Originally posted by pepsi78

Isn't it logical? how many of 33th degree do you think are out there? compared to the first 3 degrees.

Well, as a logical person I have to admit the logic in this is beyond me. Spock would be disappointed. Could you spell it out for me?

I'll tell you about the MASONS. Most of them are good people. That's how they recruit new members. They are looking for good men, to join their brotherhood. But, there is evil at the core. AND, thereare evil men, Masons and non masons. The trouble is in the fact that they MUST help their brother, without question, when asked to do so.
I've lived the experience. I am not a mason. Only the victim of Freemasonry. Cops belong... Hells Angels belong. Maybe not all of them. But that doesn't matter. If you have a problem with a mason. You have a problem with all masons. Doesn't matter whether they like you are not. If their brother asks a favor. They do it. The reason is irrelevant.
They may not even like each other, but they are brothers nonetheless. This can be confusing to the rest of us, because we cannot make sense of a certain alliance between two people that seem to dislike each other.
Also, I must add. That brainwashing is a SLOW process. That one is brought into the MASON circle as a good man. Slowly, bit by bit, they are changed. To the point that an evil act is justified by "for the good of us all; the BIG picture".
Also, Masons don't just go out and beat people up. They enjoy cleverness to their evil doings. They get a "kick" out of clever killing.
For those of you who are masons,...I KNOW YOU BETTER THAN YOU KNOW YOURSELVES.
I say this from first hand experience. I have seen the MOST EVIL and vile acts. Those of which I could sit and talk about all day... but they are so grotesque, I am sure that most would not believe. So, what is the point.

Given the method that anti-Masons use to judge the group, then all groups,religions, et cetera are "evil." It's all pretty ridiculous to me how anti-Masons generalize everything.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Well, as a logical person I have to admit the logic in this is beyond me. Spock would be disappointed. Could you spell it out for me?

I'm sorry you probaly did not get to see my whole post because while you posted I was editing my post, did not know you would reply so fast.

My edit

In any organasied organisation, organised by the others above you got fewer people, hey even mecdonalds does the same
Fewer at the top, and alot more at the bottom, how many foot soldiers are out there and how many generals?
When it comes to ranks fewer and fewer make it up.
It's just humman nature.

By the way how many forum moderators are out there on ats vs regular members

[edit on 12-11-2007 by pepsi78]

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it.

President John F. Kennedy
Address to newspaper publishers
April 27, 1961

I am not anti-everything. Just ANTI-FREEMASON, ILLUMINATI & NEW WORLD ORDER. The whole PLAN. (and there is a plan, believe me) You may be in the dark about it, because you are MASON. Poor, brainwashed soul.

Originally posted by devilhisself
I am not anti-everything. Just ANTI-FREEMASON, ILLUMINATI & NEW WORLD ORDER. The whole PLAN. (and there is a plan, believe me) You may be in the dark about it, because you are MASON. Poor, brainwashed soul.

OK, I'm listening. What are you basing this on?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You think I'm a Mason?
No, I've just bothered to examine both angles of the argument and have come to the full-blown conclusion that anti-Masons are full of excrement.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Are you sure you're not a Mason?

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I have not ventured into all of the many threads about Freemasons - there are so many - but I do have few big questions:

The first I have wondered since I was a child - Why don't the temples and meeting halls have windows? This sends up a huge flag to me. What's going on in there?

Secondly, what is this "craft" they practice?

Third, why is it so important that a prospective member be vetted so thoroughly and no one is to be trusted until they are a full member?

Why is it important to behave so cautiously and up-rightly so as to not draw unwarranted attention? What else is going on?

Why can't they talk about Freemasonry concerns with family, friends or neighbors?

It's not my intention to alienate any Masons here, I am just very curious. Why do these traditions continue when they have such negative connotations in modern society? Surely, if Masons do good work, that should speak to their reputation and these other issues should fade out of fashion over time. Or is there more to it?

[edit on 12/11/07 by kosmicjack]

Responding to Kosmickjack as a Freemason:

Because:

1. These are remnants from times when people like us were persecuted, burned and hung for thinking differently.

2. To make it more fun and interesting.


Much of the old craft is no longer practiced though, much to my dismay. A lot of it is symbolic now. Gosh would I be one bored mason if even those few remnants were gone too.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Responding to Kosmickjack as a Freemason:

Because:

1. These are remnants from times when people like us were persecuted, burned and hung for thinking differently.

Persecuted where, germany, germany does not stand for the rest of the world , I don't see this relevant to the fact that masonary went underground where ever it was present.

My pragmatic problem with the notion that "you just aren't high enough" is that people who state such things obviously do not know much about the structure and demographics of Masonry.

Alright so after your blue lodge degrees (1st - 3rd) which takes varying lengths of time depending on your lodge and jurisdiction, you have your Scottish Rite. Obviously the anti-Masons have not figured out a good "conspiracy" for the York Rite and seem fixated on the degrees "beyond the 33rd." With one exception that I know of EVERYWHERE in the US a Scottish Rite Mason jumps from 4th to 32nd in a WEEKEND. A shame in my opinion as it is much more difficult for a Mason to get everything out of each degree, but I understand the reasoning. So you are now 32nd degree Scottish Rite, do you anti-Masons have any idea the average length of time it takes to receive the 33rd degree?

Off the top of my head I know of only one 33rd who is merely in his 40's in the Southern Jurisdiction. Every other SGIG (a 33rd degree scottish rite Mason) spends a lifetime awaiting even the possibility of receiving the 33rd. Most are in their 60's and 70's.

So now you have reached the 33rd and are almost without exception receiving retirement benefits. The mandatory retirement age for Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction (the "boss" of the Scottish Rite if you want to call him that) is EIGHTY YEARS OLD. I don't know many 80 year olds who can control their bathroom visits. Does that seem like a group of people capable of malevolently controlling the world?

Im talking about REMNANTS of old days, very old days. In my opinion it all began with the Templars being hunted down for their beliefs and going underground.

In any case, there really is no more secrecy, the "real stuff" has long passed.

Gosh people, get real. We`re not evil.


At least no more evil than satan or anyone else for that matter.