Are the Masons Evil?

Rockpuck, I've met many Masons, work with a few. I would hope that you can post with comportment that a Mason would do. Just saying.

A picture of a Mason Lodge in the area.

All window are covered, even the ones high up on the sides, have styrofoam insulation over them.

reply to post by stompk

What an intriguing post! I think there was another thread looking at windows (or the lack of them) on masonic buildings - perhaps you meant to submit this post there?

Either way, it's not too terribly difficult to imagine why someone would want to block windows. I certainly don't think that window-blockers are inherently evil, which is the title of this thread.

[edit on 11/18/07 by Trinityman]

I think some people seek to define their world by turning otherwise benign institutions into being something innately "evil" or (less often) "good." From government to religion to masonry, it comforts people to be able to easily assign a institution as "evil." By doing so, people can easily create a false dichotomy to blame their problems on the looming "evil" institution, instead of thinking analytically about the problems they confront.

I would propose that freemasonry as a institution is neither good nor evil. It simply exists, it is a neutral institution which contains members that can be either good or evil. Given the entrance tests and requirements of the fraternity, it is likely that a majority of the MEMBERS themselves are good, but the institution itself is simply neutral. Freemasonry is a tool that can be used by its members for good or evil purposes - and most of them use it in the name of charity, fraternity, and all those other good qualities that the institution demands from its members. Has it been used for "evil" purposes? I'm quite sure it has - but I would urge you to find ANY institution that has EXCLUSIVELY been used by its members for "goodness" alone.

reply to post by stompk


Many lodges do not have the funds to have buildings that where designed specifically for Masonry.. I know of a few around here that are converted church like buildings, that where remodeled. Still have the windows, but they are boarded over.

If it where built by Masons for Masonry I would bet they wouldn't even have added the windows.

And looking at the building it looks like that is the entrance, I suppose perhaps their preparation room as well.

Nothing "sinister" about it, no lodge has windows. Think of it this way perhaps, driving down your street notice how many people have their blinds shut to their bedroom, living room etc. Just privacy, thats all.

reply to post by LightinDarkness

From government to religion to masonry, it comforts people to be able to easily assign a institution as "evil." By doing so, people can easily create a false dichotomy to blame their problems on the looming "evil" institution, instead of thinking analytically about the problems they confront.

Well said.

I would propose that freemasonry as a institution is neither good nor evil. It simply exists, it is a neutral institution which contains members that can be either good or evil.

I am sure there are members that have their own dark secrets, it would be incredibly foolish for any Mason to try and argue that ALL Masonic men are "good" .. where as I am sure there are some deranged individuals. Luckily for Masonry I think it's safe to say that those types of people are not the ones who most often attend lodge nor hold officer positions.

but the institution itself is simply neutral.

This is where I have to disagree. The institution its self is a philophy of teachings, and it is an institution that guides the general efforts of all lodges, which all lodges have one outwardly goal, charity. That is the only thing we do publicly, charity and fund raisers.

I fail to see that as being neutral.

Freemasonry is a tool that can be used by its members for good or evil purposes - and most of them use it in the name of charity, fraternity, and all those other good qualities that the institution demands from its members.

If the Masonic bodies had an organized and well directed goal it could be used for evil. It has the potential to be a very powerful organization if it got involved with politics for instance. However I don't ever see that happening.. at least not anytime soon.. lodges have been home to renegades, rebels, what our government would deem "terrorist" before. Revolutionary war? French Revolution? England? Of course, looking back, we idolize those men now.. but the Kings then had a different view of them, and Masonry.

Has it been used for "evil" purposes? I'm quite sure it has - but I would urge you to find ANY institution that has EXCLUSIVELY been used by its members for "goodness" alone.

Depends on your classification of "evil" .. Shady business deals, using it as leverage at work, local politics, using it as a social club for huge fancy dinners and doing scarcely any charity.. Some people don't always have the best intention in their heart, but I can think of no actual "evil" action done by a Masonic lodge as a whole. Masons who kill, rape, rob a store, it happens every once in a while. You cannot run an organization of this size and not get a few bad apples, any Church who had a member commit a horrible crime would understand. Cannot control Human nature.

Rockpuck, I would agree that the institution is a philosophy and has the outward goal of charity. Charity is innately "good," but you must acknowledge that it can be used for nefarious purposes. However, I do not think this happens in masonry - or at least it does not happen in the charitable efforts I undertake with my lodge. But I acknowledge that such things could happen. Thus, the outcomes of our innately good teachings may not be good in and of themselves - it is the members who decide the outcomes.

But I still claim that the institution is neutral to society as a whole, although the fraternity does most certainly believe it is there for the "good." However, conceptions of what defines good and evil are different for different aspects of our society. This is not to commit a relativist fallacy, but simply to point out that while our end goals are noble they may not be seen as such by others. I also take into account that the lack of any national lodge authority means that even if the fraternity were to agree that there were some better way to achieve our goals, it would be unlikely that the fraternity could or would take such steps all at once. I would maintain the fraternity says "do good," but lets the members decide what that good means - thus, it is philosophically neutral although practically motivated toward common conceptions of "goodness."

