mason who was a 32nd degree Scottish Rite, Shriner, and Templar from the York were to walk into ANY Lodge he is not an officer he salutes THEM...any Worshipful master who is a 3rd degree at ANY Lodge outranks him....I know plenty of Masons who went through all the appendent bodies one after the other and did not go through the chairs in the Blue Lodge....I promise you they have less influence than a Past Master who never saw the inside of ONE appendent body.

The problem with your conspiracies is that they're not even particularly good ones. If I wanted to "invent" a conspiracy with masonry as a back drop I could at least come up with something beleiveable, probably a pretty good one....but these sorts of threads....sound to Masons a bit like people arguing over the moon being made of Cheese...but being WILLING to have a Nasa Scientist try and convince them otherwise....

The shaking of heads is not elitism...or coyness on our part...it's because that is exactly how obvious it is that you have done zero homework on the actual makeup of our organizations or how they are structured. At least an Intelligent conspiracy theorist would not talk about a Secret coven of Acadamy award winners being the real leaders of the News Media.

I await for the conspiracy theorists to come up with an actually well thought out conspiracy after ACTUALLY researching masonry that does more then make 100% of Masons giggle.





[edit on 8/10/2009 by ForkandSpoon]



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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Hello,

I would like to ask Freemasons a few questions.

I would like to point out that I have wanted to become a Freemason since I was 17. I am now 27 and have not joined because of the responsibility I would incur and also because I some how understand or somehow see or know that there is certain knowledge of Freemasonry that can only be obtained through deceit or being lied too. Kind of like the pictures that you have to look crossed eyed at in order to see the true image.

I also had a deep fear of becoming a Freemason due to the whole "are they evil" deal until I was presented with a new perspective by a great man from India who told me "I don't think that matters". This opened up a new door for me when combined with a remark from a Freemason I had talked to at a lodge one day who explained to me that Hitler was a man of good intentions and that men with good intentions who are supplied with enough power will inevitably do some pretty horrible things. This made me understand that Freemasons indeed are evil, and so is the rest of mankind. The only difference between Freemasons and the rest of mankind is that some Freemasons like some of the rest of mankind are capable of building upon themselves through knowledge and eventually the understanding of that knowledge, maybe. The Freemasons are no more than a symbolic "Life for dummies" rapt in a symbolic "Life 101" cloaked in "The quantum physics of life" except all the multiple choice questions are wrong, maybe.

Freemasons only have secrets to conceal their Masonic identity from non masons. the rest of the secrets we no masons think they have is nothing more than the inability to see whats in plain sight kind of like not being able to read a book because we are illiterate. But this is really not a secret it's rather just not something you can put into words. And this knowledge goes by degrees. A 3'rd degree mason does not know what a 4'th degree mason knows and so on. Not because a 4'th degree mason does not speak about 4'th degree stuff to a 3'rd degree but rather because there are no words to tell him. The 3'rd degree must see, understand, and become a 4'th degree in order to converse 4'th degree stuff. and that's if he really truly understands this and the only way you will know if you have truly understood it is if you end up a 33', maybe.

It's all a mater of technology, Most people understand technology to mean a car, a tv or things like a space station or an I-pod. But technology is also love, valor, courage, hope. These technologies have been spoon fed to us from a very early age so we think that with out them being implemented in our minds we would have them, not so. There are many higher forms of technology we are not fully aware of and even if some times we catch a whiff of them we will not know of them until we live them.

Try explaining what capitalism or communism is to a man who from birth has grown up in a forest raised by wolves. Imagine all the abstract stones of life experiences he would have to build until he was capable of contemplating such things much like we would have to wordlessly live the life of a wolf to understand the technology of a "Pack".

Anyway these are all musings of a non mason to take them with a grain of salt.

My questions are....

Why are potential Masons no longer required to ask three times to become a Freemason before they are given an application?

Do You as a Freemason feel that most loges are losing their true masonic porous, that the knowledge of Freemasonry is being replaced by membership fees?

Why does the person need to believe in a supreme being to become a Freemason?

If you answer could you pleas tell me your degree.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Izarith
My questions are....

Why are potential Masons no longer required to ask three times to become a Freemason before they are given an application?


