Are the Masons Evil?

Originally posted by swimmer
Most of the masons are - stupid. Just like communists...most of them were just followers, looking for the benefit of being in the "Party".

Don't even ask regular masons (even the "level 32", or whatever) what the true nature of masonic organization is - they only think they know.

I just love it when some non-Masonic 'Masonic researcher' makes a pronouncement like the above about Freemasonry. It really does expose them for the know-nothings that they are.

Pray tell oh great swimmer. Care to enlighten the world on just how you came to your deeply-researched opinion about Masons?

Originally posted by spirit7
reply to post by LightinDarkness

 

"but I would urge you to find ANY institution that has EXCLUSIVELY been used by its members for "goodness" alone."

LOL! Any church of God. Ask me a tough question now! LOL!

Don't read the papers much, do you?

Originally posted by spirit7
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Really, have you not seen the movie 300?

Newsflash to spirit7.....IT'S A MOVIE, YA DINK!!!!! You're a fool if you think it has anything to do with real life. That particular one is a live-action cartoon. Are you going to suggest we start educating ourselves by way of Bugs Bunny cartoons next?

Originally posted by spirit7
If not then I highly recommend it. There are those references or similarities to Freemasonry in there that have the similarities.

Without being a Mason, how is it you presume to have any sort of reasoned base upon which to draw any sort of comparison? The best you seem able to do is regurgitate the same discredited arguments that've been made here and shot down dozens of times before.

Originally posted by spirit7
My point is that you really have no idea that you are in fact worshipping something other then Jesus but do not realize it.

And yet again, someone trots out the 'Masons-worship-the-Devil-in-Lodge' canard, little knowing that Masons as a group don't worship anything. Each Mason has their personal religions and beliefs and when thanks to the GAOTU is called for, each draws on his own belief system. If I'm thanking Jesus, then I'm thanking Jesus. Not something else. THAT is what's going on in MY heart and nothing you say is going to make that a lie. One of our PMs who's Jewish would be thanking God; that's what's in his heart. An Islamic brethren would be thanking Allah. And so on and so on. Get the picture?




Probably not.

Originally posted by spirit7
I am not jealous of the Freemasons nor am I intimidated into thinking that I have to join.

Dandy. Just stop pretending you have even a clue what Masonry is actually about. Just quit pretending that the (at best) secondhand information you've been spewing is 'truth'. It isn't.

Originally posted by spirit7

Really, have you not seen the movie 300? If not then I highly recommend it. There are those references or similarities to Freemasonry in there that have the similarities.

When you begin to take a fictious cinematic endeavour that was produced soley as a vehicle of entertainment and attempt to incorporate it into an intellectual debate to substantiate your sorely mistaken belief you do yourself a great diservice. There is nothing of any substance worth addressing in this regard and the simple act of you referencing it in this manner causes it to be self-repudiating. Please come armed with facts to prove the veracity of your claims.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Why don't the temples and meeting halls have windows? This sends up a huge flag to me. What's going on in there?

Hmm... movie theaters don't have windows either! Maybe the two are related? You know, masonic media control conspiracy? That guy that played Balki on "Perfect Strangers" is a mason, and clearly his connections have made him a media mogul!

reply to post by JoshNorton


Bronson Pinchot is a Mason? That information is worth resurrecting this old thread.

He might not be a media mogul but at least he played Serge in Beverly Hills Cop.

wow AugustusMasonicus your avatar is standing just like the statue of liberty, just a notice.

reply to post by pepsi78


You know, I never noticed that. That is actually Augustus Caesar from the Prima Porta statue. Historians believe it was commisioned by his wife Livia, and it is a very stylized image of him. It currently resides in the Vatican Museum.

As long as you truly believe in Jesus then you need not fear anyone or anything is what I've learned through my own personal relationship with the almighty. It's funny how he and I can make them seem like just a bunch of big headed fools.

