“The Americans are treating us like animals."

Yep, this demonstrates why US should pull out from Iraq ASAP.

what, sarcasm illustrates why we should get out? Try explaining that one to me.

"Yep, this demonstrates why US should pull out from Iraq ASAP"

U.S = Penis
Iraq = Vagina
Democracy = Orgasm

THEYVE ALREADY STARTED, PULLING OUT WOULD BE STUPID.

good point, but these people still won't understand. they're gonna say "But(whine)it's so wrong(sniffle) for the US(wipes tear from eye) to be in Iraq(whimper)." But in the end they will thank us for doing what they couldn't.

Medic,You always like to group people into Pro-war (cans) and Anti-war (aren't capable of)

Funny how it doesn't fit with Bush (runaway) and Kerry (decorated war hero)

Also please remember that when conscription has been necessary during 2 world wars us normal citizens have aquitted themselves very well.You do not know who you are corresponding with.Assume nothing.

Get off your high horse.You are not special.You are just there.

I guess you need to be told that you are THE man.

Whereas you should understand that you are only A man.

A little less parade ground macho talk would be greatly appreciated.

Though your insights are respected and appreciated.

These are my views and my views only.

Yes they are in fact your views. I can respect them but not appreciate them. I feel the way I do and post like I do because of what i see. Perception is everything. I take what I see at face value, because this isn't talking and there is no tone to base feelings or moods on. And no i'm not on any "high horse", nor do I need to be told that i'm "the man". These are your excuses for attacking me instead of what i said or the topic. Nothing you posted deals with the topic in any way. So where'd it get you exactly? And the moderators are always saying "stay in the subject, no flaming". So where are you coming from, attacking me? Especially when you're a authority here? Nice one. obviously the title of super moderator doesn't entail super judgement. Have a good day.

What is to understand?

The war was based on lies. If the only reason left for war was the moral reason then there is no valid reason.

Why should I thank you? You act as if it were your decision. It was not. You will thank US when your leaders can no longer ignore our concerns, and you get to come home.

Believe it or not the anti-war crowd cares more about you than your leaders do. They have no support for you. Only for what you are doing. You are but a pawn in a much larger game.

I do not believe that anyone(other than a sadist) would rather be on occupational duty in Iraq than back home in America safe with their families.

No security was gained from the invasion. It only created a greater threat. If you somehow think that we are now safer you should think again from the perspective of those you fear so much.

You only provide them with the justification needed to attack us again. None of the good claimed has become reality. It is all talk until it is done. In the mean time we are the invaders, and occupiers.

The biggest mistake in your line of thinking is that you think they believe what you are saying.

Silliness.

They have no trust, or love for us, and for good reason. Look at everything we have done to them over the years. Now we have conqured their nation.

Liberation would mean elections. Why not next week?

Why not next month?

Is Afghanistan an example of what they should expect?

Two years later no sign of a representative government in their future. This is what they notice.

Man, i donno what do you want me to say? Put your self in my position. Your over here in this black hole place, you risk your life everyday. I've watched people die here. No BS. I really have. And every day you see and hear people telling you that this is all for nothing, and this chapter in your life was a waste. It's not what we like to hear. Just cause i'm a soldier, doesn't mean I'm not sensitive about things. Understand none of us fight for bush. We fight for each other. These people are my brothers. I understand what your saying though. and thankyou for not attacking me as a person.

I don't hate you, or any of the soldiers. I don't hate America, or Americans.

I understand that you are only doing your 'Job'. I understand that you have no choice other than to refuse, and then go to jail.

What I am against is the situation, and we were led to this by lies, and deceptions.

What will they do next if no one says anything?

Do you reward the child that spits on you? Do you thank the one that steals from you?

Failure to speak out against what is wrong is endorsement of them and will only lead to greater wrongs.

Silence is cowardess, and blind acceptance is ignorance.

We need more brave, and aware people in America. As it is now the nation is ruled by the TV.

A benevolent dictatorship is still a dictatorship. The parallels to the rise of Nazi Germany cannot be ignored. All the same things are happening now, and many of the quotes have been recycled, and repeated.

Remember what the Nazi's were charged with at their war crimes trial:

Conspiracy to wage agressive war. This is the greatest crime of all.

Remember what the people of Germany were accused of:

Saying nothing to stop it.

I will not be held guilty for this. I will not enable the crimes though cowardess, or ignorance, or silence.

BTW: I have no anger towards you, only sympathy. You are doing the best you can under the situation. Keep up your moral standards. They protect you more than any weapon.

Sorry to say this guys, but the ONLY reason congress allowed Bush to go to Iraq was based on the threat of weapons of mass destruction that Saddam supposedly had. We werent going in to "liberate the Iraqis" or to save anyone. And now of course we will say that to justify the war since it has turned up that there are no weapons and the whole war was based on a lie. It has always been about the oil.