If you truely want to be a mason, you will ask to become one. Asking 3 times is just repetative. ask12b1




Do You as a Freemason feel that most loges are losing their true masonic porous, that the knowledge of Freemasonry is being replaced by membership fees?


no, I personally feel as if we need to increase our numbers of young people when I see the older generation. They are the WW2 generation and are not going to be with us in 10 years. They hold a lot of knowledge and it needs to be passed on.



Why does the person need to believe in a supreme being to become a Freemason?


The teachings of masonry revolve around the bible and the whole idea is to achieve a place in the spiritual building with the Grand Architect of the universe. If you didn't believe in him, why would you want to see him? A pointless journey is a journey you need not take.



If you answer could you pleas tell me your degree.


now I get to address the fantasy you poseted above all these questions. You have no idea what masonry is all about. How could you? What you read on some sites and hear from some people who are not masons themselves, should be set aside and viewed with other factual information. Like going to a masonic site to test the things you thought were true against the things you were told. A 3rd degree master mason is the highest degree there is in masonry. You can join an apendant body and get up to the 33rd, but you are still a 3rd degree master mason and a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason or whatever order you go into. I am a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason as well as a 3rd degree master mason. But a past master has much more street cred than I do even if he never joined the Scottish Rite or any other order. He gets to have a vote in the grand lodge. I have to become master and after that, I will get that privlidge.

The teachings of masonry will make you think differently than you did before you joined. For the better. You will think of others first. You will think about your actions before you do them. You will not get instructions on how to take over the world. No matter what you have been told.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Izarith
Why are potential Masons no longer required to ask three times to become a Freemason before they are given an application?
To be honest, I don't know if that was ever a requirement so much as an unwritten tradition. At least in my state, I've never seen that officially on the books. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen though... if an old-timer wanted to be sure of his friend's motivations before handing him a petition. It could, of course, be different in different jurisdictions. There's no overarching unifying body governing all of Freemasonry, so it us up to the voting members of each grand lodge to determine the constitution, laws and bylaws of its own member bodies.


Do You as a Freemason feel that most loges are losing their true masonic porous, that the knowledge of Freemasonry is being replaced by membership fees?
While I personally think that Masonry serves as many as four, if not more, types of members (philanthropists, fraternalists, esotericists and ritualists) it is my own opinion that the framework of Masonry is such that as long as there are some members of each type, the things that make it Masonry will never be lost.


Why does the person need to believe in a supreme being to become a Freemason?
If he didn't, the rituals and lessons of the degrees wouldn't hold as much meaning to him.


If you answer could you pleas tell me your degree.
As network dude has stated above this post, the question only belies your ignorance. I'm currently a 3rd degree Master Mason, an officer in my lodge, a 32° Scottish Rite Mason, a member of two sub groups within the Scottish Rite, and a line officer in one of those two organizations. But there's no degree higher than that of Master Mason.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

If you truly want to be a mason, you will ask to become one. Asking 3 times is just repetitive. ask12b1


I understand this, thank you. This whole ask12b1 deal is no different than saying cheese and crackers so god won't know your swearing. But I am very grateful that the opportunity to become a Freemason is there. I'm just two pig hairs from being an actual bum on the streets at the moment and would rather be in a position to contribute rather than anything else. I am not worthy one could say.


no, I personally feel as if we need to increase our numbers of young people when I see the older generation. They are the WW2 generation and are not going to be with us in 10 years. They hold a lot of knowledge and it needs to be passed on.


This is truly sad and would most definitely be a great loss. I'll see what i can do.



The teachings of masonry revolve around the bible and the whole idea is to achieve a place in the spiritual building with the Grand Architect of the universe. If you didn't believe in him, why would you want to see him? A pointless journey is a journey you need not take.