Anyway, most masons 32nd degree and lower really don't have a clue. The thing that invites one to become a mason is fear itself sort of like "Hey, you're afraid that if you're not in, then you're out? Then come on in and kneel before our all worshipful master and mock your religion and abandon your faith and your personal relationship with the Almighty".

Or, you can grab a pair and stand and say "No thanks, God is my creator and he already gave me the gift of freewill but I still choose to obey him rather then the one that you all worship, whomever that may be?" "That's why I thank God for Jesus for he is the king and taught man how to walk"

Ye of little faith "Do not worry" he said to the little flock. Please read Luke 12:22.

And Intrepid, please don't move this over to the faith forum. This has everything to do with "the craft".

Originally posted by spirit7
It's funny how he and I can make them seem like just a bunch of big headed fools.

I didn't know you were on such good terms with the Lord. My mistake.

Or, you can grab a pair and stand and say "No thanks, God is my creator and he already gave me the gift of freewill but I still choose to obey him rather then the one that you all worship, whomever that may be?" "That's why I thank God for Jesus for he is the king and taught man how to walk"

:bnghd: That's what the Christian Masons have been saying too. They just don't limit to Christ. They also allow Allah, Bhudha, etc. Read that, without prejudice.

And Intrepid, please don't move this over to the faith forum. This has everything to do with "the craft".

No problem, I just warned you though for the "bunch of big headed fools" post though. Here we go, I'm a Mason again.

Lol Intrepid, ok I will try to keep the peace and "watch" my comments and choose my next words carefully.

My personal opinion is that you cannot be Christian and a "Free"mason at the same time because freemasonry from what I've witnessed only leads you away from a relationship with Christ.

I will - once again - ask you to provide proof for your statements.

Originally posted by spirit7
As long as you truly believe in Jesus then you need not fear anyone or anything is what I've learned through my own personal relationship with the almighty.

This is a straw man logical fallacy. Is anyone telling you that you should fear something? No.

Originally posted by spirit7
Anyway, most masons 32nd degree and lower really don't have a clue.

Do you have any evidence for this statement? How exactly is it that masons (we're all the same level - any degree above the 3rd means nothing as far as rank) who go through the ritual of masonry have no clue about what's going on? Or that our fellow 33rd degree brethren don't feel the need to clue us in? How is it that we know nothing and yet - somehow you are "enlightened" about whatever it is we are lacking clues in?

Originally posted by spirit7
The thing that invites one to become a mason is fear itself sort of like "Hey, you're afraid that if you're not in, then you're out? Then come on in and kneel before our all worshipful master and mock your religion and abandon your faith and your personal relationship with the Almighty".

Again, do you have any evidence for these sorts of statements? Any personal testimonies of masons who claim this is why they became a mason? This certainly isn't true for me, or anyone else I know who has told me about why they came a mason. I decided to join because I felt it was a good opportunity to diversify the charity work that I am interested in, and provided me with the chance to build upon my own personal studies in philosophy.

And yet again, you show that you do not have the facts on masonry. No one kneels to anyone in masonry, and not the worshipful master either. How is it we mock religion when each mason is told that GOD AND RELIGION comes first before EVERYTHING else, especially masonry? How is it that being in a group"abandons" faith and personal relationship with their God? You do realize when you go to church you are a member of a group too - does this cause you to abandon your faith as well? What about any other group you are a member of?

Originally posted by spirit7
Or, you can grab a pair and stand and say "No thanks, God is my creator and he already gave me the gift of freewill but I still choose to obey him rather then the one that you all worship, whomever that may be?" "That's why I thank God for Jesus for he is the king and taught man how to walk"

Interesting, since all masons are told that they should honor and obey their own God. You are committing a false dilemma fallacy: the choice is not masonry or religion, because the two institutions are fundamentally different.

Originally posted by spirit7
My personal opinion is that you cannot be Christian and a "Free"mason at the same time because freemasonry from what I've witnessed only leads you away from a relationship with Christ.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I will not take it as valid or even probable until you provide some sort of evidence or proof for these sorts of allegations and sweeping generalizations. What have you witnessed that leads you to this opinion, and how does your singular experience allow you to adequately generalize to the entire fraternity?

