King James version and Solomon

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posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:13 AM
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Freemasonry is not evil, and the average Freemason knows nothing of the occult nor what the purpose of Freemasonry is. Calling Freemasonry satanic, deluded, and the like, is a sign of rank ignorance about spirituality.

I think you need to take a deep look into the lodge before you pass judgment, perhaps you will find the bad apples within it are but a reflection of what you carry within.

It is not possible to question another's way of life unless one is unhappy with one's own.




posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:26 AM
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my two cents:

1. Source of Authority. Masons refer to the Bible as the "Volume of the Sacred Law" (V.S.L.), and it is considered an indispensable part of what is called "the furniture" in a Masonic Lodge. But the Bible is used only in a so-called "Christian" lodge -- the Hebrew Pentateuch is used in a Hebrew lodge, the Koran in a Mohammedan lodge, the Vedas in a Brahmin lodge, etc. Jim Shaw, a former 33rd degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible (referred to as "The Great Light"), but on the Kabala (Cabala), a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil also admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry. Albert Pike (see next), the man responsible for virtually rewriting the Scottish Rite degrees into their present form, said that the Masonic "search after light" leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs (Morals and Dogma). [HJB]

One of the great authorities on Masonry was Albert Pike (1809-1901), Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Supreme Council of Scottish Right Freemasonry in the USA and "an honorary member of almost every Supreme Council in the world" (Albert G. Mackey, 33rd degree, and Charles T. McClenachan, 33rd degree, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, The Masonic History Company, 1921, rev. ed.; 2:564). Pike authored Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, which was published by its authority. This compendium of official Masonic lore clearly traces Masonry to Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and other Eastern religions. Albert G. Mackey, co-author of Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, is also one of Masonry's highest authorities. In his Manual of the Lodge, he traces Masonic teaching back to "the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. ..." (Albert G. Mackey, Manual of the Lodge, Macoy and Sickles, 1802, p. 96).

In the final analysis, Masons do not adjust their beliefs to fit the Bible, the Bible is adjusted to fit their beliefs. A Mason's loyalty is never to God but to the Lodge. Coil has concluded that: "The prevailing Masonic opinion is that the Bible is only a symbol of Divine Will, Law, or Revelation, and not that its contents are Divine Law, inspired, or revealed. So far, no responsible authority has held that a Freemason must believe the Bible or any part of it." Masonry's only concern is that each person must swear by the most holy book he knows, so that he will then keep the oaths of Freemasonry. (See Endnote #2 again.)

2. God. Masons require one to believe in God to be a member, but the candidate is never required to say what god he believes in -- "Masonry ... requires merely that you believe in some deity, give him what name you will ... any god will do, so he is your god" (Little Masonic Library, Macoy Publishing, 1977, 4:32). Masons common...snip
www.rapidnet.com...

ie its a cult that any one who is familiar with the Bible should be able to see through
...that is if Christ is their personal Saviour

y



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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And what, exactly, is wrong with this?

The way I see it, if Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity (which it is not) then good Masons should renounce their Christianity.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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well, there isn't really a "bible" at all, is there? It's just a collection of various writings, by various artists, written at various times. Or am I mistaken?

I know Jordan Maxwell suggests the Companion's Bible, because it comes with lots of footnotes and etymology breakdowns. Personally, I just like certain books, like the Gospel of St. Thomas, Gospel of Judas (what's left of it), other books from the Nag Hammadi

www.gnosis.org...

King James was a bible-thumping lunatic, so the KJV of the bible is not my favorite, due to my familiarity of KJ's other gems, like Demonology.


[edit on 29-12-2007 by scientist]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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I too, enjoy reading King James I works on the occult. His co-authored work with Rabbi Tingel and Sir Francis Roger Bacon, "The Qabalah of the messiah and other commentaries on the new testament" is my favorite.

The bible is written in allegory so that only the adept can read it. It would result in the most appalling disaster were the average layman to obtain its formulas.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


I can't help but notice the elitism here. You previously said that masons "dont know the purpose of masonry" and now that the bible is a secret message that the "layman" couldn't possibly understand.

Why the elitism? Do YOU somehow know what masonry is really all about, or the "true" message of the bible? Do you have any proof for...any...of this?