And I must say that while I believe it is conceptually possible for freemasonry to be used for "evil," I also acknowledge such is unlikely due to the very reasons you cited. As you correctly said, the definition of evil is vast and can mean many things. I know that there is no universal evil in masonry, but I think you would agree local lodges can twist the masonic philosophy to achieve some of the "evil" things you stated. But this is not to say the fraternity is evil at all - I would again say it is neither good nor evil. But, like all institutions, it has its "bad apples."

First of all...
Why are most of you saying We are a secret Org?
The fact of the matter is this, We have buildings with our symbols and signs ALL OVER them. We as Masons wear lapel pins, have bumper stickers and you can LOOK in the phone book and find our phone number to the local lodge. WHERES THE SECRECY?
WE ARE NOT A SECRET SOCIETY. We have a few secrets which help us to keep out people that would want to try to attend meetings who are not true Brothers, THATS ALL.
And truthfully you can do a search onj the net and find ALL of those secrets listed.
Some of you are so far off base that you think your neighbors are plotting to take over the world, I will tell you this right now... Theres a Mason right next door and all he wants to do is become a better citizen than he was yesterday.
If you want to know what really happens there, GO and join. If then it is not for you, then drop out... Its not the Mafia and you are not stuck there.



"How simple the mind is that blindly follows a lie."
MaxxLarge 2007

Originally posted by MaxxLarge
First of all...
Why are most of you saying We are a secret Org?
The fact of the matter is this, We have buildings with our symbols and signs ALL OVER them. We as Masons wear lapel pins, have bumper stickers and you can LOOK in the phone book and find our phone number to the local lodge. WHERES THE SECRECY?
WE ARE NOT A SECRET SOCIETY. We have a few secrets which help us to keep out people that would want to try to attend meetings who are not true Brothers, THATS ALL.
And truthfully you can do a search onj the net and find ALL of those secrets listed.
Some of you are so far off base that you think your neighbors are plotting to take over the world, I will tell you this right now... Theres a Mason right next door and all he wants to do is become a better citizen than he was yesterday.
If you want to know what really happens there, GO and join. If then it is not for you, then drop out... Its not the Mafia and you are not stuck there.



"How simple the mind is that blindly follows a lie."
MaxxLarge 2007

Some feel that because there are "a few" secrets that they are evil. I personaly do not subscribe to that opinion. But I can see how it stirs peoples imagination.

Don't try to answer the ones that are so dead set on the conspiracy that all of you guys are bad, even if they look up every last ritual and see nothing evil in it they will only see it as though that info was leaked just to satisfy their curiosity and it's "not what realy goes on behind closed doors."

reply to post by LightinDarkness

But I acknowledge that such things could happen. Thus, the outcomes of our innately good teachings may not be good in and of themselves - it is the members who decide the outcomes.

As I say in my post there, I to admit to the possibilities that this organization "could be" anything great be it bad or good. Hell any organization can morph into something it once was not, but we have never seen a military arm of Masonry, nor have we seen Masonry be the governing bodies of nations, nor have we seen grand lodges aligning with political leaders. Masonry its self is not even that wealthy, I know how much my Grand Lodge has in its accounts, and I was surprised it was so little, and how small of a percentage was even "touchable" ..

We could do much more then we do now.. and sometimes I think if we where a more aggressive institution we could really achieve goals, goals larger then giving a few thousand here and there. We don't control the world, or its financial institutions, but honestly I have to wonder, if we did it would be better.

But I still claim that the institution is neutral to society as a whole, although the fraternity does most certainly believe it is there for the "good."

I suppose Masonry does not directly effect society as a good, as it hardly effects society at all. My lodge donates its charity to one institution in the state capital that has almost no effect on the community we live in. The only other great undertaking is blood drives for the local community. A large percentage of money is spent on the old and the sickly, completely ignoring the children.. perhaps if we invested more in local charity to help people directly, and let the community feel the grace of Masonry we would not be in the great decline of death we are currently in.

This is not to commit a relativist fallacy, but simply to point out that while our end goals are noble they may not be seen as such by others.

Because our charities effect very few. However, I would hope that any parent who brings their children to a Shriner hospital they would appreciate Masonry a little more. It is evident, the most famous aspect of Masonry to the general public is the Shriner hospitals.. yet do you realize how few even know the Shriners are Masons.

I would maintain the fraternity says "do good," but lets the members decide what that good means - thus, it is philosophically neutral although practically motivated toward common conceptions of "goodness."

I would have to agree with that statement.. a lodge's commitment can only be as great as its members want to.

Lazy:

Some feel that because there are "a few" secrets that they are evil.

Evil handshakes!

