azazel dudael desert

hello
first time posting,iam interested in the fallen angels.read that azazel was cast down into desert of dudael,anyone have links or info were this desert may be?

This tradition came from a Muslim source, right? I've heavily studied my own religion-Christianity, and this is the first time I've ever heard about this.

i don't think so but mabey,i know from what i read in the book of enoch

reply to post by teraform


OK, that's Jewish Apocrypha. I don't know much about that stuff, the mainstream religious opinion is that stuff was not divinely inspired.

Originally posted by teraform
hello
first time posting,iam interested in the fallen angels.read that azazel was cast down into desert of dudael,anyone have links or info were this desert may be?

Perhaps you would want to read the Book of Enoch.

I am a Christian who has read bible thru a couple times. I have also read Book of Enoch. There is quite a bit in it on fallen angles if I recall. I don't remember the one you specifically mention though. Those books of apocrypha were omitted for reasons we(or at least I) do not really know. To the books of the apocrypha which were omitted mainstream Christians would say you have to trust the "Holy Spirit". Is there truth in some of these books..maybe. I don't think there is much that would help us become more Christ-like though. A lot of topics such as fallen angels could distract many.

Originally posted by teraform
first time posting,iam interested in the fallen angels.read that azazel was cast down into desert of dudael,anyone have links or info were this desert may be?

Arizona & New Mexico!



It sure gets hotter than hell here and there is an abundance of things that poke, sting, bite, and hiss - both animal and vegetable!

Plus Great Horned Lizards!!

variant spellings "Azael" "Aziel" and "Asiel.
Or Ariel as I see it

Dudael I view more so as a metaphor. Not sure the Hebrew word off hand but I would bet it translates to wilderness or apart from G-d, Lacking G-d's presence. However I question that as all the variants of the angels name in Hebrew translate to a variant of either Flame of G-d, Lion of g-d, etc. I suppose the angel's actions got him to the land of wilderness. As the Angel showed men how to make swords and use them amongst other creations that didn't come about naturally but by negative spirit.

Note the Beth Hadudo is the Dudael mentioned below.
MISHNA: The high-priest was told: "The goat has reached the desert." How was the fact known? Watches were stationed on high towers [meaning doubtful], who lifted up flags [to give signals]. Said R. Jehudah: They could have excellent evidence [by calculating the time]. From Jerusalem to Beth Hadudo was three miles. The prominent men had walked one mile, went back one mile, and had tarried as long as a mile is

p. 97

gone over. Thus they could calculate that the he-goat had reached the desert.

Further research you may want would be in the Mishna and the Talmud. Those will hole greatest details. If you are interest in angel I highly suggest:
A Gathering of Angels by Morris B. Margolies
(Angels in Jewish Life and Literature)

Originally posted by teraform
hello
first time posting,iam interested in the fallen angels.read that azazel was cast down into desert of dudael,anyone have links or info were this desert may be?

The "story" goes that he was one of the fallen ones in Genesis ,those Angels who chose women over God's Kingdom.As you know there are a lot of different theories over those sons of Man whom chose the women,some believe they were not angels and others do believe and that is where there "Nephillim" pops up.

Anyway it is said that Azazel was one of +-200 fallen angels that is spoken of in Genesis.


Enoch does not fall in The Apocrypha ....it's not in my Book ,afaik Enoch originates from The Dead Sea Scrolls.

1 ENOCH 8
1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all
2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they
3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways.

We need to be extremely careful what and how we read as we have been "out" of the game for 100's of years,only if we had the savvy of 2000 years ago we would know now ,wouldn't we?

Cheers!

Here is a post I made not too long ago, concerning the name Azazel and its associated meaning/metaphor/archetype.

thanks everyone,for the information

This is my first time posting here. I have the book of Enoch, it says that it's original manuscript was Ethiopic, and was written around 4000 BCE. The west discovered it in 1770s and it has been retranslated several times sinse. The Dead Sea scrolls have fragments of the book, which still shows the importance of the book at the time the scrolls were hidden. It also says that it was a part of the Bible for over 500 years. The book I have is by Ronald K. Brown. I personally find it very interesting and faith strengthening. But like the tone set here in some of the postings, it probably isn't for everyone.

Originally posted by teraform
hello
first time posting,iam interested in the fallen angels.read that azazel was cast down into desert of dudael,anyone have links or info were this desert may be?

Dudael means Great Desert or Fiery Caldron. Some speculate that it can be Negev in Israel...

Originally posted by mentalempire
This tradition came from a Muslim source, right?