WMD's were the focus and one of the major justifications, but the other justifications, for which many never deem to mention, were many.

BTW, hows that "OIL" benefitting you today?
Definitely not in the same way that it benefitted a 270+ individuals, eh?


regards
seekerof

What were these "many" justifications? Congress allowed Bush to go in for the sole reason that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and could use them against us...that was THE reason.

As for oil, no its not benefitting us right now, but we are in the process of securing (stealing) it. Even when we do take the oil, profits will most likely go to the government, theres no reason we would see any price differences just because they have more of it.

I always thought it was over oil currency to keep our economy from sinking faster. We did already go in and switch Iraq's oil pricing from euros to U.S. dollars. The oil that is there is just icing on the cake.

Please enlighten us to how 'securing' equates to "stealing".

As to your pondering of the "other" reasonings for war....a 'search', or taking the time to look/research, of and on the pretext reasons for war will identify those "other" unmentioned reasons.......


regards
seekerof

WMD's were the focus and one of the major justifications, but the other justifications, for which many never deem to mention, were many.

Were it not for the lies about WMD the people would not have agreed to the war. It was not a large majority, and most supporters were victims of the chicken little effect. The remaining reasons are moot if we do not soon deliver on the promises of liberty.

BTW, hows that "OIL" benefitting you today?

There is no benefit to me, or anyone else today. Gas costs more now than before the invasion.

I think that few have really considered the oil issue.

Are we going to steal the oil from these people? Must the richest nation on earth steal from those who have little?

Would it be us stealing it, or the corporations?

Will they be giving out free gas after they steal this oil, or will the let the market determine prices?

Will they give raises to their employees, or will they only seek to cut these costs?

Will these monies be declared, and end up lining the pockets of the investors, or will the executives keep it for themselves.

If anyone thinks that we will somehow get some of the oil you should remember the nature of oil companies.

Our boys are dying, or security is degraded, and we get nothing other than the bill in the form of debt laid on the heads of ourselves, and the future generations.

We gain nothing, and have to pay all the costs, and penalties.

Even if they were giving out free gas that was made with oild stolen from Iraq would you accept it?

I would not. It would be the same as me stealing, and it would put the weight of the dead souls on my head.

I do not want their blood oil. I can buy my own. In the end that is much cheaper that way.

[Edited on 31-1-2004 by ArchAngel]

Great anti-war reasoning speech Arch...really.

All-in-all though, you would buy "that" OIL....cause reasoning dictates that the gas and oil products made from the "blood" won Iraqi OIL would not be labeled "Stolen or liberated from Iraq".

You have no means and ways of ascertaining if "that OIL is from Iraq or Kuwait or from any other place that the US gets OIL from. Remember that the next time you goto the pump, ok?


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 31-1-2004 by Seekerof]

All-in-all though, you would buy "that" OIL....cause reasoning dictates that the gas and oil products made from the "blood" won Iraqi OIL would not be labeled "Stolen or liberated from Iraq".

Of course I have no control over where the oil came from that ends up as gas in my car. If it were labled I would not buy any that was stolen no matter the price. I will pay for every drop.

I will not accept blood oil as a payoff for being silent. I will not endorse theft.

Ok...WTF are you talking about? Sure, there were many other reasons for us to be pissed off or to dislike saddam and increase tension, but the ONLY reason congress saw as fit to justify going to war with Saddam was Weapons of Mass Destruction. They dont give a damn about Iraqi people at all.

How does stealing equate to securing? Well, if you knew the first thing about this ILLEGAL war which you insistently defend, you would see that this is IRAQ'S OIL, NOT U.S. OIL. Therefore by "securing" it for or own use, it is "stealing" it from Iraq. Sorry you couldn't put 2 and 2 together there.

Many other countries and people around the world HATE Bush, our media never shows the many hundreds of thousands of people participating in protests AGAINST Bush such as in London when they tore down the statue of him. You have been stubborn in your ways to defend this WMD crock of #, and now even Bush is backing out of his ridiculous claims, leaving us with an unjustified war.

U.S. imperialism is going to be the death of us, we cant afford to keep bullying other countries around. Russia has sent disapproval of the war, and they are now having a major nuclear exercise, basically a simulation of a nuclear strike against the United States as a warning because they can see the growing threat and they are not going to be pushed around like so many others.

All you Bush and war supporters are proud to call yourselves "patriots" and say that you are simply supporting your country...wait until about 10 years from now, that is if we arent all gone from nuclear war, see then what people will be remembering about Bush.

Again, seems that 270+ individuals and their respective affiliations had NO problem accepting that "blood" OIL....



regards
seekerof

Nice rebuttal there...guess you couldnt come up with an intelligent response.