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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I am no elitist, if that is what you are asking. The bible, as with all works of a spiritual nature, never reveal any truth in their literal meanings. Anyone can find what was intended to be said if they look at what is being said from another point of view. The ark for example is the fetus and flood the amniotic fluid. The bible describes the soul's descent into matter, dissolution of the ego, dropping the body/mind complex and attaining union with God. The 7 spirits are the 7 chakras which hold the spirit in the body, the dragon is the kundalini which flows over these 7 hills of energy, etc.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Yacov
 


First, stop plagerizing the work of others. It may be anti-mason propaganda, but you should at least give credit where credit is due. Stop stealing from other people and think for yourself.

Why are you unsurprised that the VSL changes if the makeup of the lodge changes? Masonry is NOT a religion, therefore the VSL uses the religious text of whatever the membership is. Would you feel better if we just used a bible in every lodge? No, then you would feel the need to tell us that by doing so we weren't really listening to the bible and were just doing it as a meaningless symbolic gesture.

As I and others have said before, there is no authoritative source on masonry. For every single author you can find that bashes Christianity, I can find one that claims Christianity is the true foundation of the lodge.

One thing that perplexes me is that this sort of selective reading of texts is not done on any other type of institution. Take religion, for example. I could find quotes from christian "witches" that tell us Jesus is really a symbol for the Mother Goddess. If I do so, does that mean that this reflects Christianity in actuality? No? Then why do people continually pull this type of stunt on masonry?

In the final analysis, Anti-Masons do not adjust their beliefs to fit the bible, the Bible is adjusted to fit their beliefs. An anti-Mason's loyalty is never to God but to hatred. Also, please learn the definition of cult before you start throwing around terms you do not understand. Anti-Masonry is indeed a cult, masonry is a philosophy.

[edit on 29-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


No, it is your faith which tales you the Bible cannot have any literal meaning. Because it makes it more special for you. Do you have any proof for any of that? At all?



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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Trying to argue with an anti-mason is a waste of time. Anything you say "can and will be used against you in a heated argument."



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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What kind of proof would you like? I just might have some, but I also might require you to speak privately and swear an oath to me before I can provide some, or be initiated. I can say, my path has made me wealthy, at peace, influential, on a foundation of direct experience over guesswork and the faith/doubt complex etc.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


Proof would be citations from scholarly peer reviewed journals that tell us we've all been fooled into believing the Bible says what it means on face value, and that in reality we now know its all one big hidden secret message and (since you just posted this) that leads those who believe it to the path of glory, riches, etc.

Many people are wealth, at peace, influential, PERCEIVE (your not really, you just think you are) they have direct experience over faith, etc. They come from every religious path, or no religious path. You could have also made the proverbial "deal with the devil" to get all those things, either in your physical actions or in spirit.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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I think you just want to argue rather than do any fact finding about the bible.

And no, I've made no pacts in ceremonial evocations.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


No need to make pacts to make the proverbial "deal with the devil".


And your lack of ability to provide any evidence just shows you believe in what you do on faith: there is no proof that you are right. The end. After all, no one - and I mean *no one* in scholarship agrees with you. And that's fine. But don't advertise your faith as reality when its not.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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We'll start with Aleister Crowley and Yogananda. Get a copy of autobiography of a yogi and read it, it has plenty of references to bible verses from an occult point of view.

As for Crowley, let's go to hermetic.com... and read the third paragraph (1) which states "1. In the beginning doth the Magus speak Truth, and send forth Illusion and Falsehood to enslave the soul. Yet therein is the Mystery of Redemption."

This is an example of the bible. And all other religions as well. Since truth cannot be communicated, anyone trying to find the truth in speech or in writ, is deceived.

As for the bible itself, I am using it as common ground. I would much prefer to share some of my extensive privately published library, but that will come later. The bible is, quite simply, grossly outdated.

Here is some ritual elements to read:

"How the simple mason plies, tool to temple, see it rise! How we mock and scoff at them! Boaz Broken, Jachin gone, freely spoken, Jahbulon. All is overthrown, for the love of Babalon... all is a lie, although divine..." -Song of the perfect initiate.