No, it's 1st Enoch, a Hebrew book Jesus seams to base most of his end time teachings on. The Son of Man appears in this book and hell is described.

reply to post by WhiteFeather


Hello WhiteFeather,
I also have Ronald K Brown's edited version of 1 Enoch.
I believe Enoch is Scripture.

For others: In the OT, on the Day of Atonement, the goat who was chosen to have the sins and iniquities laid on him by laying on of hands and confession of the sins and iniquities of the nation, by the high priest, was chosen by lot, "for Azazel", and then the goat was sent away, into the wilderness "To Azazel" with those sins and iniquities.

For some reason, the AV translates "Azazel" as "scapegoat", from the Hebrew to the English, but that obscures the purpose for the type and shadow of Jesus' work of redemption, when His soul had all the sins and iniquities of the entire lot of Adamkind ever born or to be born, laid on Him, and He was "sent away", and departed, bearing those sins and iniquities, to give them "to Azazel", who is bound in Dudael and to whom the Great Glory told Enoch to write: "to Azazel ascribe/give all sin". Azazel will suffer the torments of the lake of fire forever and forever, then, taking the blame forever for all those sins of whoever in Adam will call on the name of the LORD Jesus and be saved from their guilt by having their sins borne by Jesus, away.





[edit on 3-5-2008 by Psalm50]

[edit on 3-5-2008 by Psalm50]

reply to post by teraform
Be Very careful in the use of this name. I respect your question but you know not of this. Let it go! Let it go!

reply to post by teraform


Sounds like an interesting topic. About all I know about Azazel I learned from the Denzel Washinton movie "Fallen" which is fiction of course, but a cool movie nonetheless.

[edit on 5/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by WhiteFeather
But like the tone set here in some of the postings, it probably isn't for everyone.

If these scriptures were not hidden from us we would have been better equipped to handle these things, demons or fallen ones.

Man chose to hid this from us so we can become weaker against attack from the spiritual realm, which is my opinion. My opinion also have a flaw though. What if God knew we could not handle all the "information" and by that put the Dead Sea Scrolls "to rest" for time until need be. On the other hand The Apocrypha was all part of the Bible until few 100 years ago and it got "lost" in translation. With every updated version of the Bible we seem to lose extremely valuable information.

The tone you picked up is probably correct due to that not all can handle the truth, a lot cannot handle the Bible alone. As you know the Scrolls and Apocrypha are much more detailed and do get straight to certain points, eg: the question from the OP. The interesting parts in the Apocrypha about Death lashing out at satan for bringing Jesus to it's gate, yet another mind boggle it is as Death (whatever/whoever it is) are not one bit scared of satan and clearly satan not in charge evil, maybe just on earth though, before death, the living -- tempting us who walk earth, but after we die?

When studying these scriptures we need to be careful and ready, awake, as something does not want us to know all truth. If we study them with God by side we are safe as we would know we have permission on His terms. Studying them with no back up we are taking a risk.

I would say study them but do so if you are all good in faith so we do not fall or misinterpret the scriptures, and bringing up theories that goes against that of God's true word.

Cheerio!

[edit on 5/4/2008 by qonone]

Originally posted by qonone
n the other hand The Apocrypha was all part of the Bible until few 100 years ago and it got "lost" in translation. With every updated version of the Bible we seem to lose extremely valuable information.

Flawed and utter lies. The bible today is a much better translation than let's say the Latin Vulgate held by the Catholics as the word of God for centuries and a millennium. Today's bibles are based on source texts from the first century AD in Greek and Hebrew from a few hundred years BC mostly. Some Aramaic included. The Apocrypha of the NT and the Pseudepigrapha of the OT has never been part of the Bible. And the Bibles we have today aren't translated from modern texts, but Hebrew and Greek sources dating back to as far back as we get. Nothing is lost in translation. What's lost is people's understanding of basic words and concepts. For that is what the Word is all about: Words and Concepts.

[edit on 6/5/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by qonone

Originally posted by WhiteFeather
But like the tone set here in some of the postings, it probably isn't for everyone.

If these scriptures were not hidden from us we would have been better equipped to handle these things, demons or fallen ones.

[edit on 5/4/2008 by qonone]

1 Enoch was never hidden nor banned in the Ethiopian Coptic Church. It was kept as part or their Canon list from the beginning of the NT Church there. Copies were gor from the Ethiopia Church in the late 1700's and brought back to England, where 1 Enoch was then translated to English in the early 1800's.


Also, early Church writers, like Barnabas [the Barnabas of the NT] and Clement quoted Enoch and even called it Scripture. Of course, Jude also quoted Enoch, but also the author of Hebrews, James, Peter, and Paul quoted from 1 Enoch, as Jesus did.