[edit on 23-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by intrepid


"I didn't know you were on such good terms with the Lord. My mistake. "

Believe me, I am glad that I am!

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Because "G"nostism goes back before Christianity and you believe in a supreme being where as I believe in God. God is not a "Supreme being". God is the Almighty, which I am thankful for! God doesn't need no mask or cape or gown, all that he needs is his Holy Crown! I am also thankful that either Baphomet or Lucifer or whatever he is referred too these days has nothing. My lord made sure of that when he had St. Michael and the arch angels stomp his little hiney into the rock that we stand on.

reply to post by intrepid


Intrepid buddy, if I ever make it to Grand Master (hah, never going to happen), I'm going to have to make you a mason at sight. At least then we can give some credibility to all these "masonic mod conspiracy" posts

reply to post by LightinDarkness



What is the meaning behind your screen name if you don't mind me asking? I want to be friends but I want to know the method behind your madness. What is the "light" that you refer to and do you think that I am the one in the darkness? Be honest, do you?


[edit on 23-12-2007 by spirit7]

reply to post by spirit7


What? There is inlaid in this statement an assumption that there is an relationship between gnosticism and masonry. There is none (there are those who will claim there is, but there are also those who will try to link everything to gnosticism - that they do so does not make it reality). If you do not understand that a Supreme Being IS GOD I am unsure of what to tell you. At one point in my initiation into masonry I was asked in whom I trusted - I answered loudly, and clearly "IN GOD" - and that was a perfectly acceptable answer. I have seen another candidate answer "IN MY LORD JESUS CHRIST" - and that was a perfectly acceptable answer.

Do you know that the characters of the old and new testament never called their deity God or Jesus? Never. Ever. Do you know why? Because the language was different - but when we say God or Jesus we mean the same thing. If you wanted to be logically consistent with this argument, you MUST yourself be a heretic because you do not refer to God by his names in the bible: Elohim, Elelyon, El Shaddi, El Roi, etc.

Stop using straw man arguments - did you see anyone ever say God needs a robe or a cape? Did anyone say they were upset that satan isn't more powerful? I'm not even sure what you are talking about.

You have still shown absolutely no evidence, or reason, for any of your claims.

My name simply means that I search to understand the light that shines in the darkness which often surrounds this world. SearchingForLightinDarkness was a tad bit long. And before you go evangelical on me, I believe the Light is Jesus Christ - and concurrently stands for His divinity, knowledge, enlightenment, etc. But I always search to understand the light more precisely.

Ok, fair enough.

Do you believe that I am in the darkness because I am not a freemason myself?

Actually, God is not a Supreme "being". That's a gnostic aproach to God.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by spirit7]

Gnos·ti·cism (nŏs'tĭ-sĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n. The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.

From that definition that I pulled from dictionary.com I gather that freemasons think that they are closer to God then someone like myself who doesn't have the ancient gnosis. Am I off base or more on track?

reply to post by spirit7


Do you have any proof for the statement that God is not a Supreme Being, and that such a phrase is only gnostic? Do you know that other world religions also call their deities God? I guess that means you are using the names of God that are used by Islam and Hinduism (for male deities). Care to explain that? Since Supreme Being according to you is purely gnostic, then your use of God is clearly heretical since the phrase is used by other world religions. Do you worship Allah and the numerous male deities of Hinduism? You must, according to your own logic.

You still have not answered how you are not being heretical by not using the original names for God found in the old testament - since obviously, God can only have one name (according to your own logic). Are you not Christian because you do not use the original names for God? The phrase "God" never came from the lips of Jesus Christ, he would have called God other names.

No, you are not the darkness, but you do teeter on the edge in my opinion. In your fervor to expose the darkness you zealously disregard evidence that shows you there is none in the things that you seek it in.