I think people hear us say "it's our handshakes, it's our ritual.. thats all that is "secret"" and they think no.. can't be.. to boring.. not enough Hollywood. So surely it must be plots against mankind, world domination, secret demonic Gods, sacrifice, political conspiracies and assassinations, economic control, some mystic secret that makes everyone a slave. All makes for a good movie, and perhaps Masonry would be a bit more exciting if it where true lol, but its just handshakes, and people have a hard time grasping that concept.

I know just one mason, and have an idea about several others that I could identify if I would know.

Every single one of them actually helps older people of the family pay the bills that have to be paid in umm.. I don't know the word in english. The place where you go to live when you cannot live by yourself anymore. They fund them to private homes as such, be it elderly home.

All of them are also very ethical in their doings.

Then there's this rank thing. If every single step requirel ethicality, good morals, how it would be possible to be the evil one after 32 of them? Just doesn't make sense.

By doing ones best to behave with the utmost compassion and integrity it doesnt really matter what others accuse us of. If it has any use then only to serve us to weed out those who might oppose good deeds, but them into the spotlight.

Point your finger at others and you will have four fingers pointing at yourself.

The biggest problem with Freemasonry in my opinion (drumb roll)........

As my father-in-law, Tim, who happens to be a Freemason told me. All that you have to do is wave that ring around and it carries a lot of weight with fellow Freemasons, along with all the secretive hand shakes and distress signals of course.

You get pulled over by a fellow freemason and guess what, 9 times out of 10 you are let off with a warning. You go for an interview and guess what, 9 times out of 10 you get the job!

Are you beginning to get the picture here?

reply to post by Skyfloating


There's nothing great about Freemasonry. All it does is lead to corruption and a bunch of fools with big heads.

reply to post by DenyAllKnowledge


I like your Avatar. If I could have one of Leonitas then I would. Hey, did you notice the reference to Freemasonry in the movie? Along with Xerxus wanting to be worshipped as a God, did you notice the one scene where he walks down from his throne to try to persuade King Leonitas? Well the steps that he walks down are gold and in the shape of an unfinished pyramid and at the top of the steps is his thrown is a circle.

It sounds similar to freemasonry does it not? I couldn't help but sense the spiritual feeling that King Leonitas had also.

reply to post by spirit7

As my father-in-law, Tim, who happens to be a Freemason told me. All that you have to do is wave that ring around and it carries a lot of weight with fellow Freemasons, along with all the secretive hand shakes and distress signals of course.

The ring carries weight does it? Many, many Masons do not wear rings?

You get pulled over by a fellow freemason and guess what, 9 times out of 10 you are let off with a warning. You go for an interview and guess what, 9 times out of 10 you get the job!

Sometimes that might be, sometimes that might be incorrect.

However, you can take the same example and put it into small towns with large baptist membership, or mormanism, or military, or criminal justice majors, or fellow police officers, ex marines, catholics, even basic friendships.

Carries no weight.

Are you beginning to get the picture here?

I only see sad jealousy over something that happens far less frequent then you may think.

There's nothing great about Freemasonry. All it does is lead to corruption and a bunch of fools with big heads.

Thanks for the ignorant input.

Along with Xerxus wanting to be worshipped as a God, did you notice the one scene where he walks down from his throne to try to persuade King Leonitas? Well the steps that he walks down are gold and in the shape of an unfinished pyramid and at the top of the steps is his thrown is a circle.

Honestly. That is the best you got?

It sounds similar to freemasonry does it not? I couldn't help but sense the spiritual feeling that King Leonitas had also.

Where is there an unfinished pyramid in Freemasonry?

Most of the masons are - stupid. Just like communists...most of them were just followers, looking for the benefit of being in the "Party".

Don't even ask regular masons (even the "level 32", or whatever) what the true nature of masonic organization is - they only think they know.



[edit on 24-11-2007 by swimmer]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


"but I would urge you to find ANY institution that has EXCLUSIVELY been used by its members for "goodness" alone."

LOL! Any church of God. Ask me a tough question now! LOL!

reply to post by Rockpuck



"Where is there an unfinished pyramid in Freemasonry?"

All over the "1" dollar bill

"Honestly. That is the best you got?"

Really, have you not seen the movie 300? If not then I highly recommend it. There are those references or similarities to Freemasonry in there that have the similarities. My point is that you really have no idea that you are in fact worshipping something other then Jesus but do not realize it. Honestly, the best thing that I have going for me is my personal relationship with Jesus. There's no intimidation and everything is out in the open. He's the best support group that I can ever ask for and no, to answer someone elses question possibly on another thread, I am not jealous of the Freemasons nor am I intimidated into thinking that I have to join. Take from this following bible verse what you will (hopefully not as dis-information though),

"Do Not Worry" - Luke 12:47

Then Jesus said to his disciples: Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you can not do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest? Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and to morrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he cloth you, O you of little faith!
And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.








[edit on 24-11-2007 by spirit7]

[edit on 24-11-2007 by spirit7]

LOL! Any church of God. Ask me a tough question now! LOL!

We are of course talking of the same churches of god that hide and protect
child rapists while loudly professing that the only position within the church
a woman has a right to is the missionary position. Flat on their back and submissive. right?