Undetected CHINESE submarine pops up during US Navy Exercise

reply to post by Rockpuck


How on earth could US sank a boat (submarine or surface) just beacause it gets close to a carrier? No international treaty allows that kind of a right, just to protect a warship. It would have been an act of war and and an illegal one...

reply to post by Copernicus


Far to long Us has paid for technology to be on the top. We are not invincable,why is everyone so surprised. Russia just tore up the cold war peace treaty are china and russia going to ally we are so screwed.

I've seen at least one other thread on this subject. Regardless, althought sub tracking is highly classified. Supposedly, US subs are the quietest. In every ocean are thousands of listening devices called sonobouys. I knew several who were on nuclear subs and said they always new location of all "Soviet" subs. If he was correct maybe they should also be aware of all chinese subs. I would say a depth charge warning might be in order due to strategic value of a carrier..

reply to post by BlackProjects


That is a bold statement. You understand and can verify technologies utilized by other nations?

I don't believe there is any real beef between the US and China. Can you imagine back in the day owning products that said Made In The U.S.S.R. If the threat was real we wouldn't be pumping the enemies war chest full of money, or would we?

Oh wait... What fuels the war in Afghanistan? Poppies do. Since the American invasion, poppy cultivation increased.

Originally posted by khunmoon

This is deja-vu grand scale. *THIS "NEWS" IS DISINFO*

Exactly khunmoon..
I remember that the same class had been reported doing the same thing with the same exercise parameters(Japanese and Americans).
No dates are mentioned and nothing specific.
I was just going to ask if there were specific dates for this 'incident'.

Good one khunmoon.

Originally posted by seawolf197
Back in the 1980's The USS Kittyhawk (CV-63) actually ran over a Russian Submarine. The story was always "How could you not know it was there?" I
was there, and I was in a position to know exactly how that happened.

Please do share if its not classified.

The chances of that sub even leaving port without half the US fleet knowing exactly who the Skipper was would be close to zero.
Go Navy!

And here people we have the other extreme..

Please do share info supporting this as well, because others(you know other countries on this planet) are privy to information that is quite the contrary. One might even go to the extent of saying that USN vessels have been tailed
(in a purely non-aggressive fashion to my knowledge at least) without them ever really knowing it. Do I have proof?
If I did it wouldn't be prudent to share it anyways.
Nonetheless, it suffices to say that I totally disagree with you.

I was a mechanic that worked the flight deck and was attached to VS-38 the fixed wing S-3A Viking ASW squadron attached to the Kitty Hawk when this incident happened. We were in hot contact with a soviet sub for at least a day or two maybe more. and had one to two of the 10 aircraft in the air during most of it. About 3 hour or so prior to the collision all fights where called off for all squadrons aboard the Kitty Hawk. With the last plane recovering about 2 hours prior. I believe H-3 Helo's were still the air, but not sure if they were using dip sonar. I was working during the incident. The ship had very quick and noticable vibration which felt like is was toward the bow on starboard side. With having been in collisions before. I knew we hit something and was waiting for General Quarters to be called, which never happened. Around 10 minutes afterwards the Captain of the ship called over the ship's loud speaker for anyone on sponsons, or on watch, or dumping trash or that may have seen something to report to the captains bridge imidiately and that they were not in any kind of trouble. When flight ops started my squadron did make contact and offered assistance to the sub that was on the surface and noticably damaged, which from what I was told was declined, they were in tow back to Vladiavostok, and we went back to Subic Bay for a week of minor repairs and continued on with our deployment which was just starting.

but in other news :

they broke through a very comprehensive screen. They did it deliberately to send a message that Russian subs could still breach the US ASW system. May 29 1985. The Group was led by Shevchenko. The US worked out that it wasn't so much a deficiency in systems, but the fact that there were natural anomalies that the Russians knew how to manipulate. The Russians were making a point and they were successful. The US eventually got support from Woods Hole and Harvard to develop a counter called HOPS. But in real terms, the Russians were in a position to launch if it had gone to a war situation. One of the 5 remained undetected, all others were periodically identified. In one instance however, the Russians tagged a US SSN for 5 days straight. The operation was considered a success due to a number of reasons: - 1, they managed to get all US and NATO assets in region to surge - which is what they wanted as they were also running ferrets - 2, they got into a firing position before US forces could do anything - 3, it gave them renewed confidence that the Victors were a potent platform remember this is at the peak of the cold war when cat and mouse was pretty much for real, so everyone was "trying". They even managed to avoid RN hunter killer teams who they regarded as the more capable of the ASW teams. Schevchenko actually commented that he feared Royal Navy ASW teams more than SOSUS. - so they were ecstatic.

info is out there if you know where to look


The primary role of the brits during the cold war was ASW - the carriers are really ASW support carriers and most the fleet are `multi role` frigates - with tails

and as for ` they cannot leave port without the navy knowing` yes that might be true - as the russians know exaclty when the USN sail - but once there in the deep its a totally new game , and ask the USN about losing an AIP diesel boat from in front of an improved 688

battery boats are the quiestest thing in the ocean.

[edit on 12/11/07 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
There is nothing that they could do about it till the sub took a hostile posture,

Is that how the kept the Soviet Subs away for so many decades? Can you really allow enemy subs to come within striking distance and hope that the same is not happening in every ocean in preparation for a first strike? There is a reason planes, ships and submarines are 'turned back' by various means that ranges from escorting them out of area or 'accidental' collisions.

I highly doubt that our subs protecting the fleet did not see it.

Why do you think they did?