I just don't fully understand what "Believe" means. To tell you the truth the Grand Architect what ever that might be scares the living # out of me. Since a child every time I have gotten sick or thought I would die I always found myself begging god not to put me through such things. I know something is up there I just don't know if we like each other all that much, when I'm not begging that is.


now I get to address the fantasy you posted above all these questions. You have no idea what masonry is all about. How could you? What you read on some sites and hear from some people who are not masons themselves, should be set aside and viewed with other factual information. Like going to a masonic site to test the things you thought were true against the things you were told. A 3rd degree master mason is the highest degree there is in masonry. You can join an apendant body and get up to the 33rd, but you are still a 3rd degree master mason and a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason or whatever order you go into. I am a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason as well as a 3rd degree master mason. But a past master has much more street cred than I do even if he never joined the Scottish Rite or any other order. He gets to have a vote in the grand lodge. I have to become master and after that, I will get that privlidge.


Yes I understand, you can stop giving me the 3'rd degree for crying out loud.


But are you honestly trying to tell me that the degrees from 4th to 33rd are not meant to help a Freemason understand the 3rd degree better?


The teachings of masonry will make you think differently than you did before you joined. For the better. You will think of others first. You will think about your actions before you do them. You will not get instructions on how to take over the world. No matter what you have been told.


I think you might have taken my post the wrong way. What I meant when I said that the Freemasons are indeed evil was that fish should not point a finger at things that swim. Fish should not call other fish ignorant if they are all out of water either. No biggy tho we all do it, it's a part of life under the sea.......of fantasy.

I have been told many things about the Freemasons, mostly by Freemasons like yourself and I thank you for your responses. Hopefully as I take the time to see you as I will be you as well take the time to see me as you once were.

TA!

Izzy.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
To be honest, I don't know if that was ever a requirement so much as an unwritten tradition. At least in my state, I've never seen that officially on the books. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen though... if an old-timer wanted to be sure of his friend's motivations before handing him a petition. It could, of course, be different in different jurisdictions. There's no overarching unifying body governing all of Freemasonry, so it us up to the voting members of each grand lodge to determine the constitution, laws and bylaws of its own member bodies.


Well I walked into the loge in San Diego one day and grabbed some fliers about Freemasonry. The pamphlet was a story of some actor who at a young age asked some dude to become a Mason, he had to ask the man three times and at the third the man whipped out an application and a pen. The story also told that he learned his stuff from toe to toe knee to knee mouth to ear.

The interesting thing is that three words were highlighted through out the literature. The words were three, times, surprised. So I read the pamphlet three times and I was indeed very surprised to find that the story was actually trying to tell me something rather than just tell a story. I know that sound stupid but it's hard to explain what I was surprised about. I guess maybe I'm saying the doors in our mind only open if you knock three times.

I only ask because why would a pamphlet targeting non masons talk about asking three time while in today's day we are ask12b1'ed lol.

I guess telling everyone you need to ask three times is an old school version of ask12b1 maybe.

But again why would a non mason need to ask three time in the first place. That's all I'm wondering.


While I personally think that Masonry serves as many as four, if not more, types of members (philanthropists, fraternalists, esotericists and ritualists) it is my own opinion that the framework of Masonry is such that as long as there are some members of each type, the things that make it Masonry will never be lost.


Now were are talkin!


Are you told of these four types of members?

Do you get to choose which one to be?

Can you choose to be more than one?

If your not able to say feel free dissuad this fact and imply the obvious by stating my level of ignorance based on the fact that I'm asking questions pertaining to a fraternity I am currently not a member of.



As network dude has stated above this post, the question only belies your ignorance. I'm currently a 3rd degree Master Mason, an officer in my lodge, a 32° Scottish Rite Mason, a member of two sub groups within the Scottish Rite, and a line officer in one of those two organizations. But there's no degree higher than that of Master Mason.


Thank you very much.

Thanks also for the choice of your avatar. I have never heard of our Emperor of the United stats and Protector of Mexico. Sounds like a truly awesome guy, I'm glad i read of him.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by Izarith
 


I definately appriciate your honesty in the whole God thing. I am sure he does as well. Saying you believe in God because thats what you are supposed to do, is fooling nobody but yourself. In Masonry 3 is a very important number. I won't go into all the reasons why because it would be of more value to you to find out on your own, should you ever decide to take that path.

Waiting untill you are ready is also a very good idea. You will get out of it what you put into it, like most things in life. Just don't get too wrapped up in the hype about the evil thing. Sure masons are just people, and fallible just like anyone, but we as a group are taught to always try to do better. Not better than anyone else, just better than yourself.





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