S.B.:63 Whom have you there?
K.S.:64 A S(acred) P(rince) of R(ose) C(ross), who offers to share the burden of the I(llustrious)
K(nights) T(emplar) of the O(rder) of K(adosch) and the D(ame) C(ompanions) of the H(oly) G(raal).
S.B.: Who vouches that he is properly prepared?
(The Knight or Dame who can do so, replies.)
Admit him in due form.
(K.S. directs him to t(rample) and s(pit) on the c(ross).)
S.B.: Behold the tomb of your G(rand) M(aster), J(acobus) B(urgundus) M(olensis). Swear to break the
bondage of vulgar error.
Cand.: I swear, etc.
C.B.: Swear unconditional and unswerving obedience to the G(rand) M(aster) B(aphomet).
Cand.: I swear, etc.

On the 13th day of October 1307 the Grand Master of the Temple Jacobus Burgundus Molensis or
Jacques de Bourg Molay and many of his brethren were arrested through the treachery of two apostate
brethren (They appear) who inspired the Pope Clement V and Philip le Bel King of France to crush the
Order. These tyrants stripped him of all the signs of his high rank (done by Pope and King) and had him
bound hand and foot (done by familiars) and cast into prison on a charge of heresy and immorality; and
indeed our Master was sworn to bring Light and Freedom in to those ages of ignorance and slavery.
Here he was put to the torture (Cord round Can.’s forehead until he screams) but not all the ingenuity of
the tormentors could cause him to utter a cry of pain, much less to recant.
On the 14th day of March 1314, he was bound to a stake surrounded by combustible materials, and the
torch of the executioner applied.
(Done.)

With his last words he invoked vengeance on his murderers, who died within a year and a day, as you
shall do if you ally yourself with tyranny and superstition.
(Can. released.)
Sir Knight, roll on the ground these emblems, and cry: ‘Down with tyranny! Down with superstition!’

Noble Sir Knight, I now re-invest you with the Insignia of Our Order. This Ring of Profession is always
to be worn on the right thumb. Its inscription V.D.C.A. stands for Vult Deus Sanctum Amorem, and for
certain other words which will one day be communicated to you.
This Eagle is that of Frederick of Prussia, who first shook the power of the Papacy. The insignia are
black, particularly the mantle, which though white within, a symbol of our light and purity, shews that
we must still walk in a cloak of darkness and secrecy; for Light and Freedom are not fully ours.
Yet in secret we may still worship as we will.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by niteipvvvvv
We'll start with Aleister Crowley and Yogananda. Get a copy of autobiography of a yogi and read it, it has plenty of references to bible verses from an occult point of view.


We don't even have to go any further past this point. Since when were those two world authorities on religion and truth? They are not. You just think they are because they advocate for a faith you believe in. Since the rest of your post follows from this starting point, none of it is valid. They have no more of a strange-hold on truth than anyone else. Their belief and hope for a secret world of mysteries does not equal reality.

I asked for peer reviewed academic articles - where are they?

Oh, and they are also NOT authorities on masonry. I could also publish a book about masonry saying the exact opposite - in fact, many have.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 04:02 PM
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Who cares.


Masonry is boring.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


Apparently you care, since you seem to think you know what masonry is "really" about.
Changing stances when asked for proof, are we? How typical...


[edit on 29-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:44 PM
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Not at all. I stated from the start, that my interpretation of Hiram Abiff was not that of freemasonry.

But if you don't want to acknowledge other sources, nor come speak in private, I can offer you nothing.

You waste your words in trying to turn me back on myself. I have no conscience in any form soever, good and evil, high and low, right and wrong, have no meaning to me. Anyone still stuck in these concepts can be limited in their actions in any given situation by their own mind.

See my post here:

www.lodgeroomuk.net...



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by niteipvvvvv
Not at all. I stated from the start, that my interpretation of Hiram Abiff was not that of freemasonry.

But if you don't want to acknowledge other sources, nor come speak in private, I can offer you nothing.

You waste your words in trying to turn me back on myself. I have no conscience in any form soever, good and evil, high and low, right and wrong, have no meaning to me. Anyone still stuck in these concepts can be limited in their actions in any given situation by their own mind.

See my post here:

www.lodgeroomuk.net...


In other words, you're a troll. Can you give a valid reason why anyone should engage you other than to feed your ego?





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