They were more than likely followed the whole time by a LA boat ready to shoot.

Maybe they were but why would it just allow the Chinese submarines to approach 'so close' ( and in many previous exercises dozens of soviet and other foreign ships did get close enough) when you have so much at risk ?

I remember a time when Russia needed a warning so our navy pinged every soviet sub at the same time world wide in the rear just to let them know that we had them at any time and that they needed to back off.

That is as far as i know nothing but popular mythology and i am still waiting for one of it's proponents to link me to the original source of the claim or for that matter to the logical reasoning that supposes that the US could with a hundred submarines of it's own ( and less deployed at any time ) keep track of HUNDREDS of Soviet submarines. Maybe they had at that time been able to track some BM submarines that for some reason deployed to the US coast but frankly i don't even see how it's possible in theory.

Stellar

reply to post by Daedalus3


I knew someone would be curious. OK, here you go.

March 1984 the USS KittyHawk (CV-63) was on an oversea's deployment operating in the Sea of Japan.

We had been tracking a Russian Victor Class sub for days. Also, as always, we were shadowed by an Intelligence gathering Russian AGI. (See below. This is the actual one.) (In preview post, I can't see my photo's, so I gave a link.)

Link to photo



What people don't understand about tracking (let alone finding) a sub in open waters is incredibly difficult. Then once you have contact, there is nothing you can do about it anyway. They are free to get as close as they want. It's not like your are tracking them to get a fire solution, you are maintaning contact. Well, that's the game. They try to find ways to hide, and we watch how they do it. Sometimes they actually do find a way to hide. No big secret here.

In the case of the KittyHawk, the top Brass decided to see if they could loose the AGI. How we did that is classified, but what happened is not. We made a manuver that required a 90 degree turn. It just so happened that the Victor was testing just how close he could get at the time. Bingo.

Here is a couple of photo's I know you haven't seen before. Just remember, good men died that day. It doesn't matter what side you are on. Notice the Victor is DIW, and can't fully surface. You don't see that everyday.

Link to photo




This is a IR night shot days later after the Victor recovered, and fully surfaced.

Link to photo




Trust me. Subs just don't pop up in the middle of a task force, and you will never know the real story.

Edit for "Go Navy!"

Edit for spelling




[edit on 12-11-2007 by seawolf197]

Originally posted by Harlequin
info is out there if you know where to look

Indeed! And I have read a lot on this incident but never found counclusive information.
I was hoping that the poster could provide some 'insight' as was claimed.
And evidently he did.
My thanks..

China Sub's Rubber Coating Made It 'Invisible'

listed on this page:
greennuclearbutterfly.blogspot.com...


This is what the Russians did about 20 years ago.

You think you can go to war on the side of the US with the best
weapons.
It never happened before and never in the future.
The Banksters develop newer weapons in other countries.
Japs had the Zero, N Korea had the MIG.
And plenty of rifles.

And if the US has a better weapon like the Thompson Sub Machine
Gun in WWI. The Illuminati rule out using it. Why slaughter the enemy.

How do programmed sheeple do evil as a good when told to by evil
commanders. JFK stopping all money to the CIA would still not get
rid of the banksters.

reply to post by Bushwacked


Good reason for more military might and build up.

Fear not, banksters will come to the rescue and give us more
guns, equipment and weapons to defend ourselves.

Britain

It's funny how my uncle is the main ground weaponry administrator in BeiJing.

I'm not lying, it's the truth. I don't really know what he does but he said China is focusing mainly on tanks and antitanks on the ground. He also said that tanks are defenseless against rpg or any type of rockets :S.

reply to post by BlackProjects


Just for ur information,

Because US subs are powered by nuclear Reactors, it is impossible just to turn them off, so they are generally not as quiet as conventional, diesel/electric subs. But on the otherhand, they are able to steam for longer and have better performance, ie, they can move faster.

Also, I heard a buzz around about this story, apparently one of the sonar operators on one of the DDG's did actually pick it up, but when he reported it he was shot down by the heirachy because he was a junior operator.

Can't remember where I heard this, or if it was credible.

RAAFY

Who needs to surface to launch on a carrier? Could have been a whole lot of red faces with blood. Tit for tat. Games without frontiers. War without fears. I love the euphanisms the best. 'War games'. Military 'theatre'. I should be able to hook my xbox to it. Sigh.

Originally posted by blowfishdl
I think I owuld have fired a missile on them personally.

I think the same thing, however that would definitely cause a War with China, most likely going into a World War.

What's the big fuss?

Not a long time ago Portugal organized a NATO naval exercise close to the Azores islands (middle of the Atlantic). I do not remember which were the countries involved but the US and Portugal were there (I think the French and German were there as well).

We have a very old submarine, Barracuda (from the 50's), and that small old piece of junk manage to sneak in the US protected waters and placed it self UNDERNEATH the American carrier.

This was really the opposite of the Chinese tech. Our submarine was so small they might have confused it with a whale or something.

You may ask what can a little piece of junk do against a huge carrier... Obvious, suicide mission and explode everything !!!

And yes, the American admiral was dismissed.

[edit on 13-11-2007 by novrod]

reply to post by Anubis Kanubis


Going to war with China is like taking a knife and stabbing yourself. The interconnected economic situations would create a dual-suicide for the two nations. While war may be defiantly on the horizon, China will probably sit out any of it due to their money woes.

reply to post by Anubis Kanubis


Someone has already said it; the submarine was unlikely to have been undetected, but until it poses a threat, it can only be monitored. The media headlines, I suspect, are bigger than the actual incident.